For about the same recoil,
How much more capable is the Whelen225tsx over the 220gnSP.30-06?..
At what point or situation would you feel better with a 35Wh225tsx in your hands?

The question really is "what kind of game are you shooting".

For deer, elk, moose, I doubt there's much real difference. People shoot moose with a .270...

For Bear, I'll take the Whelen and stuff it with a 250gr. Swift, Grand Slam, Partition, or otherwise. The .35 cal bullet just plain has greater surface area and gives you greater capacity for expansion.

Personally, I'd take a 250 gr. bullet at 2500fps over the 220 '06 bullet.

Regardless of caliber, I've seen nothing that out penetrated the good old 220 grain RN's....

even 250 grain RN's out of a 338 Mag...

which did surprise me, but I couldn't argue with the results...

a 220 grain RN in 30 cal just plain works...

Finn Aaggard did a test...338/06 vs a '06 w/200 PTs, the '06 was very comparable.....penetration.

I'd still want a 338 bullet on big stuff over 30, but the 30 will get it done with shot placement and bullets that penetrate like the heavies do w/in their ranges. Many animals bit the dust inc. Grizzlys and moose w/200-220s.

I think you just realized what thousands perhaps millions of gun nuts, hunters, and balisticians, gun scribes, and boy scouts discovered over the years.

After one shoots a large number of animals with various calibers, reads and rereads all the balitic gobleygoop out there, talks to knowledgeable folks, gets his thinking together, it suddenly dawns on him what a really fantastic caliber the 30-06 really is..I don't shoot one much these days, but it truly is the one best all around caliber the world has ever seen, it will simply do it all, from field mice to elephant, it has been proving itself over and over again and is the one cartridge that all others are compared to...

If I had to hunt the world over on foot and pack all my gear, a fwt. pre 64 M-70 or custom 98 mauser in 30-06 would be my choice, if I could have a few solids to go with it.

I love the 30-06, but give me a 35 Whelen loaded with 250 gr bullets any day on any game out to 300 yards.

Barstooler

quote:

At what point or situation would you feel better with a 35Wh225tsx in your hands?

If I felt I needed a 220gr bullet out of 30-06, I would feel much better in every situation with a 35 caliber 225gr bullet.

I have never understood the desire to shoot super heavy for caliber bullets out of any cartridge. Especially with todays bullet designs. Back in the pre Nosler Partition or premium bullet days I can understand the need for super high SD bullets of questionable construction.

The 30/06 is truely one of the best all around calibers we have, thankfully most of us don't have to hunt with only 1 caliber.After shooting many moose and bears with different calibers, you can't kill anything to dead, and as much as I like the 06 big critters certainly show a different reaction when hit with a 35 whelen or larger over a 30 cal or smaller.Not that the 30's have trouble killing big game, just the instant reaction after being hit.I think that the 35 whelen is also one of our very best calibers when talking elk, moose and bears.Low recoil and great killing power.

I love my 9.3X62, but I would hunt anything less than elephants with 200 gr. Nosler partitions in one of my 30-06's (I only have six).

yep the old ot-six is just plain jane vanilla but it is a grand old cartridge too.

The 30-06 has proven itself time and again. It is an exceptional caliber that does many things very well. I wouldn't hesitate to use it with any NA game; however, I must say that If I were hunting the largest bears I'd probably opt for the Whelen (I may not need too, but there would be a level of psychological comfort provided there).

A side note: The fact that so many keep comparing larger or faster calibers to the 30-06 is a testament to the 30-06's years of consistent performance over such a wide range of hunting situations, both in North America and Africa.

If I needed more than 200 grains of bullet in a 30-06 I would get my Whelen out and sling 250 grains as hard as I can.

If the 30-06 leaves you feeling light in the britches, step to the next classic that all compare themselves against.

The .375 H&H!

The battery of the 30-06 and .375 H&H will take very good care of you.

quote:

Originally posted by SDhunter:

quote:

At what point or situation would you feel better with a 35Wh225tsx in your hands?

If I felt I needed a 220gr bullet out of 30-06, I would feel much better in every situation with a 35 caliber 225gr bullet.

I have never understood the desire to shoot super heavy for caliber bullets out of any cartridge. Especially with todays bullet designs. Back in the pre Nosler Partition or premium bullet days I can understand the need for super high SD bullets of questionable construction.

SDHunter,

some folk do get carried away with the Sectional density idea and ignore other factors in bullet design and performance.
One can load .30-06 220-240 cupcore, but personally, If I found myself hunting in that weight range,and I wanted something that offered more grab N"Go penetration- versatility, Id prefer 338/06-230gnFS...yes it has less Sd, but not less penetration.
Likewise, I see things like 338win300WL 2500mv and 35Whelen300WL-2300mv,
However, .375taylor-300Fs and .375/06-300Fs would penetrate no less if not more.
When push comes to shove for more all round versatility, Ill take the combo of reasonable mushroom/high weight retention/greater penetration, over, larger mushroom/less retained weight/reduced penetration.

Either load will kill any NA game. To me the edge goes to the whelen in a greater effective range. I don't have any load manuals with me, but off the top of my head the 220 gr -06 load is 2400 fps at the muzzle, 2000 fps at 200 yds. The 225 gr whelen load is 2700 fps at the muzzle, 2000 fps at 300 yards. Hence I'd opt for the 35 whelen as I don't want to be holding a 200 yd rifle in my hands when I'm presented with a 300 yd shot.

The TSX dont fly very well, but they penetrate. If the question was about a 225 leadcorebullet I would say the 220 06 was a safer bet on large animals. But the 200 358 TSX sail through moose and the 225 is probably even better.

High SD leadcorebullets are still very good hunting bullets no matter what new bullet designs come up with. Things can actually get good enough. This fall I was very impressed with the performance of a 156 Norma Vulkan in 6,5*55 a friend used for moose. Even with a nice mushroom up front its still a lot of bullet pushing behind. They dont go any further from one of those than any other ammunition we have tried.

Its the hole in the lungs and heart thats lethal not the diameter of the hole. Or length of hole before width.

I lived in Alaska for some years and used both on moose and bear,griz and black, and could not tell the difference from one's performance to the other one. My preference was the '06 w/ Remington Core Lokt 220gr and never gave a second thought as to stopping/killing whatever.
Never took shots at over 200 yards and the bullet went where I sent it and that was that.
The Whelen had a nick name of "poor man's magnum" and quite a few used it, but by far and away the '06 more popular or at least back then it was. Doubt you could visit a village or camp that did not have some type of '06 handy.

There's faster stuff out there, but the whole family of 06 class rounds are fantastic. I have an '06, 338-06 and 35 whelen. I have had a 25-06 and a 280 rem also, not to mention the venerable 270 winchester.

I don't think the game cares which one they are shot with, I think it's more important that the shooter has confidence in his weapon than the actual caliber. The only issue with the 220 grain round nose is the ability of the particular gun you are shooting stabilizes them well. A slow(er) twist is preferable.

In theory the 35 will give less recoil with the same bullet weight as the bottom area of the projectile is larger and the surface in contact with the barrel is less than the 30.

But! There is something about "over long" bullets in any calibre on certain game that seem to give it a better performance. Better than a lighter, faster, bullet in the same calibre size.

To whit 160 grains in the Mannlicher, 140 grains in the 264, 150 grains in the 270, 120 grains in the 25-06 or 257 Roberts and 105 grains in the 243.

I think that the only handicap you might have with the 220 in the 30 is that if you come across smaller sized quarry! What then?

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
For about the same recoil,
How much more capable is the Whelen225tsx over the 220gnSP.30-06?..
At what point or situation would you feel better with a 35Wh225tsx in your hands?

At longer ranges, as the Whelen with that bullet will give higher velocity and better BC than the '06 with that bullet.

My experience has been that 200 grain bullets will out perform 220's in a 30-06 every time! In fact 200NP's are so good, they became the only bullet i'd use when hunting big game in Alaska with a 30-06. I just saw too many 220's fail to hold together well enough, even on caribou.