Wondering what you all recommend for a 338 Win Mag barrel as far as optimum length and twist.

Not interested in any of the really light offerings. Cant imagine myself wanting to shoot a 180gr in 338WM when I could just as easily go to a 30-06AI....

I am very happy w. Hart barrels so it will be one of theirs. Length is a biggie as well. I went 25" with a 35Wheelen AI and am happy. Would I need to go to 26" for the 338WM for optimum velocity or could I steal that extra inch and go 25"??? And how much velocity loss and I looking at for a 24" ??

Thanks for all your help.

2" of length in the 338,is about 25fps on the outside.

Which action?

I'm building a 338wm on a Krieger barrle cut to 27". It's not done, but I should be shooting it soon, I'll let you know what it chrony's at.

quote:

Originally posted by Busheler:
2" of length in the 338,is about 25fps on the outside.

Which action?

Stiller Precision Predator w. a 2.5lb Jewell. I went w. the same set up in 35Wheelen AI and fell in love! Man I wish I had a Jewell in all my rifles!

EDIT: I would think more like a 50fps than 25fps.....but I'm no expert, that's why I'm askin!

Doesn't really matter what you think,25fps is reality.

Velocity loss will be powder burn-rate dependent to a large extent.

Also varies barrel to barrel in my experience--

That is-

two "identical" guns from the same manufacturer

WILL routinely display differing velocities with the same load.

In general on a 338 WM -I personally like 26" or more--

If your gun "Feels" better between your hands at 27" --
that's great

if it's 25" that's great too-

Don't sweat the barrel length to too great a degree.

There's no way to make the 338Win "fast",so I'll take portability.

I'd not build one longer than 23".

larrys been drinking again...

26" on a 338Ultra?

Yep.

Another thread killed by that ASS! Luckily he is banned!

Biscut, you might check the classifieds. 22wrf had a new one for sale recently. 23 -25 should work fine. My 70 classic has a 26 tube on it and it's sometimes unweildy.

I have bought a few Mod 70; 338's. They came with 26" tubes. I had both cut to 24.5" and never looked back. Just a handier gun and both shoot very well. I have a 340 Wea that does have the 26" barrel and believe it benefits to a greater degree from the extra length.

I barely squeek out over 2700 fps out of 225 grainers with my 388 winne with trimmed down to 23". Never do seem to get the velocities people around here get... must be my luck. Doubt the bear will tell.

Biscut, Dad and I both have Winchester Model 70 Win Mags. His with a 24" barrel, mine with a 26" bbl. With identical loads of H4831/H4350, mine shoots about 100 fps faster.

In my opinion, 26" is a good length for the .338 Win Mag.

Federal used to make a 250 gr Nosler HE load @ 2800 FPS and a 225 gr Trophy bonded HE @ 2900 FPS.
They both shot to this velocity in my old Mod 70 stainless classic with the 24.5" barrell (my son's gun now).
The 250 NPT load was extremely accurate. I still have about 10 boxes of this stuff I put back. I cannot imagine a better all around Elk load; short and long range.

Thanks for all the good information. Especially after that TOOL put a damper on it. From what I have been able to garner a 25" should be a solid compromise. Hart barrels agreed so I feel good about it...

Now what about the twist?????

Biscut, tell Hart what bullet weight your are planning to shoot most of the time and let them tell you which rate you need. They know their stuff.

After speaking w. Hart I'm looking at a 1/10" twist w. a 25" length.

Sorry............now to figure out contour! These are good problems to have!

Who ever chambers the barrel shoud be able to cut the throat(need to know what bullet you want to uses) so that the proper oal and the magazine lenght are same. I have a situation where I had a 223 Win 70 rebarreled to 6TCU. Found out to late that the 6TCU has a longer oal than the 223Rem,even with same case. If I load to magazine fire the rifle the bullets are 0.070" to 0.1" off lands.

I build rifles. I just built a .338 Fed. with a 24" barrel and a 1-8 twist. (I had a spare short action) It gets the 225 gr. to about 2300 fps. with great accuracy. Haven't tried lighter than 210 gr. and probably won't as I don't think it will shoot the light bullets well. I am going to build a .338 WM with the same barrel lenght and twist. I want one that will shoot 250 gr. bullets well. It has been my experience the 1-10 twist in .338 is best used with 225 gr.'s and down. What I want is a 22" barrel that will shoot 250 gr. sub-MOA. My .338 FED may do it but won't have the velocity I want.

Why in the world would you use that fast of twist?
Butch

It is my understanding that when the 338 WM was introduced, Winchester offered 300 gr bullets in factory ammo, thus the SAAMI twist was set at one in ten inches to stabilize the long heavy bullet. Since then the 300 gr factory ammo has been discontinued and the common max bullet weight for hunting is 250 gr., which is plenty with the quality of bullets made nowadays.

Yet the SAAMI 10" twist remains and is the general factory barrel twist rate. Several years ago, I bought a new stainless Mod 70 in 338, and it was close to the most inaccurate rifle I ever owned. So, I used the action as a donor, and had it rebarreled with a Lilja stainless in 12" twist. Since then it is among my most accurate rifles. I use mostly 225 gr bullets, but it shoots 250 gr just as accurate, and 200 gr as well.

So, I can state with certainty that unless the plans are for bullets heavier than 250gr, a twist rate faster than 1 in 12" is excessive twist, in a hunting rifle. I don't know about those ultra-long range rifles - that's a different formula. Based on my experience with the Mod 70 action and the Lilja barrel, a 12" twist rate for a 338 is all I would have.

KB

I built a Model 70 Classic with a #4 sporter contour Pacnor barrel with a 1 in 10 twist. The barrel length is 26 inches.

This rifle is very accurate and is tolerant of powder type and bullet weights. Most of the time I shoot 250 grn bullets - I can pretty much hit what I'm pointing at out to 500 yards.

It has been my observation that things like recoil and barrel length are pretty subjective and vary from one shooter to the next. For example I find my Winchester with the 26" barrel shoulders and handles well. For me barrels shorter than 22" are intolerably awkward - my experience.

I think you should have the barrel length at what feels right to you.

All the new barrels I've had put on are 36". I
do not what the barrel twist is. I let my gunsmith take care of that.

I see that PacNor offers custom barrels up to 40", for extra charge.

If 36" is good and acceptable, why not use the extra 4" and make it an even 40" for that extra swing and mileage? Really reach out there?
Yea, 7" or 8" twist 40" 338 WM barrel - now that's something real.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Busheler:
There's no way to make the 338Win "fast",so I'll take portability.

160 gr TTSX FB

3295 fps

quote:

Originally posted by BISCUT:
Wondering what you all recommend for a 338 Win Mag barrel

24.5"

1 in 10 twist

#3 contour

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Why in the world would you use that fast of twist?
Butch

Butch,
I had a .338 in 1-8 barrel that was too short for more than a 24" barrel. I had a spare short action so I thought I would give it a try. I also had the .338 Fed reamer and a short action stock that didn't have a home. As it turned out, it has made a very accurate rifle. I haven't shot it with anything heavier than 225, yet. I have built three .338 Edge's, two with 1-9 and one with 1-9.3 twist. All are under a 3" group at 700 yrds. shooting a 300 gr. Sierra over 92 grs. of H1000. I thought that the .338 Fed would need the tighter twist due to it being much slower. I haven't done the testing I need to do to see if my thoughts were correct. Fishing trips and back surgery are getting in the way. I want to try it with 250 gr. and 300 gr. I don't know what I would use the 300 gr. for other than punching paper, but it might be interesting, if it works.........Tom

quote:

Originally posted by ar corey:

quote:

Originally posted by BISCUT:
Wondering what you all recommend for a 338 Win Mag barrel

24.5"

1 in 10 twist

#3 contour

Ended up with 1/10 twist, 25" length, and #4 contour.

I don't get it. Why the fast twists in 338, such as 1 in 8"? Even the 10" twist is relatively fast. Heck the 375 works good with 12" twist and has for a long time. The 35 Whelen works well with 14" twist. Where does this notion come from of faster (twist and velocity) is better?

I didn't even know that a twist rate faster than 10" in 338 was offered, since I figured there was simply no need for it. Now that I know it exists, I recon it must be for the 300 gr long match type bullets shot in the ultra high velocity sniper rifles, but even then with the extra velocity available, I question the need for such a fast twist.

Heck, if a faster twist than necessary for stabilization was somehow a good thing, surely the benchrest group would be on it, but instead, they seem to go for the minimum twist to get er done.

KB

quote:

160 gr TTSX FB

3295 fps

With Reloader 17 the 160gn TTSX can be driven even faster. I recently worked up a load with this powder, Viz:- 160gn Barnes TTSX, 81gn Reloader 17, Fed 215 primer, Norma cases, COAL 3.390 inches, jump to lands 0.075 inches. It is fast and accurate in my rifle averaging 0.85 MOA for six 3 shot groups at 3390fps with a SD of 10fps. My rifle is a Ruger M77 Mk1, with a 24 inch 1 in 10 inch twist MAB barrel. Previously I had a Lothar Walther barrel, which I think was marginally more accurate, but I chose the locally made product this time because I didn't have to wait as long. This rifle shoots 160gn to 300gn bullets quite accuately so it is really versatile, and at 24 inches it is quite handy for running shots and snap shooting. I am quite happy with the length and twist, but I guess it really depends on your desired application for the rifle. I had the magazine lenghtened by 1/8 inch so I can seat bullets out to a COAL of 3.450 inches. This gives me a bit more powder capacity than standard, so if you want to duplicate this load start at 75gn of Reloader 17 and work up from there.

338User,
That's quite an impressive report. I have never had that kind of success with such a wide margin of bullet weights in any caliber. Usually, all the rifles I own, and have owned like bullet weights like these examples:

130gr to 168gr in 308 12" twist,

Another 308 with 10" twist which shoots 180gr noticably more accurate than 165gr. That's all I've tested in it.

I have one 30-06 that likes 180 gr very well, in just about any brand I've tried, but accuracy drops off with anything lighter or heavier, and really shoots poorly with 220 gr.,

I had a custom 338 with 10" twist which was plenty accurate with 250grs, but opened up a little with 225gr and more so with 200gr bullets, so all I used in it was 250gr.,

The 338 I have now is 12" twist, and it shoots 225gr best, and almost as good with 210gr and 200gr, and likewise with 250gr.,

I have two 280s, one 9" twist and one 10" twist. The 9" twist shoots 154gr and 160gr very well, and 175gr not as well, and anything lighter than 150gr very poorly. The 10" twist shoots up to 150 gr very well, but very poorly with anything heavier, and 130-140gr best.

I have one 7x57 with a twist somewhere between 8" and 9", and so far it refuses to like 175 gr bullets, but shoots very nicely with 140-160grs of several different brands. I found that as a surprise, because I expected it to like the heavier bullets. I kinda found out it liked 140 gr bullets by accident because that's the bullet weight of some remington factory ammo which is all that was on the shelf anywhere in town. I figured I would just shoot them up, and load the brass with heavier bullets, but they shot very accurately at the range. So then I handloaded some 140 gr bullets with the same results. That actually is the first time I've had success with lighter bullets in a faster twist.

So, those are examples of my experience. I would like to find one of those fabled rifles which shoots all bullet weights equally well. Apparantly it's possible, as in the example you gave, but I've never seen one.

KB

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I find that Barnes bullets are the most accurate, nearly always under 1", Noslers and Woodleigh's next at around 1" (but often better) and then everything else typically falls into the 1.2 to 1.5" category. Reloader 17 is best for light weights (to 180gn) AR2209 (H4350) is best for 200 to 225gn bullets, and Reloader 22 is best for 250 to 300 gn bullet weights. My choices are 160gn Barnes TTSX, 180gn Nosler Accubond, 200gn Nosler Accubond or CT ballistic tip, 225gn Nosler Accubond or Hornady SST or Hornady Interbond, or Barnes TTSX (or TSX) and 250gn Nosler Accubond, Woodleigh PPSN, Swift A Frame, and 300gn Woodleigh RNSN. All these provide accuracy that is plenty good enough for hunting at any reasonable range, and all are good quality bullets. I really only need one rifle for a wide range of applications, but it did take a lot of testing to find the right powder and load combinations.

quote:

Originally posted by 338User:
I really only need one rifle for a wide range of applications, but it did take a lot of testing to find the right powder and load combinations.

A wide range of applications is really well served by the 338 WM, which is why I have one. I can imagine the time it took you to test such a variety of bullets different weights, brands, and different powder.

I have never tested one rifle so thoroughly, because usually I run into a combo that apparantly is outside the range of what the rifle likes, so I just stop and feed it what it shoots well and move on to the next rifle.

The thing about the 338 that I have now is that I don't remember it being picky about what I fed it, which means it may be one of those rifles that actually shoots well with a fairly wide range of bullet weights.

However, as a practical matter, I generally find one bullet weight and brand that shoots very well, and just stick with that one load, so I don't have to remember what the rifle is sighted in for. If I have a variety of loads on the shelf, I would get confused, and may have to refer to my notes. Instead, I just grab a rifle that I know is sighted in for the specific bullets available. I have to try to keep it simple, which is basically the main reason I don't actually test a wide range of bullets in a given rifle.

Although the 338 will shoot 160gr through 300gr bullets, and maybe heavier, now that I think about it again, I see no need for anything lighter than 200gr or heavier than 250gr, in a 338 WM hunting rifle. That's the reason I went with a 12" twist in the first place - to capture that sweet spot combo of matching the ideal twist to the preferred bullet weight. I don't shoot targets nor game at ranges greater than 300 yds, so being stabilized and accurate within that range is all I'm concerned with. I'm quite sure if I ever wanted to take that once in a lifetime 400 yd shot, and I could hit the target, the bullet would still be stabilized and do the job.

It's a really good handling, good looking, well built rifle, and functions perfectly. I use it mostly for deer hunting in SE Alaska, where there are lots of the huge brown bears too, and I feel better carrying a 338. Recently I took a short trip, and stayed at my property in SE Alaska. On my last day there, August 1st, opening day, I got to hunt deer. I had several choices in the gun safe, but I went to the 338, and some Hornady interbond 225 gr handloads. I got a spike buck, through the neck, at about 50 feet. I gave it to a friend, because I already maxed out with extra baggage bringing back 50 lbs of halibut, and had no space for deer meat.

Anyway, the discussion got me thinking of how useful the 338 WM really is, as a broad application hunting tool, even if only one bullet weight is used - 225gr. I really should just declare mine as my go-to rifle. Unfortunately, I put it back in the safe, and didn't bring it with me. Next time I will.

KB

As I previously stated, once I tried 250 gr. in a 1-8 twist in a .338 Fed. I would post the results. The load was 46 gr. Varget under 250 gr. Hdy interlock. It shot sub MOA at 2300 fps. I was very pleased. I won't try the 300 gr. because they will just be to slow to be of much use. With the 250 gr. it has 1700 ft/lbs. @ 400 yrds. That's enough for anything I will put in front of it. It would have about a 36" drop @ 400 yds. with a 200 yd. zero. I think it would make a great Moose gun, light, easy to carry and low on recoil. I built one for a woman that shot a 62" moose @ 185 yrds, one shot, it traveled about 50 yrds and piled up. She used a 200 gr. bullet, factory ammo, don't know the brand.

With the same 46 gr. of Varget, 225 gr. TSX's went 2550 fps. also sub MOA.

I don't think 1-8 twist is too fast, it works.....Tom

I have the 338 Ultra Mag. Its rem. of course.
Its real sharp. Its good for big bears. Last bear I shot with my 300 ultra Mag. One bullet
to the heart. Might be going after grzzle bear
shortly.