Noticed some talk about a 338-06.
What is it, how is it used and why?
Also I believe its a 300-338 or 30-338?
same question.
Something I dont understand and right now this is one (2) of them.
Thanks
Greg

It is a 30-06 case, necked up to use a .338" bullet. Pretty simple and straight forward wildcat that became a proprietary factory cartridge (meaning only one or very few chamber it, the adopted name is 338-06 A-Square, and only A-Square and Nosler make factory ammo, A-Square and Weatherby make rifles in limited numbers).

How is it used? Same way a 30-06 is, just mo'betta. Great for heavier game like grizz, moose, and elk. But, wouldn't be overkill for deer either. Quite a large selection of bullets, it really is a handloaders dream cartridge, so much can be done with it.

A 30-338 would be 338 Win Mag necked down to .308. No, this is not the same as the 300 Win Mag. The Win Mag has a shorter neck and the shoulder is a bit farther forward vs the 338 Win Mag. The 30-338 is nearly identical to the 308 Norma mag. Many speculated had the 308 Norma not come out a few years earlier, this WOULD have been the 300 Win Mag. But, it did, and the Winchester was "improved" by having the shoulder moved forward creating a negligible amount of more powder.

Some people prefer the 30-338 (which, in fact was made by the Remington custom shop as a semi-custom/production rifle for a short time) or 308 for the longer neck, better "grip" on longer bullets. Although, I've yet to find anyone who ever had problems with heavy bullets in the Win Mag. I think its one of those old reloading things that refuses to die because of decades old practices, kind of like using super heavy-for-caliber bullets in standard cartridges when using super premium ammo. Really just not necessary anymore *shrug*

Good analysis. The .338/06 is sort of a lineal descendent of the .333 OKH of Elmer Keith fame. And that, in turn, is a lineal descendent of the .318 Westley Richards which was one of the most popular medium calibers in Africa before WWII. As Mile High said, it is a great caliber for those whose chosen game animals run toward the large. The 250 grain bullets at around 2500 fps, even ones of conventional construction, penetrate forever and leave awesome exit wounds. All three of these ballistic triplets are sound killers and have been for over a hundred years.

Two really good posts above....the .338-06 is possibly the finest elk cartridge a going IMO!

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Two really good posts above....the .338-06 is possibly the finest elk cartridge a going IMO!

Please explain why you feel this way.

Thanks for the very informative above posts.
I kinda get it now.
So you are taking a 30.06 and spitting out a bigger pill???

Yes. Exactly. It's an extremely efficient cartridge. Can't beleieve it wasn't mainstreamed many moons ago. I have a .270 and 338-06AI and consider myself well gunned for anything in NA. It'll launch a 225gr bullet roughly 2700 fps. Compare that to a 30-06 with 180 bullets and you will see why it is such a popular cartridge. Hope this helps Greg. Cheers.

the posts above pretty much sum it up


Great cartridge, only drawback is the fact that it isn't mainstream, and probably never will.

I use 200-210 gr bullets exclusively, and have not found them wanting.

quote:

Originally posted by lagerboy:
Yes. Exactly. It's an extremely efficient cartridge. Can't beleieve it wasn't mainstreamed many moons ago. I have a .270 and 338-06AI and consider myself well gunned for anything in NA. It'll launch a 225gr bullet roughly 2700 fps. Compare that to a 30-06 with 180 bullets and you will see why it is such a popular cartridge. Hope this helps Greg. Cheers.

And that is all most factory 225gr 338WinMag loads produce for speed.

Looks like a fishing expedition to me. Someone already knows the answers.

Since you have to handload anyway, for a 338-06, might as well own a 338 WM. Perhaps in the old days before the 338 WM came out, the 338-06 might have been useful. Nowadays it only serves true believers.

The 338 Win Mag is far more useful, factory ammo is available in a variety, practically anywhere, and if you hand load the ballistics of the 338-06 can easily be duplicated with the magnum case, generally using the starting loads. If the opportunity of an elk hunt does happen, the full vel 338 WM loads will be handy.

People go to the so-called improved case and think they have something special, when the magnum case is improved already.
KB

Kabluey,

I'm curious, and this kind of goes with my "Light bullets in 30-06" thread that is around here too.

Just because you can, do you? Does anyone? I'm not being confrontational but yet again, we have someone saying X is better then X because I can do load up, down, all around (and do the hokey pokey).

But, who here is using a 338 Win Mag loaded down to 338-06 levels, with accuracy and consistent performance? Doing so requires less powder, good for the pocket and the shoulder. However, most high pressure cartridges all do well...at high pressure, meaning full cases. So you'd either have to use non-optimum powder and risk problems by stuffing too much of a fast burning powder into the case, or possible poor accuracy and inconsistent performance. This goes back to the all-in-one gun, but those theories are from long ago days of yore when you owned 1 or 2 rifles to kill everything, and hunting meant not starving, back when 3-4" groups at 100 yards was pin point accuracy.

I just see that as doing the same amount of work (reloading) to get not optimal results for your time and money invested in the project.

quote:

Originally posted by mrbofus:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Two really good posts above....the .338-06 is possibly the finest elk cartridge a going IMO!

Please explain why you feel this way.

Thanks for the very informative above posts.
I kinda get it now.
So you are taking a 30.06 and spitting out a bigger pill???

Oh that is easy!

1. Lots of good bullets to choose from, and many great ones, that are heavier (more energy) and a bigger diameter (bigger holes in game!)then what is available in the 30-06.

2. Does nearly all the job as the magnums, but with less recoil....no need to explain that.

3. Smaller cartridge, that can be housed in a lighter, easier to carry package with a shorter barrel and less weight, again, because less recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
Kabluey,

I'm curious, and this kind of goes with my "Light bullets in 30-06" thread that is around here too.

Just because you can, do you? Does anyone? I'm not being confrontational but yet again, we have someone saying X is better then X because I can do load up, down, all around (and do the hokey pokey).

But, who here is using a 338 Win Mag loaded down to 338-06 levels, with accuracy and consistent performance? Doing so requires less powder, good for the pocket and the shoulder. However, most high pressure cartridges all do well...at high pressure, meaning full cases. So you'd either have to use non-optimum powder and risk problems by stuffing too much of a fast burning powder into the case, or possible poor accuracy and inconsistent performance. This goes back to the all-in-one gun, but those theories are from long ago days of yore when you owned 1 or 2 rifles to kill everything, and hunting meant not starving, back when 3-4" groups at 100 yards was pin point accuracy.

I just see that as doing the same amount of work (reloading) to get not optimal results for your time and money invested in the project.

Wow. I think you are right on with this one. I was being a little argumentative, to draw a real responsive alternate point of view, but I didn't expect this - something totally practical.

OK, I'll level with you. I have tried slowing down the 338 WM, and was not totally happy with the results. It is one cartridge that I have had the best accuracy with near top loads. However, I haven't given up. In theory it should work. Like a true optimist, I think I just haven't found the right combo yet. I'm thinking of trying H4895, and doing the Hodgdon youth load thingy, as soon as the range opens again in spring, just to satisfy my curosity if it can be done.

However, looking at it another way, I haven't been dissappointed with full power loads in the 338. I don't feel any loss of utility. It's a great cartridge. Just like with any powerful cartridge, one has to be careful with shot placment to not mess up too much meat - on deer for example, but I've taken as many deer with a 338 as any cartridge, including a 30-06.

Let's get to the bottom line. If a guy owns a 338WM, then there is no advantage I can see in owning any other 338 cartridge - more or less powerful.

Oh yes, I almost forgot about the 338 Ruger Compact Magnum, which about duplicates the 338-06 quite nicely. I have a buddy who owns one, and I accompanied him shooting it several times. I really like that rifle. He got ahold of several hundred of the old 33 Winchester 200gr flat nose bullets, so he downloads them to about the right velocity for the old 33. Man, that's a lot of fun to shoot, and darn accurate too. He's using H4895. Apparantly that cartridge isn't finiky about slowing it down a bit, and full loads ain't bad. It's basically a clone ballistically of the 338-06.

KB

Guess I'm a Mr. X also..I see the 338-06 as a .338 Win on a powerful laxitive..

The .338 win comes in the same action, same barrel length, same weight, same recoil, but its a lot more gun, and yes one could load it down and if have a wife, son or a gay friend that may be desirable..

I used the .338-06 for many years prior to the 338 Win. and I liked it, but after I had one .338 Win. I was sold on the .338 Win. and later came to prefer the 9.3x62 over the 35 Whelan and 338-06, and I have never changed my opinnion on that..Just my take on the above posts, I don't care what anyone else shoots.

The only advantage of the .338-06 over the belted mag is that if you are prone to poor shooting you can have more ammo in your gun.
If you shoot well, the extra rounds in the magazine are of no consiquence. Ballistically the .338-06 is the little brother to the .338 Win Mag, or a bigger brother to the .30-06. Nate

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BigNate:
The only advantage of the .338-06 over the belted mag is that if you are prone to poor shooting you can have more ammo in your gun.
if someone is prone to poor shooting with a .33/06 I can see a higher recoiling less mag capacity .338win as a less sensible choice.

If you shoot well, the extra rounds in the magazine are of no consiquence.
and if one shoots well over normal hunting ranges, the extra power of .338win[from my experience] aint required.


Ballistically the .338-06 is the little brother to the .338 Win Mag, or a bigger brother to the .30-06.
and anything wedged between the ability of the .30/06 and .338win is certainly something with fine credentials.

Gee, I don't know where folks gets all of these experiences that the 338 Win Mag is dramatically superior to a 338/06...

I have both, and the mags sit in the gun cabinet..

the 338/06 is usually a 100 fps slower at the Muzzle or less...
even tho it 'recoils less' that is not the factor on which I had one built..

I had it built as I could use 06 brass and it is one of the few wildcats I've owned...

but once I got one, it has nothing to give up on performance for anything I'll ever hunt in the lower 48...

it doesn't need premium bullets...mine shoots well...at times I load it down to the old 33 Win Specs, or load it with 250 grain RN bullets with an MV of 2650 fps...

its an efficient round...

I look at it as a step up from the 30/06, but then once again, when I shoot an 06, it is either with a 180 grain RN or a 220 grain RN..which both are MORE than efficient enough for the job that one needs to get done..

and a 338 Mag doesn't do anything any better than the 338/06 does...

maybe I like it more than the 338 Mag strictly because it is not a factory round...so it has to be loaded by we handloaders... and handloaders usually know more about their equipment, and its capabilities than a guy that is tethered to 'store bought' ammo only....

some time solutions are the simpler ones...

I've owned several 338 Win mags over the years, and the one thing not mentioned here is that, for whatever reason, it's consistently accurate. I've seen some 338s that will shoot with varmint rifles (albeit a 3 shot group). How many varmint rigs will shoot their best with a barrel that is hot enough to be uncomfortable to hold?

Another plus for the 338 Win, even the novice hand loader can concoct a decent load for it. I can't think of a single finicky issue with this bore/case combination.

I haven't had my 338 out in the field since 2006, but I can tell you I'll never be without one. Few cartridges offer the balance of recoil/power that the 338 Win mag does.

P.S. I like the 9.3X62 too, and am making plans to convert an old J.C. Higgins (FN).

Wow! Thank guys for the education. I see several different takes on this cartridge.

What is the recoil comparible too??
and....
How does the 338-06 compart with a 300 win mag?

Great discussion!
Keep it going.
Greg

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Atkinson:
The .338 win comes in the same action, same barrel length, same weight, same recoil, ........

QUOTE]

I'd have to challenge that bit about same recoil. Realistically it compares to the .308 and .30-06. Shooting the same loads the .30-06 kicks more. Not much really but enought that I've seen several shooters who simply will not shoot a .30-06 but will shoot an identical load in a .308 with ease. Everyone's comfort with recoil is different.

It is true that a .338 WM will do more than a .338-06 no disputing that. However, most folks simpy don't need that extra ability.

If one is not a handloader then the WM makes much more sense as the .338-06 is for all intents and purposes a handload only item.

Seafire and Z1r

You know the 338-06 isn't a wildcat anymore right?

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?...gorydimensionid=9890

Not cheap, but its factory

quote:

Originally posted by mrbofus:
Wow! Thank guys for the education. I see several different takes on this cartridge.

What is the recoil comparible too??
and....
How does the 338-06 compart with a 300 win mag?

Great discussion!
Keep it going.
Greg

Recoil? Ever shot a 30-06 with 200, 220, or 250gr bullets? It'll be just like that.

And compared to the 300 Win Mag? Well, different beasts, and its hard to compare apples to apples BUT, a 338-06 tosses a 180gr bullet at the same speed as a 300 Win Mag does, 2950fps. Recoil in the magnum is going to be...sharper. Same with the 338 Win Mag.

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
Seafire and Z1r

You know the 338-06 isn't a wildcat anymore right?

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?...gorydimensionid=9890

Not cheap, but its factory

Why yes, I do. That is why I stated: "If one is not a handloader then the WM makes much more sense as the .338-06 is for all intents and purposes a handload only item."

Yes, there is "factory" ammo available but it is limited and as you say pricey. The old Weatherby factory 210 partion loads are about all a person needs though. The Nosler 210 partion loads are probably just as good. I can't remember the last time I saw a box of .338-06 on a shelf in a store. I don't believe BassPro, Sportsmans, or Gander have had any in ages.

The 338 WM has a much larger selection and most loads cost about half as much. Just about every shop offers at least one .338 WM load.

Personally, I prefer the .338-06 but then again, I handload mine.

Sportsmans had some back around......end of October, I'd say. There one day gone the next though, and I don't recall the price. While we both agree it is a pricey situation to be in, buying factory 338-06...the rifles likely custom as well (or one of the rare Weatherby's). In most cases, I'd assume the guy with a custom rifle or a hard to find Weatherby, probably has some free cash to stock up on ammo lol

Then again, and you'd know the answer to this better then the rest of us, how often do you get someone building a custom rifle in an off caliber, that doesn't already reload? I'm actually quite curious about that

quote:

Originally posted by mrbofus:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
.the .338-06 is possibly the finest elk cartridge a going IMO!

Please explain why you feel this way.

First off you notice that I qualify this with IMO or "In my opinion" and that is a bunch of it.....simply my opinion.

For starters it will match my test of a 20824 trajectory....meaning capable of placing a hunting grade bullet 2" high at 100 yards, dead on at 200, 8" low at 300, 2 feet low at 400, and 4 feet low at 500.

I carries the traditional 1500 ft-lbs of energy past 400 yards for elk hunting, uses a lot less powder than a .338 Magnum which yields less recoil which is conducive of potentially better shot placement.....and if necessary, I get one more cartridge in the magazine compared to a .338 Magnum.

The .338-06 is close to the performance of the .338 Magnum.....so much so that the difference is negligible in my opinion....(notice the opinion word again...)

If one was th shave frog hairs he'd probably find that the .338-06 is a full frogs hair better than the .30-06 and for a standard bolt face round that's saying something.

Yes, I have my prejudices but they are somewhat supported with a modicum of reason.

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:


Then again, and you'd know the answer to this better then the rest of us, how often do you get someone building a custom rifle in an off caliber, that doesn't already reload? I'm actually quite curious about that

About 1/3rd of the time. Many folks have more money than time and insist on rifles chambered for factory loaded cartridges. Cost is not usually an issue with these folks, time is however.

The majority of my customers do handload but often their choice is still influenced by the availability of factory ammo. It is comforting to them to know that they can readily obtain factory ammunition in a pinch. You never know when an unexpected hunt may present itself and it would be a shame to be caught without a supply of handloads on hand.

I started out with a 338 mag., then tried the 340Wby. and ended up with a .338-06 by the late 70's.

I just didn't need the recoil and muzzle blast of the Wby., and really didn't need the added velocity the mag. gives over the .338-06.

I built it for a brown bear rifle, and i got all the penetration on big bears i would ever need with the 06 case useing 275 Speers, so why put up with a mag. case that needs a longer bbl. to use, a gun that holds less cartridges and has more recoil/muzzle blast?

Over the years i shot moose/deer/caribou and other big game with my .338-06, so it's been a good choise for me.

Personally, i think it's over powered for deer, but lots of guys like them for that too.

DM

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by mrbofus:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
.the .338-06 is possibly the finest elk cartridge a going IMO!

Please explain why you feel this way.

First off you notice that I qualify this with IMO or "In my opinion" and that is a bunch of it.....simply my opinion.

Yes, I have my prejudices but they are somewhat supported with a modicum of reason.

Easy there, not trying to get ya fired up.

I understand you are stating your opinion, Great and thank you.
I was simply asking why "in your opinion" you felt that why and you have explained it very well.
Thank you again.
I am trying to learn and understand more about the cartridge, and from what I am reading i like the concept.
Cheers,
Greg

quote:

Easy there, not trying to get ya fired up.

I understand you are stating your opinion, Great and thank you.
I was simply asking why "in your opinion" you felt that why and you have explained it very well.
Thank you again.
I am trying to learn and understand more about the cartridge,

quote:

Easy there, not trying to get ya fired up.

I understand you are stating your opinion, Great and thank you.
I was simply asking why "in your opinion" you felt that why and you have explained it very well.
Thank you again.
I am trying to learn and understand more about the cartridge,

no problem here....I hope I helped you out some....one don't always know what the other poster knows so one sometimes overdoes his reply...

It seems to me that everything one can say about the 338-06 has been said....there's very little else one can add....If you're an elk hunter it's possibly among the best options you can choose from.....but seriously...if one has a .30-06....he's still not taking much of a back seat to the larger caliber....properly handloaded, the ole 30-06 is still one great hunting round for game to 1,000 pounds and more.

vaopdog,

We're all cool here!

I have never been one to get in P@$$%#g contests in forums and yes you have helped.

I am an ELK hunter and do have a 30.06 and a 300 Win mag. The 06 has always been my go to but Archery hunting is my real passion so I dont get to use my Rifles on Elk as often as I like.
Overall the 338-06 sounds like a very interesting and capable round.
Thanks to everyone for the input.
Greg

The .338-06 has been replaced by the more modern .338 Ruger Compact Magnum. It's simply pointless now to go to all the trouble of building a .338-06 when you can get an off-the-rack stainless or blued RCM.

IMHO, the all time best elk caliber is the 8MM Rem. Mag.

Dave is correct, IF you like Ruger rifles. Why didn't Ruger just start chambering exisitng rifles for 338-06? Is a short action that big a deal?

I have been emailing Kimber every 3 months to try and get them to chamber the 84L in 338-06.
But in all reality we need one of the big four rifle manufacturer's and ammunition companies to back it.

Not Weatherby & A-Square. My guess there are royalties involved with A-Square SAAMIing the cartridge and no one wants to give that shady guy any money.

First, yes have Browning Safari FN 338 WM at about 9 1/2 lbs gathers dust in the gun cabinet (not for sale). Little sister is pre 64 fwt '06 bored to 338-06 at 7 1/2 lbs all loaded and ready to shoot. Rifle has taken caribou/moose in NWT with 225 partition, brown bear in Alaska with 250 A Frame and six one shot kills in Africa from sable to zebra, etc. with 210 TTSX and now have loaded it with the 160 TTSX to see how it handles on big S Texas whitetail. Gotta love a rifle that goes from 160 to 250 gr and knocks hell out of game and easy to carry and has reasonable recoil. You big tough boyz just keep pounding your bodies with my safe queen WM. Yes, you mileage will be different but I think the 338-06 is one of the best!

I was at a gun show last week and a friend asked me why I like certain rifles and cartridges and dislike others when thay are ballistically simular, or not? I told him it's all about the wood. The .338-06 gives me wood and the .338wm does not. Do the arguments for or against any given opinion on either cartridge hold water? Yes they do and both are valid points of view. I like to talk about these things and I like to hear what you have to say about them. But in the end I really don't care what you shoot because I don't have the energy or time to put that much effort into what gives you wood.

The simple reality of the 338-06 vs 338WM is 100fps. Ref: 8th edition Hornady Handbook of cartridge reloading.

Nothing more, nothing less.

With 250gr bullets it's about 300 to 350 fps difference.

I shot my .338 WM over a friends chrony only because I was curious. I got a bit of deviation of course but right around 2770fps with 76.4 gr of RL22 & WLRM primers pushing Woodliegh 250gr PP.

It's no lazer or magic hammer but it is very effective, and getting factory ammo in a pinch is as easy as finding a store with a sporting goods section. Nate

My 338/06 runs 250 grain bullets at 2650 fps with several different powders..

don't know what loads you speak of Nate, but I can't see someone running a 338 Win Mag at 2950 to 3000 fps with a 250 grain bullet...

the Mag might start to be superior when bullet weight goes over 275 grains, but even the old Speer 275 grainers run in excess of 2450 out of the same rifle...sure wish they didn't stop making that bullet...

and availability of 338/06 ammo?

just loaded up 10 rounds this past week...

as long as 06 brass is available... there is no shortage of 338/06 ammo off my load bench...

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
My 338/06 runs 250 grain bullets at 2650 fps with several different powders..

How long is the barrel on your gun?

quote:

With 250gr bullets it's about 300 to 350 fps difference.

That statement is 100% false and incorrect.
Big Nate, please look it up.

Dave, Hornady used a 24" barrel on the Win Mag and 23 1/2" with the 338-06. Your beloved compact magnum is 100fps slower than the 338-06 albeit with a 20" barrel.

It is howerver, 50fps faster with the 200gr bullet. And the manual states 75-100fps faster with a 24" barrel, but I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would want a 24" barrel chambered in the compact magnums? Defeats the purpose of going "compact" IMO.

quote:

the Mag might start to be superior when bullet weight goes over 275 grains, but even the old Speer 275 grainers run in excess of 2450 out of the same rifle...sure wish they didn't stop making that bullet...

Seafire, I concur 100%. But my question is this: what can you do with 275gr Speer than can't be done with 250gr premium? Maybe load up some 275gr A-Frames for Cape Buffalo? Which I have no doubt would work, but probably isn't suggested or legal in most areas.

SDHunter:

My gun does have a 20 inch barrel. I agree that if you want a compact magnum, the 20 inch barrel is the best. However, Ruger does make the RCM in a Hawkeye in stainless or blued with a 22 inch barrel if you want a bit more velocity. In my gun, I am getting a chronographed +2600 fps with a 225 grain Hornady Spire Point. Seafire's claim of 2650 fps with a 250 grain bullet seems a bit optimistic to me since the .338 RCM has slightly greater case capacity then the .338/06. Maybe it can be done with a 24 or 26 inch barrel.