The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles .270 Win vs .270 WSM vs. .270 WeatherbyGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| .270 Win vs .270 WSM vs. .270 Weatherby | Login/Join |
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Which one to build??? With each cartridge running faster that the previous, does that mean pressures are higher? If pressures are higher, will that adversely affect barrel/throat life? Are you gaining that much with each? Opinions, suggestions, personal experiences welcome. Thanks! MIBIGHNTR | ||
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quote:Nope, pressures are longer. Peak pressures are not that much different among these cartridges, but the amount of powder burned is. If you picture an assymetrical, humped curve, then you'll get the picture. Pressure rises quickly to a peak value, then tails off much more slowly to whatever the final muzzle pressure is. The magnums tend to have higher muzzle pressures, and the pressure curve also tends to be more stretched out horizontally because they are using slow burning powders. That means that the total area under the pressure curve (whether you're looking at pressure as a function of time or pressure as a function of the distance the bullet has traveled) is greater with the magnums than the 270 Win, and that means more energy and more velocity. | |||
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Someone can correct me as I am going off of memory, but you will gain maybe 200 fps with the .270 Weatherby over the .270 Win. using the standard 130 and 150 grain bullet weights. The usual arguments apply - reduced barrel life - only a factor if you plan on shooting a 500-1000 shots per year, greater blast, greate recoil although no .270 is going to belt you all that hard. Mainly - and this is PURELY personal opinion - the .270 Win. is one of those "perfectly balanced" cartridges like a .30-30, i.e. for it's intended use you really won't get much better by gaining velocity. It has more than enough punch for the type of animals one hunts with it, it has a more than flat enough trajectory for those same animals, and it does this with the minimum amount of bark and bite necessary on the shooter's end of the equation. AND, nicest of all, like the .30-30, the bullets it fires are optimized for .270 Winchester muzzle velocities and the resulting impact velocities one can expect for 99.99% of the ranges at which it will be used. Additional miscellaneous stuff: Cost of factory ammo is considerably less, reloading is a teensy less costly with the .270 Win. due to lower powder charges - admittedly not a huge difference, ammo availability is, like, everywhere for the .270 Win. I mean, okay, 200 fps IS 200 fps, and you will gain a couple inches of trajectory w-a-y on out yonder, but is it really worth it? The .270 Win., .30-30, .30-06 etc. have stood the test of time because they do the job they were intended to do just as fine as fine can be. Again, JMHO. [ 03-01-2003, 00:54: Message edited by: Jim in Idaho ] | |||
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what if you had two rifles one in .270 the other in .270 weatherby or even 7mm rem mag both rifles hade a 22 inch barrel is there really going to be noticeable velocity difference between these rifles. | |||
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quote:Not a lot. Because the pressure curves of the magnums stay higher longer and finish higher at the muzzle, cutting the barrel short has more effect on the magnums than on the 270 Win. It also has more effect on the 270 Weatherby than on the 7mm Rem Mag: the reduced volume of the smaller 270 bore tends to mean that the smaller-bored magnum has a higher muzzle pressure, and thus loses more velocity with equal barrel shortening. | |||
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IMHO the big advantage of the .270WBY comes at longer ranges in longer barrels, the ability to launch 150 grainers at 3,200 fps out of a 26" barrel. I don't see any good reason for a 26" barrel on a .270 win as the extra barrel is not buying you much. Likewise, a 22" .270 WBY does not make much sense to me as it does not take advantage of the extra case capacity. I believe the 22" .270 win is an excellant rifle to carry in the woods, while the 26" .270 WBY is just the thing for sitting on a stand where you can see out 400-500 yds. BD | |||
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If you want more velocity than the standard 270 get the 270 WSM. It will add 200+ fps over the old 270. They get almost the same velocity as the 270 Weatherby, especially if you take into account the 23-24" wsm barrels vs the 26" Weatherby. The brass is reasonbly priced (cheaper than weatherby brass),is plentifuly, it uses less powder to reload. I'm even starting to see factory loads in lots of stores. Walmart for example | |||
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quote:No way. It will add about 100fps to the 130's, and only match velocity with the 150's. | |||
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why build?....Savage 12fvss....270wsm...you get a pillar bedded stock, 26" stainless fluted barrel, and the new accu-trigger....out the door for under $500. weight is slighty over 8 lbs. I'm guessing you can get 3350 for 130's in handloads. close to 3100 in 150's.....or maybe some varmit action with 110's at 3500? ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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Ok,The battle of the 270's very intresting topic. having used the 270 for close to 40 yr's, imade a change up to the 270 wsm. But before i did i done some extinsive research. Dollar's being of value,performance,new dies,time working up loads was it all going to be worth it? I used a crony, i had acess to all 3 guns.Using the same bullet a 140 gr.horn,bt. I went to the range for a day fun! and it was super! To sum it up quick i found the wsm, to exceed wby. In vel, so close in traj it was apples and well you know.with way less rec.cheaper to rel,cheaper to purches. I have no ax to grind on wby,i own 340 i use on elk,and have tested on blacktail. I love my wby but i try to be practical. All though my wife would dissagree. I found the dollar performance vallue for me to be worth the move, and have never looked back just my 2 cents. | |||
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| <Buliwyf> |
Build the 270 Weatherby Magnum. Significant velocity increase over the 270 Winchester. Flat shooting cability is what the .277 caliber is all about. Buliwyf | ||
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"I'm guessing you can get 3350 for 130's in handloads." I'd add to the guess,3400+ with the 26 bbl.I'm getting over 3300 with a "conservative max" load 24 inch bbl. Jeff | |||
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I can get 3100fps from 150's in a 24" .270 win. | |||
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Out of your choices, I like the 270 Win. If you wanted really fast and flat, I'd opt for the 257 Wby every time. Brass/ammo's expensive but it's a killin' machine!!! | |||
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I havent even shot my 270 weatherby yet.One load i have looked up shows 3500 fps 130G bullet.I dont think the 270 wsm can even sniff that velocity | |||
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I would stay with the .270 Winchester, If it is out of range for a 270 then it is too far away to be shooting at....400 yards is a maximum range and only for a few..beyond that is unsportsmanlike and show disrespect for a fine game animal...I am as guilty as the next guy of shooting at extended ranges, but as I grew older and after a few bad experiences, I figured it out...I can hit an animal every shot at up to 600 yards for sure and sometimes beyond that, but I never know where I am going to hit him...A bad shot just misses and goes on, as I have said before therein lies the problem...If your a good shot then you more than anyone else should turn down shots beyond 400 and most of those are two far....... | |||
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3100 + fps with a 150 gr in a 270 - wow?! Trying to get 3000 fps with a 150 gr in a 30-06 is a trick. With RL22 and a 24" barrel on my 270 the highest I have gotten is 2980 and the primer pockets are loose after two reloads - I dropped it to 2900 fps. I have never gotten the velocities with 4350, 4831, RL19 that I have with RL22 including 130 gr bullets. | |||
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| <Buliwyf> |
I'd appreciate hearing the load data to push a 150 grain bullet at 3100 fps out of a 270 Winchester. | ||
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quote:And Nosler can't get much over 3000 out of the 270 WSM! ------------------------------------------------- It's not going to make any difference what cartridge you shoot. They all use the same bullet. Get a 270 Featherweight with a 22" barrel and be happy. It will be a handy rifle. If you must have a long range hammer then go all the way. Get a bigger caliber and a long barrel. Then you will have something. | |||
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| <John Lewis> |
The .270 Wthby is an awfully good cartridge. I've killed a lot of deer with my Ruger #1 in that chambering. And I build a few .270 Wthbys every year for customers. | ||
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Buliwyf; I'm with you I'd like to see that Data Too! Sounds like so much BULLSTICK to me or is that why the name change, MajorCaliber I mean gsf1200, I mean Major or what ever it was. ![[Confused]](images/icons/confused.gif){kind=icon} I think the last one I heard out of this guy was 3200fps for a 140gr bullet out of a 270Winchester! ![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif){kind=icon} [ 03-06-2003, 05:46: Message edited by: Marsh Mule ] | |||
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quote:I'd like to see the data too (particularly pressure data), but at least the claims are consistent: the energy of a 3200fps 140 is almost exactly the same as the energy of a 3100fps 150. I still find it hard to believe that you can safely get that much energy out of a 270Win when the highest numbers I've seen for a 270WSM are "only" 3275fps for a 140. | |||
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"I still find it hard to believe that you can safely get that much energy out of a 270Win" I think "safely" is the keyword there.This is another reason why I don't shoot at a range.I feel that flying pieces of metal and anatomy,screams and ambulance sirens,would probably throw my shooting off. ![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif){kind=icon} Jeff [ 03-06-2003, 14:42: Message edited by: jsr ] | |||
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Some of this BS is getting deep. LOL Well I have a Weatherby vanguard VGX with only a 24" barrel and I use factory weatherby ammo and with 150 grainers I get 3250 over my chrony every time with some 3245's thrown in from time to time. I am not using a 26 incher at all only 24 so the win cannot sniff the weatherby at all. I had a 270 win and ended up selling it and got my weatherby years ago and am glad I did. I love this round and is my favorit rifle I own. The 270 is or was based around long range deer size game and the weatherby does this in spades. And no the WSM does not beat it sorry. Brian | |||
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quote:58grs of AA-3100 Federal case and primer 150gr Nosler ballistic tip. Does 3109fps in my 24" barrel. The Accurate #2 manual lists this load at 3143fps from a 22" barrel. I also get over 3000fps from RL-22 58.5grs in a Win case and primer 150gr Ballistic tip, and this is a mild load in my gun, very accurate though, and is amazing on deer. If you think I have a "Fast" chrono, Remington 150gr Corelokts go 2514fps from my 24" rifle. [ 03-08-2003, 17:02: Message edited by: Major Caliber ] | |||
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Boy that must be some "Magic Powder" you got there! That wouldn't happen to be the 3100 they have on RECALL right now would it! ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} Better check that lot number! | |||
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Why concern yourself with results you will never see on game? Get any one of them. Personaily the 270win suits me just fine. Generally people who concern themselves about barrel wear, need not worry because they never shoot enough rounds to get to that point, whereas those who do obviously know money will replace a new one. | |||
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My Accurate Smokeless Powder manual does list 58gr as the max with 3100 but only 2894fps out of a 24inch. | |||
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quote:Different manual, and a different lot of powder. They have changed sources of 3100 3 times that I know of, Accurate buys surplus lots of powder. | |||
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1996 book lists 2894 fps 2001 book lists 2894 fps | |||
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2nd edition accurate manual printed October 1985, page 8 shows a 150gr speer, fed210m primer, fed case 58gr's AA-3100 3143fps with a 22" barrel | |||
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And with all this shooting you claim to do, let me guess, You just so happen to still have some of this same powder they tested with almost TWENTY YEARS AGO. | |||
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I'm a little curious how Accurate published their Number 2 manual in '85 and their Number 1 manual in '94. I have both and my Number 2 shows a 2000 publishing date, and and 2894 fps as the speed. Are we talking about the same manuals here? Perhaps MC is refering to one of the small booklets they have published over the years. Just curious. - Dan | |||
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quote:We are talking 2 different animals, they have the free book, and the hardbound forsale edition. Accurate has been selling 3100 since 1977. | |||
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quote:Absolutely!!! I have 1.5 lbs left. You don't stockup on powder you like? I know people that still have 60yr old powder, still works fine. I was just shooting some 8x57 made in 1941. I have some reloads that are 20yrs old. | |||
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I wold have to agree that the .270 Wthby is faster by a pretty good margin. We get over 3500 FPS with 130 gr bullets and over 3300 with 150s from my buddy's .270 Wthby. Absolutely no signs of pressure. This is with IMR-7828 powder. As much as I like the .270 Wthby, I may get a WSM just for practicality's sake. Darn good speed in a lighter, shorter rifle. | |||
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quote:Since your talking about building I would be more inclined to pick the caliber based on the donor action you get your hands on. I think the quality of the rifle and smithing work is much more important than a couple hundred feet per second. | |||
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Major Caliber: I can believe it when you say you are getting 3100 + with 150 gr Bullets in a 270 Win and 24"bbl. My uncle has one with a 24"barrel has Clocked 3100fps with some older PMC factory loads,and 3150+ fps with factory 130 Win.Ballistic Silver Tips.He has gotton close to and over 3000 with handloads with 130 to 150 grs in it. I was shocked at the range the the day we clocked the above factory loads as well as a few handloads for his 270,and a Buddy of mine 264 Win Mag.The .264 using a max charge of H-870 and 129 bullets was at about 3175 to 3225 as I recall. Futher Based on the above,my own readings with a 300 WSM and the data seen for the 270 WSM.I think I would go with a 270 Win. and a 24 BBL over 270 WSM for Now.All of which makes me wonder what the ol 3006 would do with a 24 BBl.I might have to get one and find out. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles .270 Win vs .270 WSM vs. .270 Weatherby
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