Fellow Members: Perusing through Winchester Arms web site, I couldn't help but notice the preponderance of WSM/WSSM chamberings - and the lack of 'standard' caliber offerings. Off the 27 non-custom models listed, only 3 are offered in .243 and 22-250, only 5 are offered in .223, and .308, and only 6 are offered in .270 and 30.06. Interested in one of the short magnums? Well then you have 21 models to pick from. Personally, I believe that Winchester Arms is embracing this short magnum idea a lot stronger than the shooting (and buying) public is.

yup!!!!

Hopefully they come around when not enough people buy the shorts and enough let them know that what has worked int he past, still works, and people want the .270', 06's, etc

Gents,

With all due respect, I think you may be off-point here. I truly believe that the WSM's and WSSM's are here to stay. I own both a 270WSM and 300WSM and really love them both. I am not about to claim far superior balistics than the old war horses, but I think the buying public is buying them like hotcakes as evidenced by Federal and others offering a multitude of factory ammo options. Just my humble opinion.

I dont have a problem with the shorts staying, just give us more options on the old reliables.

IMHO

Oh well, there's always other options. I am one gun buyer who will not fall into the Wizzum Pit, or SAUMMY Trap either. Screwem.

Pagris: I hear you loud and clear!

Winchester's main marketing feature is the "Classic CRF" action. Well, how about making the "classic chamberings" with those classic actions! Or, is it going to take another 28-year period for the company to return to another classic design again?

Winchester is desperate to flood the market with WSMs because the company is scared the WSMs won't hold. They are scared about the success of the WSM. Why don't they offer the standard chamberings along with the WSM only models? Because they are scared the discriminating shooter/hunter would choose the standard calibers over the over-hyped WSMs.

Winchester is trying to create a market. Create a niche for the WSM so it doesn't fade away in 10 years. So, when you’re in the market for a new rifle, you are funneled to the WSM with your choices. As evident by my experience in trying to purchase a 270 WIN M70 stainless classic. The same model in WSM runs $150 cheaper.

Yes, the 300 WSM was a success and is probably the only WSM that really outperforms the similar standard short action .30 caliber chamberings. Compared to the .308, the 300 WSM gets approximately 400 fps more with similar weight bullets. It brings nearly identical .300 WINMAG performance to the short action level.

The 270 WSM and 7mm WSM. A lot of pressure and recoil to move a bullet 200 fps faster over the 270 WIN and 280 Rem. and to get a ½ inch shorter bolt throw. These cartridges offer no real advantage over the standard calibers. 1.75"-2†bullet path difference at the 400 yd mark, big deal! Also, a WSM Winchester CRF only holds a total of 3 rounds vs. 5 rounds of a standard cartridge.

I too noticed that Winchester has dropped a lot of chamberings of the classic nature.....I almost couldn't find a 7MM Rem Mag the other day in their lineup.

I have no crystal ball and can't predict the future but I can predict my buying habits and wissums and such BS items are not there. They simply offer me nothing.....

Bwan,

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. I am not about to claim far superior balistics than the old war horses, but I think the buying public is buying them like hotcakes as evidenced by Federal and others offering a multitude of factory ammo options.

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I heard from a pretty repututable source that Winchester only filled around 120 rifles sold at the wholesale level and I don't rememember if it was Nov or Dec. That was on model 70's covering several sub models. If that is real numbers then the buying public is not on the WSM hype. WHether they are here to stay or not is yet to be seen. I think there will be suvivors when the fat lady is off the stage, and the 30 cal versions will probably be one, the rest of the calibers I think time will be unkind to some of these, and they will disappear almost as quickly as they were introduced.

No, I don't have the magic crystal ball on this. And no I haven't purchased or bought one of these rifles in a new round. I am holding caliber and cartridge proliferation in my gun safe to a miniumum and have yet to get motivated to buy a rifle, dies, brass for something is closely redundant in my safe. I think newer shooters are probably more receptive than the older established shooters.

Just food for thought.

Does not USRA make just as much profit on a gun whether it is chambered in 223 Rem, 243 Win, 250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 7mm Mauser, 7mmSTW, 30-06 Springfield, or 300 Wea.

I do not think they, or any other rifle maker, particularly care which letters follow the caliber designation. They just want to out guess the market, and chamber their rifles for the cartridges that are going to sell when they get to the dealer's shelves.

I am sure that they have abandoned the classic chamberings, because they can only put a certain number of rifles over the assembly line. And their market predictions were that they could sell a lot of WSM's and WSSM's this year, so they built a lot of them.

I bet that in a year or two, the market share will drop off for the WSM's and we will find the availability increased for our favorite classic cartridge. I don't think the WSM's will go away, but they will probably thin out on the dealer shelves.

The sporting good store near where I live (Mack's Prairie Wings, Stuttgart, Arkansas)is a major vendor for win guns and the #1 retail outlet for win ammo in the US (every year they have a big photo and story in the local paper stating same, and have plaques from Win. all over the store). One of the fellows there told me Win's #1 selling gun was the 300WSM, and their close #2 seller was the 270WSM. I think both are here to stay. After all, marketing drives the train and leads the public in the desired direction. Sure, many here have their personal preferences, but we are very small fish in a big pond. In 10 years, I doubt any manufacturer will have 280s, 7mmSTW, anyRSAUM, 7mm08, 260, and several others available in mass-produced guns. Not sayng anything is wrong with those calibers, just that the trend seems to be heading in that direction based on what the folks at Mack's tell me they hear from the manufacturers. Time will tell!

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Originally posted by Idaho Shooter:
Does not USRA make just as much profit on a gun whether it is chambered in 223 Rem, 243 Win, 250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 7mm Mauser, 7mmSTW, 30-06 Springfield, or 300 Wea.

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Well, not exactly. The WSM won't chamber well in the Rem M700, so the more they can sell people on their round, the more they sell them on their rifles. If they could make the 2.5" mags redundant, and then push the RSAUM to the wayside, they'd be shitting in tall cotton, as they say.
And I'll take this oportunity to say once again, if they'd made the round 3.1" long, they just might've pulled it off. in calibers .284 all the way thru .375, maybe higher.

If you want to know who is winning the "short mag" battle take a look at Remington's Model 700 XCR (Xtreme Conditions Rifle). The only short mags in the list are the 270 and 300 WSM not the SAUMs.

Walmart has jumped on the Wsm bandwagon hard and I am already seeing signs that the popularity is on the wane. The only short mag on the rack right now is a 223 WSSM. The have all their silver box ammo for the WSM and WSSM cartridges on closeout for just under 11 dollars and this sale on ammo started before hunting season and they still have a bunch of it. I feel that trying to leap in the face of the 30-06 and 270 with the WSM crew is like the little mouse flipping off the eagle, not too smart. I haven't looked too close but from what I can tell the 243 WSSM isn't much better than the 6MM Rem, the 223 WSSM compares closely to the 22-250 and the 25 WSSM is identical to the 25-06. In a way they are providing performance ranges not ordinarily encountered at Walmart in 2 of the last three cartridges, the rest don't offer much over the old standby cartridges.

I sure wish they would bring back a M70 Super Grade in 264 Win Mag with a 26" barrel.

Jackfish
I know at least two other people that would buy one of them if available. We have been in a bidding war for my friends "Westerner" that he has no intntion of selling.