I'm getting my son a rifle for X-Mas. He likes the Savage youth rifle. It is offered in both .243 Win and .308 Win.

He has a New England Arms .223 Rem single shot and has killed two small whitetail does with it. He has a Remington Youth 1100 20 gauge and took his first tom last spring with 3" magnum 20 Guage loads. He also shoots trap fairly often.

I am not a huge fan of the .223 Rem for a deer rifle, but I do believe they serve a purpose for young hunters wanting to get started. This year, he went to the range with me to check the zero on four rifles we were taking on a special quota hunt. His younger sister was drwn for the hunt too so, she gets the .223 Rem and my son would carry my dad's Remington 742 in .243 Win. So, he shot the .243 hitting 4/4 clay pigeons I set up at 100 yards off the bench. It seems the recoil didn't bother him at all.

Here's the question: Should I buy a .308 Win or .243 Win. I have dies for the .243 Win, but I have a lot of .30 cal bullets as two of my rifles are .30 cal. I like the fact that the .308 is a much better "all around" IMO. However, I have never owned a .308 nor fired one. I don't know what to expect with recoil. I was thinking I could either load some light loads for it or just buy Remington's managed recoil loads. I guess I'm asking how much more recoil will the .308 have than the .243 in the same weight / size rifle?

Thanks in advance!

I think that .243 might be the next logical stup up. I'm not sure what your son's stature is, but the recoil of a short and light weight .308 can get a bit snotty with full loads for the unseasoned. I don't think a deer would be any deader with a .308 as dead is dead... Plus later on when he out grows it, he can pass it on to his younger sister and upgrade into something else that will fit him better.

Well, my choice would be the .308 using properly reduced loads or Remington's light loads. However, if he shot 3" magnums in a 20 ga. shotgun, recoil would be similar to that or just a bit more, but not much more. Even so, I'd still want to stick with a lighter load for a while. I just think more can be done with the .308 than the .243, especially if sometime down the road bigger game such as elk might be on the menu.
Paul B.

If I was buying a rifle for a small statured shooter, I would look hard at the Remington Model 7 Youth in .260 Remington. Kind of splits the difference between the .243 and the .308. Wish Savage chambered it, or the 6.5x55 Swede, as I think both are excellent light recoiling deer cartridges.

I'd go the .308 Winny route. Since you handload, you can download it rather easily.

It's what I did for the first big game rifle for my kid. I used 125-135 grain bullets loaded to around 2,200 fps. A piece of cake.

The Ruger MKII compact in .308 w/it's 16.5" barrel is a very nice youth rifle also.

MM

It seems that if this youngster can handle a 20 gauge mag without difficulty he won't have any trouble with with lighter loads in a .308 Win. Apparently you reload, so loading up some 150 gr. loads at about 2500 fps. won't bother him at all. Besides, he will have a rifle that he will likely use for life. Every time he picks it up he will remember it as "the rifle my dad got me when I was growing up".

Geronimo

Born to Hunt

Check out the Savage Model 11FYXP3 Youth. It is a package rifle that comes with a 3-9X40 scope but more importantly it is available in 7MM-08 Check out this link: Link to Model 11FYXP3

The 7mm-08 is a .308 necked down to 7MM. I've got one in Rem 700 Mtn LSS and just love it. Very accurate, plenty of power, wide selection of bullets, extremely light recoil and with the right bullet suitable for any non dangerious North American game.

Do a search on "7mm-08" and you will find nothing but good things said.

firstshot
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Make your first shot count!

My choice would be a .260, I don't like the .243 for deer & the .223 even less. If they can handle a 20ga shotgun they can handle a .260 or 7-08. If set on .243 or .308, get the .308 & handload some 130-150gr bullets to 2500fps.

I just bought my small statured grandson a Rem Model 7 yout rifle in 260 rem. The gun is very accurate and the 260 will beat the 243 ballistically. There are several threads on this subject from a month or so ago which might help. The recoil is less than the 308 which also helps.

BTH,

I like the .260 too (I hunted with 6.5X55 as a teen, and use a 6.5-'06 now), but in this case I recommend the .308 Win in the Savage. I find those I have handled to be on the heavy side compared to the M7 Youth for example. A bit of extra weight, and a lighter bullet in the .308 Win will work well.

I like to get the grandkids involved in reloading "their load".

jim

You may also want to post the question in the small bore area.

Also like 260 rem, 7-08 and 308 calibers.

I like the CZ 527 in 7.62x39.

A 30-30 might be a good choice.

Just don't care for the 243.

.308!!! More 7.62 bullets out there than mose anything. IMO the .308 or 30/06 offer the handloader the best in med bore rifles.
Have a Great Christmas

Since it's only offered in the 308 and 243, go with the 308, load it up with a 150 Hornady and 40-41grs. of Benchmark, and it should be a good shooter for your boy. Jay

I personally wouldn't risk developing a hard to get rid of shooters flinch for the sake of shooting .308 bullets. I've killed plenty of deer with a .243Win before these tough internet deer were ever invented and it works great. Just put some 100gr bullets in it and you'll be surprized at how effective it is.

Terry

MY friend you live in Kentucky, and last I checked the largest big game in Kentucky, might be a wandering black bear so do your son a favor. Buy him the .243. He will shoot it well, and it will drop anything under 300lbs, just fine with a good bullet put in the right place. Now if you decide to come up to Canada or the Northern States for something bigger, hand your son the .308.

The .260 Rem is my standard recommendation for anyone who wants a medium game rifle that kills effectively with light recoil. I use 125-grain bullets to cleanly kill whitetails, and if you need deep penetration you can increase the bullet weight to 160 grains. The 7mm-08 is also a good alternative, but so close to the .308 that I'd just go with the latter.

How old is your son?

Normally I'd suggest the 243 (it is what I've picked out for my son too, but he's 10) but as Geronimo pointed out if he can handle 3" magnum loads in a 20 guage he can deal with a 308. Plus if he has a 223 available there is better spacing between that and a 308 rather than a 243. If he didn't have the 223 I'd say 243 no question but since he does might as well move up to something that works a bit better.

Good question Mark. My son is 10 too. The .223 was bought for him by my dad. He had good intentions but, he bought a bull bbl New England Arms Handy Rifle. My son may as well try and hold a sledge hammer to his shoulder with the mallet extended away from his body. He has never offered in any way that recoil bothers him. As a matter of fact, he really tries to hard to hold the crosshairs perfectly still. He has let some shot opportunities get by him because he takes so long to squeeze the trigger. I will say this...he has never missed anything he shot at except for his share of clay pigeons and crows when we set up decoys and shoot at passers. If the target is still and he has his Stoney Point shooting sticks, the game is down. He has shot a lot and I do mean a lot for a 10 year old, but he started right...with a .22 then a 410 then a 20 guage then the .223 and this year, a .243.

My reason for getting him a new rifle is with our current arsenal, he has to use the sticks. That means the game must be standing still. Last Tuesday, he had his first opportunity to shoot an antlered whitetail. The buck was on a mission as they often are this time of year. He was walking steady and Justin had to try and follow the buck obviously not able to use the sticks. He couldn't hold the rifle up and follow him too. The buck walked right past us at thirty-five yards at one point and he never fired. I am beat down about it and feel terrible for not buying him a rifle that fits better before now...I knew better...Justin didn't.

I'm not even gonna say what I think this buck would have scored. Let's just say Justin may hunt the rest of his life and never have a crack at another like this guy. Again, my son doesn't know that, but his dad does.

I called Dakota Arms about their youth rifle program. It is a good deal for two grand all things considered, but they can't get one before 8 months...I wanted 7mm-08. Justin wants a Savage because I bought a new Savage this year and he really likes it. I really like the Accu-Trigger and that is why I want a Savage for him. I like the Ruger youth rifles, but if the Remington and Ruger youth rifles trigger pull is as lousy as their adult rifles, it just won't cut it. Besides, I just bought my first Savage and had only time to work up one load for it just in time for deer season and it shoots as well as everyone told me it would.

Someone posted a link to the Savage web site regarding the package deal in 7mm-08. That would be my choice, but Justin wants a wood stock. I too think the synthetic is disgusting looking on Savage rifles. However, the wood stock rifles all come with iron sights...another disadvantage in my book. I don't want to buy the package. My dealer told me they usually come with either a Bushnell or Simmons scope. I have a brand new Leupold VX III 3.5-10x40 to put on his rifle. I don't know what I'd do with a Simmons.

Keep it coming guys. I'm going tommorrow to look at the rifles.

Born to Hunt

I have to agree with your son on the plastic stocks. I still think 7mm-08 would be an ideal caliber. While you are out looking at guns, see in anyone has a Rem 700 Mtn LSS in 7mm-08. It's stanless steel with a wood grain laminated stock and weighs in at only 6 1/2 Lbs sans scope. Even with a scope it's a very easy cary in the woods and I don't think you son would have any problem at all shooting it off-hand when the need arose.

Here is a pic of mine.


As far as the trigger pull is concerned, I adjusted mine myself using instructions I found here on the net. It was really easy to do and now my rifle has a nice crisp 2 1/2 Lb pull.

If you're set on getting a Savage Youth (wood) model, go with the 308.

Good luck!

firstshot
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Make your first shot count!

My buddy just got his small 10 year old a youth m700 for 320.00 in 270. The boy shoots the managed recoil ammo and loves it. The thinking in this is that when he grows up all he needs is a new stock, or a good used one and he can hunt his entire life with the gun dad got him. He can hunt anything in N.A. with that gun from coyotes to bear and moose from now until the day he dies.

The 243 is a great deer killer. Anyone who thinks differently is uninformed. At that age, forget the 308.

You might try the Savage model 14 in 7mm-08. It is only 1/2" longer and 1/2 pound heaviear than the youth model. If it fits that would be your best bet. You can also get the standard 7mm-08 and put a cut down wood stock on it. You can buy a factory wood stock pretty cheap on the net or at http://www.savageshooters.com in their forum under the classified section.

My son had good success his first season using a 243 loaded with 100 grain Nosler Partitions. If there is any chance your son can do some off-season varminting then the 243 is a great way to go. You are already set up to load for it and bulk components are an inexpensive way to create practice ammo. I intend to rebarrel the 243 to 260 eventually because we don't hunt varmints (and have other rifles to use should we ever start) and slightly wider, heavier bullets ought to be more effective on larger game. A 308 kicks about twice as much as a 243 but the Managed/Light Recoil loads by Remington and Federal erase that difference and still kill deer neatly at close range.

All that said the most important thing to do for a beginning shooter is to make sure the rifle fits and has a proper recoil pad. Buy a rifle with a wood stock so it can be easily shortened, padded, and glass-bedded. Unless your boy is on the small side there is no reason not to buy a rifle with a 22 inch barrel which will serve to move the muzzle blast flash a little farther away from his ears (hint: the adult sized package guns frequently cost less than the youth setups). As he grows you can buy him a replacement stock or the short stocked job can serve his sister, the kids' cousins, or the next generation. While we're at it make sure you select a scope, mounts, and rings that allow to mount the optics as low on the rifle as possible so that your boy does not have to crane his neck to see his crosswires. Finally, my son and I hunted wearing electronic hearing protection (Peltor 6S). It protected his hearing and what's left of mine and still allowed us to communicate without alarming the neighborhood. Good hunting!

The 308 is a junior 30-06. Load it down for a few years, then pump it up when he gets older and hunts bigger game.


Okie John

As an old fart I shoot, with comfort, the calibres which are also suited to the young. I'm a 6.5mm and 7mm fan, therefore either the 260 Rem or the 7mm-08 are my reccomendations for a young'n.
I've used both the 243 and the 308 but prefer the two in between. If your son is not put off by the recoil of the 308 then that is, in my view, the better of the two Winchester cartridges.
What ever you choose I hope your son has many years of good hunting.

I love the 7mm08 but if all your son is going to hunt is deer then the 260 will kill deer just as well as the 7mm08 with a little less recoil. If you have time for a local smith to cut the stock and add a decelerator pad then it is even better.
My wife weighs in at 97 and shoots my 7mm08 fine but if I buy her something of her own it would be a 260 and then I don't have to worry about which loads to use. If I had 2 7mm08s both would more than likely have different loads for each rifle.
Good Luck choosing but get a little more than a 243 which is a 260.

I started my son off at 8 years old with a .257 Roberts in a Ruger M77. At 11, he went to a Ruger M77 in 7x57. At 13, he hijacked my Winchester 70 Fwt in 270. Now as 6 foot 210 pound 15 year old, he has expressed intrest in either a 7mm Mag or a 300 Mag. Start them off with a gun that fits and they will let you know when they need another gun with a different fitting stock.

Gidday Guys,

I bought a rem Model Seven in 260 rem with the idea that it would be a great starting rifle for my then 9 year old son and double as a good bush rifle for me.

Wouldn't you know it he decided it kicked too much and he prefered something that had less bite. He settled on a 700bdl in 30-06.

From this I would say that a mountain rifle in 260 with at least 22" barrel would get the muzzle blast away from him and be perfectly up to any herbivore in North America.

Get him to shoot alot and to put his shots on the button every time.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

quote:

Originally posted by Born to Hunt:

I really like the Accu-Trigger and that is why I want a Savage for him. I like the Ruger youth rifles, but if the Remington and Ruger youth rifles trigger pull is as lousy as their adult rifles, it just won't cut it.

O.K. - I'm gonna fess up on this one. I agree about the Ruger trigger. I put Timney on the kid's MKII. The stock trigger was a POS.

MM

270

I'd go with a 260 or 7mm-08. Much better killers than any 243, yet still low recoil with effective big game loads.

Since he has experience with the .223,20g and other calibres I would go with .308Win at about 10 I was shooting dads .303 and 12g and at 12 in army cadets .303 smle and 7.62 slr , from memory the only one I was wary about was the 12g, rifles were fine.

Steve

.308 recoils about like a light loaded 30-06. But if he needs a youth size gun then i bet he might be a bit too small for the .308 i would look into a .260rem or 7mm-08 25-06 arnt bad either. And you should be ablt to find the last 2 in a savage gun.

If you're going to stick with that model and either of those calibers I'd be tempted to buy the 308. Sometimes I think giving a kid a 243 because it doesn't kick is like giving him a .410 for the same reason. In fact, both are better suited to adults because of their inherent challenges.

The only thing really "youthful" about a youth gun is the LOP. Any 10 year old is going to have challenges shooting offhand so I'd worry more about practice on the sticks than practice wobbling. If that seems logical to you then you can also put some additional weight in the butt and forearm and get the overall weight and balance (most youth guns aren't that well balanced) right so that a 10 yr old can handle full-house 308 loads. In fact, I bet with 130 gr 308 TSX Barnes, he wouldn't mind shooting the gun at all.

It may not be a popular choice but my 12 year old used a single shot handi-rifle in 25-06 for his first Coues deer hunt.

I gave him the choice of the 25-06, a 22-250 t/c encore, or a mauser .243 .

He shot them all and chose the 25-06.

He weighs in at about 130 lbs and had no problems with recoil.

It is a good choice but is is a longer shell, compared to 243, 7mm-08, 260, & 308.

Also, don't forget how good a single-shot rifle can be for a young hunter.

For safety, and for learning to make the first shot count.

And, no we didn't see any bucks this year for him.

He'll get it next year - with his 25-06.

I'd take the .308 for a kid, and seafire has provided us with near a million loads to get the lad up and running.
Cheers...
Con

If he's physically large enough and has his heart set on the Savage I'd go with the 308 and download them for lighter recoil. A 308 would give him more room to grow. If he's not locked into the Savage Youth rifle I'd look at some options in .65x55 or 7mm 08.

I guess I had too much time to think about it. I'd like to ammend my answer to say that the differences are real but insignificant enough that I'd find out which he prefered and get him exactly what he wanted because confidence and satisfaction mean a whole lot more than the difference between a 243 and a 308.

.308 no doubt about it. A handloader can download it to recoiless levels, a 110-130 gr @ ~2400 will drop any whitetail out to reasonable ranges with minimal recoil, and he'll never grow out of it if/when he wants to launch heavier bullets. That's what I'll be starting all my kids out with.