The Accurate Reloading Forums
.358 winchester....
24 November 2023, 19:20
jimatcat.358 winchester....
picked up a nice Browning lever in .358... 1 of the few calibers i don't have and know nothing about...other than its a nice handling rifle...it need a scope... something in a Vortex... any body else shoot 1??.. thanks, jim
go big or go home ........
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24 November 2023, 20:33
FjoldJim,
I would say that the Vortex Diamondback 1.75x5
x32mm would give you about the most magnification that is useful for the 358 Win.
Frank
"I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money."
- Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953
NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite
24 November 2023, 20:51
jeffeossoJimmy
This was my first favorite caliber. 225g game kings are uncommonly accurate and hit like a concrete truck. Make sure the buttock bolt is tight and you hold sight picture for an instant longer than a bolt gun. 2x7 scope is all you need. Best powder I found was w748
24 November 2023, 21:11
AtkinsonI had one in a Savage 99F, it was deadly on both mule deer and whitetail,but value went sky high, so I swapped it for same in a 308 and a bucket of cash! The only thing that impresed me was awesome blood trails, long or short but plentiful..
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
24 November 2023, 21:41
p dog shooterI had one on a 98 action. Never was impressed with the velocities it gave.
Plus never could get it to group under two inches.
Some one needed it more then I did even after telling them of it problems.
24 November 2023, 21:54
dpcdNice round, but can be 1000% better as a 35 Whelen. I know, there are still people who can't manipulate that extra half inch of bolt throw....
To answer your question; Yes I have owned them and shot them; once had a rare pre 64 M70 FW in it. Worth more as a wall hanger to someone else.
But yes, 35 caliber is awesome.
24 November 2023, 22:03
Uncle GrinchHad one built for my son on a military FN action by ER Shaw maybe 35 years ago. All he shoots is cast bullets and has taken quite a few deer with it. He still has it and a 35 Whelan too!
Shoot Safe,
Mike
NRA Endowment Member
24 November 2023, 22:53
HasherI have one in a Savage 99.
I’ll agree on the 225 Gamekings.
I also really like the 200 Gr Barnes TSX.
Mine wears a 2-7 and it’s all that rifle needs. It’s roughly a 1-1/4 to 1-1/2” gun depending on the day I’m having.
It’s not a cartridge I have ever tried to stretch out. It’s a hammer under 250 yds.
DRSS
Kreighoff 470 NE
Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R
24 November 2023, 22:54
HasherI have one in a Savage 99.
I’ll agree on the 225 Gamekings.
I also really like the 200 Gr Barnes TSX.
Mine wears a 2-7 and it’s all that rifle needs. It’s roughly a 1-1/4 to 1-1/2” gun depending on the day I’m having.
It’s not a cartridge I have ever tried to stretch out. It’s a hammer under 250 yds….
DRSS
Kreighoff 470 NE
Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R
25 November 2023, 04:32
HipshootI have a Mark X with a Douglas bbl and McMillan stock, shoots great! Had it put together in the mid 70's when the Whelen was still a Wildcat.
The 225 GameKing is a good bullet but the 225 Nosler partition is far better. Both with WW748. I3031 and Tac are good also.
The Speer 250 gr. spitzer shoots really good in mine and I am getting a little over 2400 fps outa a 22" bbl.
The 200gr. Remington or Hornady RN are great for deer. My rifle shoots cast bullets great as a side dish or for close range deer.
2-7 Leupold. Simple to make brass outa very plentiful .308.
Shot many deer and a few Black bear with it, always 1 shot kills!
Hip
P.S. It is a cartridge to hunt with, not to take pot shots at long range with. Probably 250yds, ---good. I think 300 possibly with a 180 or 200 TSX.
25 November 2023, 07:40
sambarman338As to the scope, if your rifle is light for calibre and you want the optics to last, be careful what you put on it. I would look for a
little ol' reticle-movement Kahles, Pecar, Nickel, S&B or Zeiss/Hensoldt.
However, since they are both rare and tricky to install, Atkinson and I would probably lean towards a more-recent Leupold 2.5x. I'm a bit surprised Ray didn't offer some opinion himself on that
25 November 2023, 18:27
WstrnhuntrI had the same. The BLR has a pretty short bbl, I think the 358 would benefit with a little more barrel length. It is a great eastern woods or guide type gun. Nice hog gun too. To me the BLR version is pretty much a 35 Remington on steroids. It is at least the equal of the old 35 Winchester though. Plenty power up close and personal. My BLR had a VERY tight chamber. Anything less than FL resized wouldn't feed.
For deer I would consider the 200 gn hornady SP. Unfortunately the speer 220 gn fp is no longer made. It seems like 35 caliber bullets have become a real step child with all the long range giddieness and inflation going on. Sucks for us. A good cast bullet is a nice low cost 358 option.
AK-47
The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like.
25 November 2023, 21:08
AtkinsonI had one many moons pased in a pre-64 fwt that I punched out to a 35 gibbs, recoil was beyond description, incredibly snappy so sent it down the road. wish I still had it to resell!!!
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
26 November 2023, 04:22
Hipshootquote:
Originally posted by sambarman338:
As to the scope, if your rifle is light for calibre and you want the optics to last, be careful what you put on it. I would look for a
little ol' reticle-movement Kahles, Pecar, Nickel, S&B or Zeiss/Hensoldt.
However, since they are both rare and tricky to install, Atkinson and I would probably lean towards a more-recent Leupold 2.5x. I'm a bit surprised Ray didn't offer some opinion himself on that
Had at first a Redfield 1-4x on it. Trashed it twice, so I went for the 2-7 Leupold and haven't looked back. That was Many Moons ago!
Hip
Hip
26 November 2023, 04:35
Jgrabow6493That's a good short to medium range rifle. Hammers pigs and deer. I had a low power Leupold on mine. I need to remount it since I can't see the iron sights anymore.
Jim
26 November 2023, 04:52
snowmanI had one of the early Sav 99 rifles in 358. Best little rifle for hunting in heavy bush that I have ever owned. Took several moose with that rifle along with quite a few whitetail. 250 gr Speer worked great on moose. 200 gr Hornady spire pts hammer deer. An all round bullet could be the 200 gr Barnes or the 225 gr Sierra. All leave a big hole that lets lots of blood out.
Ray a question for you. How could the 35 Gibbs you say just pounded you with recoil be much different than the 375 X 62 that you crow up ?? I have a 35 Whelam AI as well as a 375 Whelan AI. The 375 is usually shooting heavier bullets and recoil is significantly heavier,,,,,at least in my rifles.
27 November 2023, 23:51
sjmciGo here and scroll down to "358 sales slow". A little bit of interesting history about the 358.
28 November 2023, 08:04
sambarman338quote:
Originally posted by Hipshoot:
quote:
Originally posted by sambarman338:
As to the scope, if your rifle is light for calibre and you want the optics to last, be careful what you put on it. I would look for a
little ol' reticle-movement Kahles, Pecar, Nickel, S&B or Zeiss/Hensoldt.
However, since they are both rare and tricky to install, Atkinson and I would probably lean towards a more-recent Leupold 2.5x. I'm a bit surprised Ray didn't offer some opinion himself on that
Had at first a Redfield 1-4x on it. Trashed it twice, so I went for the 2-7 Leupold and haven't looked back. That was Many Moons ago!
Hip
Hip
I wouldn't say a 2-7x is too big - that's the size I favor on slightly heavier rifles. The failure of your Redfield scopes was not because of the outward size but probably because, like almost everything made now, they had constantly centred reticles. It is a design that is doomed to fail, simply by the laws of physics, and sooner or later the Leupold will succumb, too.
28 November 2023, 09:29
bpestevequote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
... Make sure the buttock bolt is tight ...
Never a bum idea!
29 November 2023, 08:49
NakihunterI had one in a Mod 70 rebarreled 20 inch. Very sweet handling rifle. 225 gr Game king was lethal on red deer.
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick."
04 December 2023, 02:33
sjmciSorry, forgot the link:
Go here and scroll down to "358 sales slow". A little bit of interesting history about the 358.
https://www.leeroysramblings.c...del_88_100_info.html04 December 2023, 03:35
chuck375I had a cheap Redfield 3-9x tracker on my 270 when I bought it in the late 60s, worked for 40 years, gave it to my son and he put a Leupold 3.5-10x on it. Can't fault hm for that
Regards,
Chuck
"There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit"
Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"
04 December 2023, 05:17
sambarman338Glad to hear that Redfield lasted, Chuck. The 270 doesn't kick much, of course, which helps keep the scope's mini-me inside from 'spitting the dummy'. The chance of that happening seems to increase exponentially as recoil rises.
Even John Barsness, who accepts modern scope design, wrote in his book
Optics for the Hunter that recoil wrecks most scopes over time: "A sturdy scope on a .22 rimfire may last for 100,000 shots, while lesser scopes may go to pieces after ten rounds from a .300 Weatherby, a 12-gauge slug gun, or a .44 Magnum pistol . . ."
02 January 2024, 00:25
AtkinsonOk, the only scope by 99 358 had was a 3X Leupold, I have another 3X and a 2,5X 7/8 tube Leupold Alaskan that held up fine on my 9,3x62, 375 Ruger, and 404 Jefferys. both hard to come by scopes these days. I tend to lean towards a receiver sight on anything over a 375 as a rule but not written in stone...
Its nota long range caliber so go for a wide field of view low power scope such as a 2.5X or 3X both of which will get the job done to 400 yards contrary to some..
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
02 January 2024, 03:05
HasherI have a 2-7 on my 99 in 358.
2x is plenty low for stalking and walking in the woods or on the Kubota doing chores and the 7x top end is more than I will ever need from the stand or a blind.
Current load is a 200 gr TSX about 2 grains below max.
DRSS
Kreighoff 470 NE
Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R
02 January 2024, 18:41
Mike_DettorreHad on in a BLR should of never sold it. 2x7 is just about perfect.
Great rifle for plains game. Have taken zebra, kudu, and waterbuck.
Big fan of the 225 partition in that chambering.
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
05 January 2024, 07:32
308SakoHad an old tang safety Ruger 77 with which I killed a slew of whitetails. Loaned it to a brother in law and when I got it back it was trashed. Later on had a Ruger #1 which started out as a .357 mag. Rechambered first to .357 Maximum, then to .358 Win. Killed a Black Bear with that along with more whitetails. I loved both mainly because of the cartridge. Totally underrated by most, but especially when using appropriate bullets it is a hammer. I really liked the Hornady 250 round nosed until they changed the jacket to a thicker one. H335 was my powder of choice.
Enjoy it!
Member NRA, SCI- Life #358 28+ years now!
DRSS, double owner-shooter since 1983, O/U .30-06 Browning Continental set.
05 January 2024, 16:29
ldmay375quote:
Originally posted by jimatcat:
picked up a nice Browning lever in .358... 1 of the few calibers i don't have and know nothing about...other than its a nice handling rifle...it need a scope... something in a Vortex... any body else shoot 1??.. thanks, jim
I have a BLR Model 81 that I also need to put a scope on. I am undecided as to the scope. I am leaning towards something in the 1-4x range.
Whenever I get around to it, I am going to load some of the Hammer Bullets 203 grain Shock Hammers for it.
05 January 2024, 23:57
AtkinsonSnowman,
I don't know but it did and none of my friends liked it for the same reason, guess it was that snappy light 6 lbs. I shoot a lot of big bores up to the 505 and it kicked too much also but the 470 was shootable for me???? I guess you will have to figure it out, I never could, that's why I sold it.
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
07 January 2024, 04:25
vvreddyI have one in a Ruger Hawkeye Stainless and it has superb performance. I use it a lot for deer with 250gr Speer Hot Cors. I've also used it in Africa upto 200 yards on hartebeest and other game without any problem.
07 January 2024, 21:04
Wstrnhuntrquote:
Originally posted by sambarman338:
Glad to hear that Redfield lasted, Chuck. The 270 doesn't kick much, of course, which helps keep the scope's mini-me inside from 'spitting the dummy'. The chance of that happening seems to increase exponentially as recoil rises.
Even John Barsness, who accepts modern scope design, wrote in his book Optics for the Hunter that recoil wrecks most scopes over time: "A sturdy scope on a .22 rimfire may last for 100,000 shots, while lesser scopes may go to pieces after ten rounds from a .300 Weatherby, a 12-gauge slug gun, or a .44 Magnum pistol . . ."
I know from a strictly mechanical POV that less moving parts means better longevity, but I dont know scopes like you do.
What is your take on fixed power scopes vs variables for withstanding recoil? I had a fixed 4X on my 358 and currently use same on my Whelen. Ive had no problems so far.
AK-47
The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like.
08 January 2024, 07:14
sambarman338Well, WH, almost all scope makers claim their products are shockproof but, as Mandy Rice-Davies might put it, they would, wouldn't they?
My outlook is mostly based on the physics of the matter: whatever can move inside a scope will move under much recoil, and the heavier that stuff is the more it will move and be vulnerable to damage.
To cut the mass subject to recoil inertia, many brands make the erector tube from aluminum alloy instead of brass. This makes some sense but less in variables because aluminum is more likely to gall when the power scroll is turned. (I have seen this in one old Tasco variable, disabled by seemingly minor galling.)
Therefore, variable mechanisms are not only bulkier and more complicated but should have more parts made of heavy, greasy brass, making them more prone to recoil inertia. Broken erector springs are the most-usual result but the erector tube itself can be damaged by whacking back against the turret screws. It can also move forward in its gimbal or ball-joint over time, bringing parallax and bullet-impact problems.
This is mostly theoretical to me because my bigger rifles have always had old reticle-movement scopes in which there is no pivoting erector tube. However, our forum buddy Ray Atkinson has heard modern variables rattling after four or five packets of ammo on his big rifles and is certain that fixed powers are more reliable than variables.
09 January 2024, 10:17
waterratI have my Sako L579 (Forrester) crated up waiting for landing conditions to improve so I can send it to JES for his 358 magic! The 358cal has been so dependable for me and the fact I'd like a bit more compact (lighter) rifle for my homework and boat rifle.Last spring the classifieds here yielded a set of CH dies and 5 boxes of new brass very reasonable and I have a zillion 250 Hot Cores and Horn RN to bring me into my twilight years.
I tend to use more than enough gun
11 January 2024, 05:36
Les StaleyTook in a Howa stainless 1500 243 on trade at a gun show. Didn’t cost me much at all. Jess made it into a nice handy bullet proof 358. Got the three groove bore. Deer hate it.
13 February 2024, 00:37
AtkinsonWell as Sambarman said the compact 2.5X is the toughest scope I've use on big bores so far and my choice for the big bores but in reality, the real big bores suit me better with peep or barrel mounted shallow V.
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
13 February 2024, 02:21
surefire7You’re older than I am Ray. I’m impressed you can still use open sights! I’ve been using open sights on my 404 Jeffery in Africa for some time (I’ll be 73 next month), but have recently put a Leupold fixed 2.5 on it and like it better. Good hunting to you Ray!
26 February 2024, 20:56
AtkinsonSurefire,
I had a 3X Leupold on my 358, it would not shoot fer enough for a 4X!
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com