Are round Nose Bullets the best inside 100yrds for big game knock down?
I got to thinking,I dont think i have ever shot a round nose that was not accurate?Everyone i hit game with made a huge hole going in and out!
Every magazine article says dont use them,only use spitzers.Why?The round nose has got to have something going for it or it would have died on the vine a long time ago.Am I the only one that has had great success with the rounders, are they really awful?What is the cut off yardage for there usefullness?Most folks stand hunt so i figure if round nose bullets hit harder and make great big holes,maybe they would be worth useing on close range shots,maybe better than spitzer?Why doesnt anyone make a premium bullet in round nose?If spitzers are so great for hunting,why are the 460 weatheerlys not spitzer?I can understand spitzers for long range,but for close range,are they really not the best?I dont get it?

I've had great success with round nose soft points. My favorites are the 250g .338 Hornady. They shoot as accurately as any spitzer I've tried and perform well on game the size of moose. I don't think you lose too much in downrange performance if you are sure you won't be shooting over 200 yards.

BBHunter:
The only commercial round nose bullets I've tried were the Sierra 150 gr. .277 bullets. This was when I was having a heck of a time trying to find a consistantly accurate load for my .270 Win. I was in a rush at the time, trying to get ready to go on a moose hunt so went to them in desperation. I did find them as accurate as any of the Sierra bullets I've ever tried. Didn't get a moose so can't comment on performance. I've since got the rifle shooting very well with Northforks and because I go after large game I always go to a premium bullet. For deer, etc., I don't see why they shouldn't function very well. Bear in Fairbanks

The appeal of round nosed bullets is in some respects aesthetic. Folks like myself who enjoy vintage guns also like to shoot ammunition that has a vintage character.

Round noses lose velocity faster than spitzers. Velocity is a contributor to lethality; but does that loss really matter inside 100 or even 200 yards? Round noses sometimes open up more dramatically and at lower impact velocities than spitzers; maybe that levels the playing field. As my Dad told us boys: "All generalizations are inaccurate - including this one."

I think that round nose bullets are mostly an anachronism. There are still a lot of old school hunters that believe they deliver more energy to a game animal than a "pointy bullet which slips straight through"

The truth is that due to the technology used for spitzer bullets, they open just as quickly and dump energy to the target just as fast as round noses.

There are also some hunters still buying round nose bullets for their "superior brush busting capability", also of course a myth.

It is pretty much impossible to relieve these old school hunters of their collective prejudices. I have failed to convince my father, over the couse of twenty years trying, that the 308's balistic performance is well over 90% of that of a 30-06. He swears that the 308 is worthless because he killed a deer with his 30-06 at 500 yds and his buddy could not hit the animal with his 308. He also still believes that any rifle shooting faster than a 30-06 150 gr load is a waste because the bullet will zip right through the animal without time to expand.

There is a market for round nose bullets with this group of hunters, so of course the manufacturers cater to it.

There is of course, no harm done. The round noses perform well on game, and no hunter will notice the balistic shortcomings on the near side of 300 yds. If they work well in your rifle and give you an edge of confidence, by all means use them.

I think your dad is a smart man and you might do well to listen to him.

Terry

He thinks so also!

HA! I knew that would get a reply

Terry

I care deeply for my Dad, but when it comes to hunting and shooting, I often have to use him as a bad example. He is of the opinion that if you can see game, and you put lead in the air, you have a better chance of putting meat in the freezer than if no lead is in the air.

I lean more to the one shot, one kill line of thought. Except for elk, they continue to get doses of lead until four feet are skyward.

I have good results with heavy RN bullets; IMO they have more knock-down power than spitzers. I use them for boars in driven hunt; shots are usually within 100 m. and often at 40/50 m. I noticed a real improvement over the spitzer. Usually boars fall immeditately now. With the spitzers they could run for 20/40 m. They are accurate too. - Lorenzo

There is a wide and long area where the performance of pointed bullets and RNs are equivalent.There are fringe areas where one or the other is superior. There are thousands of words written on this topic that I and I'm sure many others have read thru the years. If you have an intense interest in this, start looking for exterior balistics sources. I'll bet the internet has some documented informatiom that will get you started. Ass Clown might even get you on the right track. roger

Wildboar,

What caliber and bullets are you using ?

I used to have the same problem you refer to with a 300 wm, but since I’ve changed to a 9.3x62mm, if you do your part, you don’t have to look far for your boar.

In my limited experience with the 9.3x62mm I don’t see so much difference between the spitzers and the round nose bullets as in the smaller and faster cartridges.


Cheers,
Nsiro

For hunting applications I like RN's and Falts in my experience they do more damage.

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from BBH:
Are round Nose Bullets the best inside 100yrds for big game knock down?

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Hey BBH, That is difficult to say as a fact one way or the other. It really depends on the entire bullet Design and not just the Profile. Some standard made RNs are just tougher than other ones.

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I got to thinking, I don't think I have ever shot a round nose that was not accurate? Everyone I hit game with made a huge hole going in and out!

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That is perhaps typical of the specific RN you just happen to be using. Some RNs are 2-diameter Designs which does indeed provide an opportunity for excellent accuracy and less Bore Drag. Here the front portion of the RN is Bore diameter and thus rides atop the Lands, while the portion of the bullet aft of the cannelure is Groove diameter.

If however you decided to load the 30cal 150gr Hornady RN in say a 300Wby, you would typically be disappointed with the results on Big Game due to the fragility of the bullet. That bullet's Design Envelope is for 30-30 velocities and pushing it to fast can cause it to expand too quickly.

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Every magazine article says don't use them, only use spitfires. Why?

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I can think of a couple of reasons. First off, we have fewer RNs available today than we used to. Some of the very best Bullets ever made for Deer, Hogs and Black Bear have disappeared due to slow sales. To show only one example, I'll mention the 30cal 165gr Speer Hot-Cor RN. I've used it and seen it used on many kills with excellent results and they typically got a 1-2 inch Exit.

Slow sales have caused Dealers to quit ordering them and what was on the shelves is gone. To make it worse though, I checked about 3 years ago and there were over 100k setting in Speer's inventory. At some point they will be moved to obsolete inventory and then they can be purchased from Lolo.

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The round nose has got to have something going for it or it would have died on the vine a long time ago. Am I the only one that has had great success with the rounders, are they really awful?

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No, you are not the only person to have outstanding performance with them and they are by no stretch of the imagination awful. The example of the 30cal 150gr Hornady above does have the potential to mislead folks though.

And that brings us to another thing which is killing them off – propaganda. Most if not all negative reports on RNs stem from either improper use(as mentioned) or a lack of First-Hand Experience from the Rookies. You will see a lot of people denigrate the RNs that have never shot one. This seems to come from a Defensive Position where they believe putting-down the RNs somehow makes their choice of bullet superior.

If you see posts like that or hear someone belittle them, ask what experience they had to lead them to that conclusion. Generally they are shooting from the hip and begin whining about a HUGE loss of down-range energy due to the RNs Ballistic Coefficient. It would make you think they are trying to use the RNs at 1000yds.

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What is the cut off yardage for there usefulness?

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This ties in with the above quite well. I’ve personally used some RNs at about 400yds with excellent on-game performance. But, I was not using a 30-30 bullet at 30-30 velocities. It is simply a matter of learning the trajectory for the particular bullet/load combination. Nor would I try a 400yd shot with a RN in a 35Rem. It is just the wrong application.

For shots beyond that distance, I choose sleeker bullets and higher velocities myself.

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Most folks stand hunt so I figure if round nose bullets hit harder and make great big holes, maybe they would be worth using on close range shots, maybe better than spitzer?

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Maybe, but it really depends on a specific RN at a specific velocity in comparison with another specific bullet profile/design at a specific velocity.

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Why doesnt anyone make a premium bullet in round nose?

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In fact, they used to do just that. Nosler had some Partitions in a RN profile. And some of the other Premium makers in older times did as well, like Barnes, Bitterroot, Hawk, etc. Most have changed the profile to a sleeker design simply because the buyer "thinks" it is better for his hunting when in reality 99.5% of the people using them would never know the difference.

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If spitzers are so great for hunting, why are the 460 Weatherbys not spitzer?

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This is a situation where ALL shots taken by a rational hunter using that caliber will be well inside that RN Design Envelope. People using these just don’t take long shots.

But of more importance, the RN is shorter than a spitzer. When the same Overall Cartridge Length is used with a more pointed profile, the bullet Base extends farther into the case which reduces the available powder space. It is not as big of a deal in a 460Wby as it would be in a 458Win which needs all the room for powder it can get.

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I can understand spitzers for long range, but for close range, are they really not the best? I dont get it?

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To sum it up, maybe one fits your needs better than the other. If you find a RN that you like and the Design Envelop makes sense for your velocities, you will rarely be hindered in any way at all by the RN profile.

RNs would not be the best choice for people who believe Gut Shooting(raking shots) and shots at the Wrong End(rear end) are OK to take. In those situations, a Premium bullet is without a doubt the best choice.

Hot Core,Thanks for takeing the time to answer all my questions,They make perfectly good since and i agree with what you say.Thanks to everyone for help on this matter.I will not feel like a black sheep anymore because I have allways liked the old round nose bullets!!You guys are gentleman & scholars!All Good Answers!

RN bullets are more RELIABLE in their expansion. For something such as a 7x57 they are fantastic out to 150 yards or so BUT the trajectory is MUCH worse than the ballistic tables would have you believe.

For short range woodland hunting they are fantastic. For general purpose they limit me.

I myself find that when I am woodland stalking I can often see deer in clear cut areas etc where the range is longer. Wind and range make such shots with a RN much harder.

The modern equivalent is something such as the interbond which has a much higher BC but a device to gain that increased expansion. Inside of 150yards it would be a waste but for a general purpose usage it is superior.

I used a box of 154gr Hornady RN on deer but moved to the 139gr BTSP and IB after wounding a buck at 200yards due to slight range mis estimation and huge drop. I don't find the 139gr BTSP any less lethal just slightly more damaging.

I love RNs. I hope I'm not an anachronism at 38.

It's all a moot point, really, because the manufacturers are ceasing production on so many RN classics. In the last couple years, alone, Hornady and Sierra have both stopped some of their .270 and 7mm RNs. Specifically, I miss my beloved .277 150-grainer.

Places like Graf & Sons still have some in inventory, and you can buy direct from Hornady and Sierra their remaining inventory (a little pricey, though).

RSY

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Are round Nose Bullets the best inside 100yrds for big game knock down?

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Personally I think they used to be.
Today we have so many really fine pointed and bonded bullets that the day of the round nose is almost history.

Lets face it....the days of the .30-30 are nearly extinct and there's very few folks that bought a .270 or a .300 mag for short range shooting.

NSIRO, I had problems with the .300 Win. Mag and 180 g. Speer GS. Boars succesfully hit, could run for 20/40 meters (or more). Hunting friends teased me since I shot boars with a powerful round, and I was not able to stop them. Since I switched to Sierra 220 g. RN. boars almost always fall in their track. Last year I tried Norma Oryx 200 g. with good results, but I have to test them more extensively. - Lorenzo

Anyone can say what they want about Round Nose bullets. All I know is that if the range is 250 yds or less, which is 99.9 % of what anyone's big game range should REALISTICALLY BE ( I know there are exceptions, like I would not load a round nose especially for antelope for instance) I will always take a round nose.

If two bullet weights are available in Spitzer and Round Nose, I will always load the round nose. A roundnose is as good as a premium bullet any day, because round noses are always in higher sectional density weight for penetration.

Anyone had problems with accuracy with a round nose? If you did, it was the rifle, not the bullet.

Anyone who states a round nose is not lethal, just hasn't hunted much or doesn't know what he is talking about. Terminal performance between a generic roundnose or a so called premium bullet are equal in my book.

Of course I am from the older school spoken of above by other posters. I see no need for these short mags, see limited need for even a lot of the Standard Long action mags, in this country ( except in Alaska). The 30/30 is not a dead cartridge in my circles. IN fact a lot of those guys envy my 30/40 Krag and I envy their 38/55s, 40/65!!!

Unless it is an elk or something, I don't see anything my 260 Rem or 6.5 x 55, or 7 x 57 falls short of compared to a 7 Mag or 300 Mag on deer or bears. Even on Elk, a magnum gives me an extra 50 yds, range is all in my book.

Yet when I carry my 300 Winchester afield during Elk season, it has a 220 grain Round Nose at 2950 fps MV in the chamber. Back to that round Nose thing again.

Then the old 30/06 loves those 220 grain RNs and also the 180 RNs.

I just wish I had handloaded when Hornady still had the 129 and 140 grain round noses in 6.5 mm.
I am sure I would have bought about 2000 rounds of each to hord for the rest of my big game hunting life.

I am also hording the 338 caliber, 275 grain Semi Spitzer from Speer.
I also have a fair amount of Hornady 175 grain and 154 grain 7 mm bullets, their 150 grain 270 RNs, and even the Sierra 100 gr RN and the Hornady 100 gr RN in 6mm.

Anyone out there wants to get rid of their round nose bullets, give seafire a call. We can work something out I am sure.

YOU can keep your Short Mags, your Accubonds, your SST's Hornadys, Swift A frames etc.
I'll keep something that is proven to work.

Cheers and good shooting
seafire

I hate to sound like someone defending Balistic Tips but the first 100 or so deer i killed were with a stock 30'06 bdl, a weaver 2.75x7 scope and remington 180 gr round nose corelocks---few ran & none were lost.. Then i became a shooter rather than a hunter bought expensive guns, scopes and started hand loading..every year i say i'm going back to round nose bullets, my 7x57 loves 154 round noses but it just never happens because i'm playing with a new set of toys..the simple facts to me after killing many deer & hogs is that the old round nose corelocks seem to kill better & quicker.

since a long shot for me is 75 yards bullet drop does not matter but deer drop does..

I got my moose last year in Northern Ontario with a 6.5x55 using a Sierra 160gr. SPSP (round nose to me) so I'll probably be singing their praise for some time to come. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

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Originally posted by Ulfhere (HTL):
The appeal of round nosed bullets is in some respects aesthetic. Folks like myself who enjoy vintage guns also like to shoot ammunition that has a vintage character.
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That pretty well sums it up for me. My guns aren't vintage but most of their chamberings/cartridges are. .30-06, 9.3x62, .375H&H, .416 Rigby, .470 NE. That ol' 220gr RN in the .30-06 is a thumper in the bushveld.

I just like round nose bullets. I'm a retro kind of guy that probably suffers from too much nostalgia. But, that's part of the enjoyment for me. I like using the older, historic cartridges and round nose bullets just look right in them. But, those round nose bullets do work.

Of course, they're not the best choice for every situation. We have all kinds of bullets to chose from today. No real need to argue about it. There is no single best choice. Use what works for you in the conditions that you hunt in.

Just my ramblings.....
-Bob F.

I too find much use for round nose bullets. But due to them getting harder to find I have tried some pointed bullets in their place, recently the .284 175 grain Hornady spire point with wich I killed two deer with this year. My 7x57 has a 1 in 9.5 inch twist and on both deer the bullet tumbled, breaking in half at the cannelure. I feel a shorter RN bullet would not have done this. These were the first two bullets I ever recovered from deer with this round. The comment that the 30-30 is becoming extinct is funny because I see a lot of them in the woods and the RN bullets they shoot seem perfectly suited to deer and hog shooting.

One more thought on the range limitations... if range is an issue you can just stalk closer and get to experience more real hunting, vice shooting. That is the real motivation for my interest in older rifles and cartridge loads - it removes the long range technology crutch and gets me focused on what I am there for.

Rickt300, how do you know that they tumbled? Were the jacket petals torn off at the cannelure? Its possible that the cannelure weakened them sufficiently for that to occur and the interlock (under the cannelure) stopped expansion at that point. My brother and I have shot the 175 gr Hornady in a 7mm-08 at lower velocity than you probably had (~2250 fps) with no evidence of tumbling. Sometimes a bullet will turn sideways at the end of its travel, though.

I came to the conclusion they tumbled because of the condition of the recovered bullet pieces and the oddity of them not exitind. The first deer was shot in the neck on a frontal angling shot. All that was recovered of this bullet was a bullet base with the cannelure full of lead in a wadcutter shape, it was in a backstrap with a total penetration of 16 inches and only 5 inches of spine. The other bullet the base exited but the front of the bullet stayed under the hide and it looked like it had tumbled. It also penetrated around 16 inches of deer and it had hit some bone. Velocity in my 19 inch barrel has to be less than 2500 fps and distance to deer in both cases was around 75 yards. But this is just two deer and I will keep using this bullet till I am out of them, another 150 or so. Well maybe not if I keep seeing tumbling but they are slated for some feral hog hunting soon.

Hey Rick, That is indeed a strange thing you are seeing about the Hornady Bullets "breaking" apart. I don't believe I remember hearing of that before.

As I sit her trying to think about what could possibly happen during their manufacturing to create the potential for this, the only thing I can think of is if the core was a bit hard, when the cannelure is applied, it "might" fracture the core at that point. But, that really goes against everything logical in the Quality Assurance Tests they would perform on the Lead prior to insertion. Just not real logical.

It might be a good idea to contact Hornady and let them know what you saw. They may have a good answer you can share with us, or they may want to "swap" for those bullets to analize them.

I had some 22Hornet factory ammo that split cases on the initial shot. I contacted the manufacturer and they took the remainder of the two boxes and sent me 4 new boxes in return. Also got a very nice well written professional letter from them.

Best of luck to you.

I absolutely love the Hornady 175 gr RN in the 280 Rem or 7mm Mag.

Have taken 25+ animals with it in Africa, and always great performance.

I sort of believe the barrel twist may be at fault as it is a long bullet and the twist is probably on the marginal side. I used a twist rate calculater and it came up with the slow twist at less than 2800 fps being 1 in 8.9 with a .284 bullet 1.355 inches long and I am not getting very close to that velocity. Accuracy is excellent though.

I like the round nose bullets and have killed a lot of plainsgame and dangerous game with them, as I have the Spitzers...I get the impression that sometimes they knock a bigger hole and I love those Woodleigh RN 350 gr. 375s and the 416 cal with 450 gr. RN..

As to which is best I have no idea, they both work well enough for Govt. work and I guess I will continue to use both..

How do I decide between the two, depends on which way the wind blows on a certain day.

One of my favorite bullets in 7MM is the Sierra 170 gr, RN, unfortunately discontinued for some time now. I found five boxes at a gun show and bought them all. The guy was glad to dispose of them at $5.00 a box. Has Hornady discontinued the 175 gr. RN? I have some, but if they're gone, I'd best try to chase down a supply. I have three rifles in 7x57 and none of them will shoot the 175 gr. Hornady spitzer worth a damn. I suppose they might be minute of moose if I was fairly close, say right next to him, but so far, they're miserable on paper.
Paul B.

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Originally posted by Paul B:
One of my favorite bullets in 7MM is the Sierra 170 gr, RN, unfortunately discontinued for some time now. I found five boxes at a gun show and bought them all. The guy was glad to dispose of them at $5.00 a box. Has Hornady discontinued the 175 gr. RN? I have some, but if they're gone, I'd best try to chase down a supply. I have three rifles in 7x57 and none of them will shoot the 175 gr. Hornady spitzer worth a damn. I suppose they might be minute of moose if I was fairly close, say right next to him, but so far, they're miserable on paper.
Paul B.

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Paul,

On those 175 grain Spitzers, try a load of IMR 3031, with 40 grains ( work up etc). I have two Rugers that had that problem. Until I stumbled onto that load, by shear dumb luck.

99.9 % of all my loads in a 7 x 57 is 40 grains of IMR 3031, period. Velocity is only about a 100 fps a second between 140 grain bullets and the 175 grainers. All are half inch groups or tighter. Bullet is seated to touch the lands and both the Rugers are long throated. I have a Winchester Featherweigth also in 7 x 57, with a long throat. That one eats anything you feed it and gives you 1/4 to 1/2 groups at the worst. But it gets the IMR 3031 treatment anyway.

Cheers and good shooting
seafire

Five inches of spine sounds rather severe. I would not be surprised to recover a bullet with some damage in that event. Like I said, the jacket shearing at the cannelure is not altogether unexpected. That is a weak point. The other thing is that bullets hitting bones at oblique angles will be diverted and could tumble. That isn't poor bullet design, just physics. I've seen a bullet fully keyholed on impact in less than 20 yards after hitting a stalk of dry grass that you wouldn't think would even be felt, so side swiping a major bone could make all kinds of things happen.

I use only one powder in the 7x57, been using it for many years now with all bullet weights and it gives me way more velocity than any other powder and accruacy always seems to be good in any 7x57, at least so far...H414 and I load it considerably hotter than book, as most books are concerned about Mod 95 mausers etc....

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Originally posted by blackbearhunter:
Are round Nose Bullets the best inside 100yrds for big game knock down?
I got to thinking,I dont think i have ever shot a round nose that was not accurate?Everyone i hit game with made a huge hole going in and out!
Every magazine article says dont use them,only use spitzers.Why?The round nose has got to have something going for it or it would have died on the vine a long time ago.Am I the only one that has had great success with the rounders, are they really awful?What is the cut off yardage for there usefullness?Most folks stand hunt so i figure if round nose bullets hit harder and make great big holes,maybe they would be worth useing on close range shots,maybe better than spitzer?Why doesnt anyone make a premium bullet in round nose?If spitzers are so great for hunting,why are the 460 weatheerlys not spitzer?I can understand spitzers for long range,but for close range,are they really not the best?I dont get it?

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The reason dangerous-game bullets are generally NOT pointed is due to the fact that a round or blunt-nose solid bullet tends to stay on course through heavy muscle and bone in thick-skinned animals. The use of such bullets is a good idea if you are trying for brain shots on elephant! For almost all other uses, a spitzer is just as effective as a round nose, and in addition, carries its initial velocity down range a lot further.

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Originally posted by Paul B:
Has Hornady discontinued the 175 gr. RN? I have some, but if they're gone, I'd best try to chase down a supply.

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Hornady still lists them and Graf & Sons still sells them, so it looks like they're safe, for now.

RSY

I have used the round nose bullets in the .257 Roberts with good results on deer. I don't know if I can say they worked any better than spitzers that I have used, but certainly not any worse. I do know that if I were fairly certain that the shots were going to be 200 yds or more, I would stick with the spitzers.

At ranges beyond 200 yards the spire point begins to take the edge (due to higher retained velocity/energy and less bullet drop too), but under 200 yards there's so little difference I wouldn't concern myself with it.

If your rifle likes RN bullets then go for it, they're accurate and hit hard. In my heavy caliber rifles I tend to shoot RN bullets almost exclusively, in the 30-06 and bottlenecked rounds I tend to use spire pointed generally, though I do like the W-W 180gr RN in my '06 and find them very accurate.

Hello the campfire:
Like everything involved in shooting , the question of round nosed vs. spitzers (the pointy ones) depends on who you ask. I generally load spitzers because they are easy to find. I have loaded round nosed when I was casting bullets. I personally think that a good cast roung nose lead bullet is great on game, and I don't mind cleaning the lead out of my barrels. It comes out much easier than copper.
As far as entry or exit wounds, I was taught that you wanted a bullet that went in, did a lot of damage, but did not come out the other side. This was the reason that ex-military amunition should not be used to hunt. It was designed to go through and cause a wound channel but not cause a lot of damage because it takes 10 men to take care of a wounded person, but only one to bury a dead one.
The answer is that you should use what you are comfortable with, within its design limits. Spitzers were introduced by Germany for down range efficency in the pre-world war one Mauser. At the time the US and other Armys were using a simple casT round nosed bullet, which was easier to manufacture and was the world standard both for military and civilian use.
If you realise that all hand gun amunition (that I know of) is round nosed, you may be able to draw a conclusion as to the near range effectiveness of the round nosed round.
Judge Sharpe, a poor widows son.

I find it interesting that every time the subject of round nose bullets comes up here comes the "spitzers are better" crowd. Or they say that spitzers have been designed to do anything a RN bullet can do and better. BS, RN bullets work best at velocities under 2200 fps and expand at lower velocities than standard soft point spitzers. for 90% of all deer hunting RN bullets are arguably the best bullets bar none and their close brothers the flat point? bullets are right in there. The 30-30 and 35 have been proving this for years.