Can't seem to shoot tight groups with the damned thing....M70 w/ VX-II 3-9. Trigger's been redone, scope just remounted. It scatters shots all over....on the 18-20th shots at 100 yds. today I finally got a reasonable 2" group. I'm sick of it and someone offered me a G for it...should I take it and get something else? I don't have any confidence in it and I don't want a gun whose barrel needs to be red hot before it is accurate.

Any opinions or experiences? Thanks, gents.

Sounds like the wife's .270 Wby, before the REBARREL.

Other than that it's got a good trigger and scope, you haven't told us anything that might help diagnose your problem. It could be something as elementary as loose action screws. I had that problem with a Sako .243 that I had owned for twenty years and knew it to be accurate. I finally thought to put a screwdriver on the action screw and found it twisted three-quarters of a turn before it even started to snug. Wood can dry out over the years; your guard screws need to be checked every year or two.

BUT . . . assuming you can't easily identify the problem, it could be just you and your luck with this rifle. I've owned a couple of rifles that wouldn't shoot for me. So I sold them to acquaintences with the stipulation that I had had trouble with them. Each of those guys said they shot just fine for them, so we're all happy.

I've been VERY fortunate to be able to get all of my double digit rifle collection to shoot quite accurately w/ one exception. Some have taken MUCH more work than others. This satisfaction has been earned and that promotes confidence. The one w/ the unpredictable streak stays in the safe and would be sold if not for how I acquired it.
If you truly love the rifle, get it worked on and/or rebarreled. If not, replace it. No confidence in the rifle will get in your head and surely bite you one way or another.

I have allways had bad luck with .270s
280s too.
If some one offerd you a grand for it, take it.
I finnaly did find a .270 that shot well.
It was an old FN, that weighed about 9 lbs...tj3006

A side note too TJ's comment, I have NEVER had a 270, that didn't shoot. The ones that didn't, I wore the barrels out. If you are shooting Nosler Ballistic Tips, 130 Grain, at somewhere between 3000/3100 fps, they shoot nice and tight. Give us more info, and we'll pick this apart, as usual.

Jerry

Hmm. After checking the screws I'd do these two step tests. You may need a friend for step two:

First I'd dry fire the rifle on an empty chamber and watch the reticule in the 'scope to see it it has a "twitch" or "quiver".

Any rifle is only as good as the sight on it. If the 'scope internally has a loose reticule it will appear that the rifle is useless.

Second I'd use ammunition of a KNOWN accuracy in someone else's 270. So that if you know that in X's rifle it shoots a 2" group it should in yours.

Are you using factory ammunition or handloads? Again try that ammunition you have been using in X's rifle that you know shoots the 2" group.

So you'll know that the problem is either the rifle and/or the ammunition!

So if YOUR ammunition is OK in his rifle and his ammunition is poor in YOUR rifle you know it is the gun.

But if his ammunition is poor in YOUR rifle and to make it worse YOUR ammunition is also poor in his rifle...well at least you've found 50% of the problem!

Causes? Check the crown. That usually is a cause of a poor group!

Finally. Are you firing TOO QUICKLY? Allow at least one minute between shots. It is easy to say but it is a sporting rifle and not a military arm.

Most especially with "feather light" or "mountain" profile barrels will start to walk the shots after the third round fired in under one minute.

Do you belong to a Rifle Club or a Rod & Gun Club? If you do, you should look around there for one of the old-timers who likes to play with accurizing factory hunting rifles. Pretty much every club has two or three of those guys who can make darned near anything shoot well.

When you have one or more of them identified, make their acquaintance and ask them all for advice/assistance. Usually one or all will be tickled to be asked, and will help you more than a bag full of less experienced folks or those experienced ones who can't actually see/shoot the rifle.

Just as encouragement, the .270 is NOT an inherently inaccurate cartridge. There are some standard go-to loads which will usually shoot pretty decently in just about any of them. Just one such load is 57.5 to 58.5 grs. H-4831 with a Hornady 130 gr. spire-point bullet seated to the cannelure, and ignited by a plain old WLR primer.

Although $1,000 is a fairly decent offer, you'd probably spend that much to get a new rifle, scope, mounts, sling, etc (unless you got a Savage).....and it might have even more problems. I wouldn't give up quite yet.

I bought a model 70 with a lovely fiddleback stock a few years ago. 2"groups were the best it could ever do.

Well, thanks for the thoughtful input....It initially had those quick-release type scope mounting screws which I hated.....when I got home from MT I took it to the LGS where I bought it and he fired it and thought that the scope was loosening after each shot. So he remounted it with Leupold mounts and back to the range I went. Even last year with Fusion and Cor-Lokt I was having trouble(all 130 gr....tried 150 gr and it was worse). Last week took it to the range with the Ballistic Silvertips 130gr and after 6 shots said this is silly. Back to the LGS, another bore sighting.....and then to the range today. Had 2 boxes of Fusion but only shot the box of Cor-Lokt.

Nothing is loose as far as I can tell.....I can tell you this though...if I can't get this fixed ASAP this gun is NOT coming back to MT with me this year.

I figure since the last group it shot was reasonable, I'll try once more with a cold barrel....if it's off....bye, bye. Too bad because I love the lines and feel of the featherweight, especially the forestock.

And yes, I do belong to a gun club.....but it's a barren wasteland and rarely is anyone even seen there.

I never said the .270 was not an acurate cartridge. I just said I had bad luck with it. For a long time. till I finally bought one that shot well.
Also, I must say that enfield spares sugjestion that if ammo shoots 2 inches in one rifle should shoot 2 inches in another is contrary to my experience.
I have 3 , .308s and each is accurate with ammo it likes, But Each has it's own preference,
same with my 2 .257 Roberts.
I will try the .270 again one day...tj3006

The 270 not an accurate cartridge, BS! I have a 94 win Mod 70 that puts three in one hole at 100 with 130 gr anything. 150's give me a 3/4" group with anything.

Lets start with a few basic questions. What year or production is your 270 (modern, classic, pushfeed or pre-64). Wood or synthetic stock. Are there any abonormalities on the fired cases?

John

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:
The 270 not an accurate cartridge, BS! I have a 94 win Mod 70 that puts three in one hole at 100 with 130 gr anything. 150's give me a 3/4" group with anything.

Lets start with a few basic questions. What year or production is your 270 (modern, classic, pushfeed or pre-64). Wood or synthetic stock. Are there any abonormalities on the fired cases?

John

Bought it new 3 years ago or so, just as the New Haven plant was closing....It's a classic featherweight. No abnormal marks on the cases. SS barrel, wood stock.

More info, more info. Good grief, what have you done to try correcting the problem? Do you reload? What size groups? I'm in the ".270's are generally accurate" crowd too. Barrel touching? In a 3 shot sequence, what happens? All 3 spread out? 2 close & 1 out? How do you KNOW the scope is good? Do you wait for the barrel to cool before taking the next shot? I've had fits with rifles in the past that wouldn't group. I got into a "logic circle" with a rifle that wouldn't shoot. Both my rifle AND scope were off and I kept going back to the rifle. This was after I swapped the scope for a known good one but still had problems. Turned out the scope needed factory repair too. Do you reload??? If so, I'd recommend you go to the Sierra manual and load up their most accurate load using their bullet in your favorite weight. Load to their specs. That should perform quite well.
I don't believe for a moment that the rifle won't shoot. Wish I had that thing to look at & work with. Don't give up.
Bear in Fairbanks

I'm with Big Bore, 270's not accurate, BSxBS. I have a push feed Model 70, and it shoots lights out. Also a 700 Sendero, which I use for a long range P-Dog gun exceptionaly accurate.

Jerry

Thoughts.

Though not my favorite calibre the ones I have/had were all reasonably accurate.

1.) Featherweight barrels tend to heat up more quickly.

2.) Bedding issues and barrel contact could be involved.

3.) Crown could be bad.

4.) Scope could be bad.

Those are the simple fixes.

If none the above are found rather than going the whole nine yards --sell or trade -- and move on.

(I handload for tooo many calibres, however, a factory rifle that does not shoot reasonably with factory ammo has a very short life expectancy in my safe,)

( As to your club--Hope you're not talking about the Grafton Club, it was an active place with grand folks when I was a member in the 90's.)

Did you buy it new or used? One to check is the crown of the muzzle. If it is damaged it never will shoot well. I had one like that and after it was recrowned it shoot 3/4" groups.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:


Bought it new 3 years ago or so, just as the New Haven plant was closing ....It's a classic featherweight. No abnormal marks on the cases. SS barrel, wood stock.

There have been a bunch of horror stories about guns made by disgruntled Winchester employees about to be unemployed.

Didn't I read that those guns used some sort of putty as bedding compound?

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
A side note too TJ's comment, I have NEVER had a 270, that didn't shoot. The ones that didn't, I wore the barrels out. If you are shooting Nosler Ballistic Tips, 130 Grain, at somewhere between 3000/3100 fps, they shoot nice and tight. Give us more info, and we'll pick this apart, as usual.

Jerry

I've had 2 .270 and both of them are in agreement with the quote.

Try using sand bags and don't hold it real tight
and if its going to shoot accurately it will under those rules.

Check the crown, check the bedding, clean the bore.You might try a pressure pad and see if it likes a little pressure. Not all factory guns shoot under 2". Try several kinds of factory ammo, if you don't handload.

Back in the 1970's I shot a Remmington 700 in 270 caliber.
I used the same load for the weight bullets:
130, 150 and, the now discontinued 170 grain bullets.
My load was 56.0 grains of H-4831.
I was never able to get a group smaller than 3/8 inch.

Assuming the problems are with the rifle, have you had someone else shoot the rifle, there is a whole laundry list of things you can do to correct the problems and you may still end up with the frustration of a rifle that has problems that will require gunshop time($$$)to correct. Unless you like to tinker with the thing, why not just write it off as a dog that won't shoot and get rid of it.

By the way, more often than not, when you dry fire and the cross hairs wiggle when you pull the trigger, the wiggle is you not the scope.

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:
The 270 not an accurate cartridge, BS! I have a 94 win Mod 70 that puts three in one hole at 100 with 130 gr anything. 150's give me a 3/4" group with anything.

Lets start with a few basic questions. What year or production is your 270 (modern, classic, pushfeed or pre-64). Wood or synthetic stock. Are there any abonormalities on the fired cases?

John

Bought it new 3 years ago or so, just as the New Haven plant was closing....It's a classic featherweight. No abnormal marks on the cases. SS barrel, wood stock.

Featherweights (classics) are designed to have a forend contact point of about 1" or so. The ones I seen come from the factory had a wide barrel channel at the forend tip which caused the barrel to settle at a different place each shot. Tell tale will show two distinct groups, one on the left, one on the right, randomly placed. Take a look at the bedding contact, make sure that it is even across the recoil lug (assuming that its there).

John

You might try IMR-4064 about 46-47 grs if everything is up to snuff.Good Luck

Shots 18-20 started to tighten up? Maybe the barrel shoots better fouled. Try this. Shoot another batch through it before you give it a thorough scrubbing. Some factory barrels do not come into their own until some copper is laid down in them.

I'm of the .270 accurate crowd. I have never owned one or built one that didn't shoot sub-MOA. When someone brings me a rifle that doesn't shoot for them I check the following;
1. The scope - I would say that 50% of the time that is where the problem lies. Bad mounts, bad rings, or bad scope. Put a known good scope on to start.
2. The crown - It may look OK to the naked eye. Recrowning has saved a lot of guns. It takes very little to cause the scatter you seem to be getting.
3. Bed the stock - I have found pillar bedding to fix the problem if 1 & 2 are good. The fact that it shoots better hot says it's loose and moving in the bedding. Tightening the screws beyond reason won't help if the bedding is poor but can ruin the stock.

Wish I could get my hands on it as I would love to fix it. Good Luck......Tom

I think I am being missunderstood.
I never said the te .270 was not accurate.
It is very qaccurate.
But I bought 2 remingtons that shot poorly, and then I bought a pre 64 featherweight with a canjar trigger, It shoot poorly too.
I put a pack nor barrel on it. No improvment.
A rimrock stock. No improvment.
As I said bad luck.
I have 2 frends with .270s that shoot great, and so did the FN I had.
But If somebody offerd me a fair price for a rifle that had dissapoited me, I would sell it.
in this case, I might go out and get another .270...tj3006

First thing to do is swap out the scope. If it still shoots like crap, I would either take it to a smith for inspection, or send it down the road.

I think I lost most of my hair dicking with a Ruger #1 that shot like crap. Finally sold that piece of shit.

Good luck.

First off, A guy offers you a K for it.....?, secondly, I was trawling through a local gunstore's second hand rifle shelving& spotted a badly knocked about Sako Finnbear .270, serious scarring on the last three inches of blued barrel, on further examination I found it had a busted ejector blade, but I like lost causes!, so we got wed & I shot with it, a lot!, absolute crap!, had a look through a bore scope at a Scots gunsmith's, He decided that it was very badly fouled, (I agreed), he then produces something called Wipeout & gives it a good session while I was in Arran with another rifle, I picked up the Sako on my return trip home, re-crowned with the woodwork relieved, it's now shooting Nosler partions 130gn over Ramshot Magnum & will reliably take out clay pigeons on sticks at 600yds, not bad for something that looked like it had a 4x4 over it, So do a bit of in depth work with yours I reckon there's a tack driver just trying to get out!

I'm one of those old timers at the range who like to mess around with "accuracy" issues. Before anything else I lift the barrel and action up by shimming at the front & back action screws until everything is free floated (about 1/32 inch will do). While out of the wood I like to smooth out the trigger - a great negative if not smooth to accuracy). Pick 3 bullet wgths for instance one as light as you can go for the calibre, one as high as you can go and one in between. Off to the range - free floating lets you know if anything is stressing the works anywhere if accuracy improves your on the right track. The bullet wght test tell you what the gun prefers - I usually do 3 / 5 groups at 100 yds. A cheap and easy place to start almost anyone can do - you get the drift, FWIW --- John303.

Just wanted to give a bit of follow-up....took it back to the range and fired reasonable groups (about 2" or so) that got worse with the third group of 3. I'm dumping it.....guy who offered me a grand for it already bought the same gun new so I guess I'm stuck with a trade-in deal.

Since I only use the gun out west, I'm looking at a Tikka T3 300wsm with a 4.5-14. Thought about getting a Sako but my buddy who works at Scheels in Billings said every gun guy in the store loves the Tikkas. Since I have a .243 and a .35 I figure the cal to get is that 300wsm or winmag. Right choice?

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:


Bought it new 3 years ago or so, just as the New Haven plant was closing ....It's a classic featherweight. No abnormal marks on the cases. SS barrel, wood stock.

There have been a bunch of horror stories about guns made by disgruntled Winchester employees about to be unemployed.

Didn't I read that those guns used some sort of putty as bedding compound?

Exactly!!! The bedding compound used at the Winchester factory looked a lot to me like
"hot melt glue".

A friend had a 7mm-08 with the same problem. I
dug out ALL the existing bedding crap and rebedded with acraglas gel.

This did the trick. Went from a real dog to the best shooter I've ever seen. Of course, my friend is an excellent shot so great accuracy was not all due to the gun!


Rebed the action and about 11/2" of the barrel butt and make sure the barrel isn't contacting the barrel channel anywhere else. No reason to get rid of it, especially at a loss!

Sounds like the barrel/action needs to be rebedded.

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:
Sounds like the barrel/action needs to be rebedded.

Is that something I can do myself?

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:
Sounds like the barrel/action needs to be rebedded.

Is that something I can do myself?

Some folks do it quite well by themselves but many would be far better off to hire someone with lots of experience to do it for them.

Yes is the answer but.......