I recently read an Internet comment on the 7mm bore. I interpreted this individual as saying he saw no real use for any of the 7mm’s. The .24 to .26 calibers were all very practical covering 1 spectrum of hunting – he said – going on to say the next level up of practicality would be to skip the .27 and .28’s and go right to the .30’s. IMO, there was some merit to what he said as so many of the cartridges do overlap, not to mention the overwhelming popularity and effectiveness of the proven .30’s.

But I got to thinking about this and one of my all time favorite cartridges, the .35 Whelen.

IMO, the .260 Rem and it’s counterparts can easily do most of what the .243 will do, and do it far better on WT & larger game. Moving up in performance, the .280 and 7mm Rem Mag demonstrate some very impressive distance, trajectory and terminal ballistics. That includes Elk and Moose. Both are effective and more than just adequate with good bullets up to the task. And recoil while doing this? Typically less than the various .300’s. Flat string trajectories, excellent BC’s and SD’s, what’s not to like? Both the .280 and the 7 RM are established rounds, with long histories of proven reliability.

And now, we bash the .30’s? Not hardly. Not enough paper to write down all the advantages the .30’s bring. But, speaking of overlap, we’ve made a good case for 2 excellent 7mm’s. So why move to a .30 on the way up the practical scale? Why not just go from the 7 RM to a .33 or .35? That seems a more practical jump and increase.

If you’re willing to do the terminal ballistic comparisons, the Whelen absolutely shines downrange with 225 and 250 gr bullets compared to the ’06 and 300 Win using 180’s and 200 gr. Yes, the .338 has advantages over both but at the cost of substantially increased recoil. And yes, various .300’s can reach out further than the Whelen. But the Whelen is an honest 350 yard cartridge, putting it firmly into all reasonable hunting applications for game up to and including the big bears.

I’m sure my comparison formula can be shifted to favor your caliber choices vs mine. And that’s OK. We are truly blessed to have so many choices. I decided to write this because I own a .260 Rem (22” 1:8), a 7 RM, a .300 WSM and a Whelen. The WSM is a tack driver. The other 3 are no less its accuracy equal. Using my argument for 3 rifles instead of 4, my WSM will soon find a new owner.

Cheers.

I have a Ruger 77RS in .35 Whelen that I took to the range this morning. It is a rifle that a stockmaker trimmed the stock down on, put a forend cap on, a leather recoil pad . . . rifle looks like a British bolt action rifle. I have owned it for a number of years but have not played much with it. This morning I loaded up some rounds with 59 grains of RL15, WLR primers and 225 grain Nosler Partition bullets. I was very pleased with how rifle shot. Recoil is not bad at all and the rifle put six shots into about a 1" group about 1.5" high. I feel comfortable that you could just put the crosshairs on the target out to 250 yards with no problem . . . I am thinking about using it this year for deer season.

Task 1

Good choices!

I too like the 35 Whelen a whole lot. I use it for elk hunting here in CO, and I took mine to Africa last year and took Leopard, Lechwe, Hartebeest, Bushbuck, and Oribi.

I took a 7mmRM along too, but my choice would be a 280 Rem.

Since I hunt Africa, all I would have to add to these two is my 404 Jeffery, and I'm covered for my hunting, both NA and Africa. These would simply be my choices, but not saying the best choice. As you stated, people can use your formula to justify whatever works for them.

I like these three as they can get the jobs done for which they were designed very nicely, plus the rifles can be made light, short (22" barrels are fine. My Whelen and 280 both have 22" but my 404 is 23") and they produce fairly mild recoil in their caliber classes. One now has a light, medium, and heavy rifle battery with a 20, 30, and 40 caliber. It's a nice spread, using light/short rifles, with acceptable recoil levels.

My favorite? They all have their own special purpose, but I really like medium bores, and I really like that Whelen!

I like my Whelen. Probably one of my ugliest rifles but it is light, and shoots well!

The 35 Whelen has been my favorite caliber for years. I use mine for black bears and deer here in PA. I have a 35 whelen mauser bolt action and a remington 7600 that have both been the hammer of thor on game shooting 250 grain hornadys. Deer have gone straight down. The bears have only gone a few yards.

your dealing with opinion, and its a ridiculus subject on his part..One caliber is as good as another in that class range, comparisons are normally so slanted that again its ridiculus, Some scribe painting a great picture of his 7-08 vs. 7x57, then loading the 7-08 up or using factory loads, and at the same time comparing down loaded reloading book data that's loaded for 95 and 96 and rolling block actions..I use this as only an example, and most know the 7-08 can't touch the 7x57 in a fair fight and loaded to the same POI in like rifles.

I like the 30-06 and the 7x57 in that class range this week, maybe a .308 and a 257 next week..but when push comes to shove I'll always revert to the 06 and 7x57..but there are dozens of other combos that are just as good..Shot placement and bullet construction is a better way to spend ones extra time.

Your internet fellow just tells me he suffers from delusions of adequacy, and he is using the internet to support as opposed to illumination..

Ray,

As someone who enjoys your posts, your perspective on this is correct, especially when it comes to placement and bullets – the King and Queen of these types of discussions. Obviously I disagreed with the gentleman who dismissed the 7’s.

I’ve hunted my 300 WSM with the 150 gr Accubond at chronographed 3,200 fps+, a formidable and very effective combination. This rifle sits in my safe beside my 7 RM which can realistically duplicate and sometimes somewhat surpass the 300 with “middle weight” bullets – external and terminal ballistics – with slightly less recoil. And why I find the RM appealing for my MD and antelope hunts where ranges can get “out there.” For these applications, it is a big stick.

When I consider both of these 2 rifles for CPX 2 game, I prefer the 7 RM. The differences with the 300 WSM can be quibbled over but I prefer the 7. If I did not have my Whelen (& .458 Win) in the safe, I know I would lean towards the 300 with larger bullets that have rightfully staked out great reputations. But I do have the Whelen, a Rem 700 spiffed up a bit. A joy to carry and hunt with, a greatly underestimated and under appreciated cartridge. The 7 RM and Whelen make my 300 an overlapping cartridge in my safe. Which, by saying that, infers nothing negative about the WSM, whatsoever. Which was the point of my original post. It simply points out advantages of certain cartridges, with each of us looking at the menu of calibers and choosing which advantages / cartridge we wish to favor.

This is all for discussions purposes and makes no claims on “best.” I’ll leave that to the “experts.” ☺

Happy holidays everyone and GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS,….. MAY GOD KEEP EACH AND EVERY ONE SAFE.

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:
Task 1

Good choices!

I too like the 35 Whelen a whole lot. I use it for elk hunting here in CO, and I took mine to Africa last year and took Leopard, Lechwe, Hartebeest, Bushbuck, and Oribi.

I took a 7mmRM along too, but my choice would be a 280 Rem.

Since I hunt Africa, all I would have to add to these two is my 404 Jeffery, and I'm covered for my hunting, both NA and Africa. These would simply be my choices, but not saying the best choice. As you stated, people can use your formula to justify whatever works for them.

I like these three as they can get the jobs done for which they were designed very nicely, plus the rifles can be made light, short (22" barrels are fine. My Whelen and 280 both have 22" but my 404 is 23") and they produce fairly mild recoil in their caliber classes. One now has a light, medium, and heavy rifle battery with a 20, 30, and 40 caliber. It's a nice spread, using light/short rifles, with acceptable recoil levels.

My favorite? They all have their own special purpose, but I really like medium bores, and I really like that Whelen!

+1. Hard to leave the house with my Whelen and not be totally confident. The Rodney Dangerfield of cartridges.

Very interesting und schmart 2. roger

Well...I've been playing this hunting, shooting and handloading game for something over 50 years. During that time I have narrowed my cartridge selection down to only those between 24 caliber and 50 caliber....unless you count muzzleloaders then I have to raise it to 62 cal. Those are the only ones a fella really needs...all the others are unnecessary fluff...

The near duplication of so many is obvious and I'm as guilty as the next in that I have more cartridges that are close to each other than vastly different...but I sure have fun with them all!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by sharps4590:
Well...I've been playing this hunting, shooting and handloading game for something over 50 years. During that time I have narrowed my cartridge selection down to only those between 24 caliber and 50 caliber....unless you count muzzleloaders then I have to raise it to 62 cal. Those are the only ones a fella really needs...all the others are unnecessary fluff...

The near duplication of so many is obvious and I'm as guilty as the next in that I have more cartridges that are close to each other than vastly different...but I sure have fun with them all!!!!

Me too sharps. 55 years and counting! Lots and lots of experimenting and untold trips to the bench. Have reached the point where I want to simplify and thin the herd in my safe a bit. Time for a few safe queens to mosey on down the road into welcoming hands.

quote:

Originally posted by sharps4590:
Well...I've been playing this hunting, shooting and handloading game for something over 50 years. During that time I have narrowed my cartridge selection down to only those between 24 caliber and 50 caliber....unless you count muzzleloaders then I have to raise it to 62 cal. Those are the only ones a fella really needs...all the others are unnecessary fluff...

The near duplication of so many is obvious and I'm as guilty as the next in that I have more cartridges that are close to each other than vastly different...but I sure have fun with
them all!!!!

Geez, 24-50 caliber. Why limit yourself?

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:

quote:

Originally posted by sharps4590:
Well...I've been playing this hunting, shooting and handloading game for something over 50 years. During that time I have narrowed my cartridge selection down to only those between 24 caliber and 50 caliber....unless you count muzzleloaders then I have to raise it to 62 cal. Those are the only ones a fella really needs...all the others are unnecessary fluff...

The near duplication of so many is obvious and I'm as guilty as the next in that I have more cartridges that are close to each other than vastly different...but I sure have fun with
them all!!!!

Geez, 24-50 caliber. Why limit yourself?

LOL!!!

To my mind there are many more calibres, cartridges and combinations of these than anyone NEEDS.

In actual fact a hunter COULD get by with a .22 LR, a .22 centrefire and a .30-06 as well as a large calibre if he hunted big bears or Africa, but it would be deadly dull.

I'll be honest and admit that most of my rifle are totally not necessary except to make me happy because I WANT them - and that should be a good enough reason. Damn this logic .... go with your heart.

If half the time devoted to caliber and mechanical issues was spent on practice, rifle familiarity, etc. there would be far less missed, wounded or lost game.

I guess almost every calibre has some niche value. The 35 Whelen's is IMHO for use against Australian sambar in thick bush, married to the Remington 7600, despite its slow rifling.

In a country where semi-autos are illegal for most sporting purposes, that combination is pretty much as good as it gets for wary critters that don't hang a round long.

The 338WM is more powerful and flatter shooting for the rare long shot but only comes in bolt-actions, out here.

Verney Carron make a pump in 9.3x62 but it is a strange-looking beast at a higher price. Doubles in 9.3x74 might be cooler but you really have to pay for most of them.

There's only one best caliber. It's the .333 Flanged Jeffrey, period, no further discussion. So please stop your ramblings, it's settled.

Show us yours, MD!

What got my attention here is the 35 Whelen. Also a favorite around here in Arizona. We have shot Bison, Elk, Deer, Coyotes, even jack rabbits with it all with great success. Trying to fit things around the Whelen, I guess all I would need is a good 22 center fire, maybe 223 or a Swift, but I can't do it. Like Ray I may want a 30-06 or a 270 Winchester, 6.5-06, or even a 6mm-06 tomorrow. I enjoy lots of different cartridges and rifles. Spice of life.

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
I guess almost every calibre has some niche value. The 35 Whelen's is IMHO for use against Australian sambar in thick bush, married to the Remington 7600, despite its slow rifling.

As many on this forum have stated previously, it's a shame that Remington saddled the 35 Whelen with a 1:16 twist. I am told Ruger did the same, but I have a Ruger Mark II with a 1:14 twist and my Ruger Hawkeyes have 1:12 twist, all factory rifles. My Dakota 35W also has a 1:12 twist. I have sold my two Remingtons in 35 Whelen, a CDL and a Classic for this reason and also because I prefer CRF.

My goal right now is developing (custom loading) a load of 275 gr. @ 2,500 fps for my Whelen, and for that, I appreciate my 1:12 Whelens.

I could easily sell all of my rifles except for my .30-06 and my .22 LR and be set for all of the hunting I do, but that wouldn't be much fun.

While I understand the utility and appeal of the 35's, in moving from the 7mm or 30 into the mediums I would go straight to the 375 bore. I say this having used and loaded for the 338 WM, 340 Weatherby, 35 Whelen,358 STA,375H&H,375 Ruger and 375 AI.

The smaller medium rounds are easily duplicated by the 375's and really offer nothing much over a 375 cartridge.

Just my opinion but that's what makes horse races.

I hear ya Eastcoaster. I love and use the 375 myself. I agree with your advice on moving up to a 375 from a 30. In fact, as we all know, it has been a very popular battery over the many years of safari hunting from Roosevelt ( although the 375 wasn't invented yet, he used his Lion medicine ), through Ruark and many others, especially when a 458 caliber was added for a three rifle battery.

Personally, however, for a 7mm, I like the 35s and 36s for the next step up. I have used the 30/375/458 battery myself and loved it. Lately, I have been using my 404 Jeffery for my 'heavy', so I have gone smaller on the medium as I feel the 375 is just too close performance-wise (not as good, just too close) to the 404. Last year I took a 7mm/35/404 to Zambia and love it too.

If one starts with a 404 or 416, I also feel a 338 is great to pair-up with either, vs. a 375. In 2014 I took a two rifle battery, 404 and 338, to Zambia and it worked perfectly for me. So again, it all depends on what you start with.

I feel your choice of a 30/375 is excellent. What I have enjoyed with my 338, 35 and 36 rifles, is their lighter weight and shorter overall length compared to my 375 H&H. Having said that, my Ruger Hawkeye African in 375 Ruger, weighs 7 3/4 lbs. and is a very nice short/compact rifle, for a safari rifle. That rifle, of standard length action just like a 338WM, 35W, 9.3x62, 358NM, etc. makes one stop and think. However, it's recoil is heavier than my 375H&H ( naturally, with higher velocity and a lighter rifle ), so I still have a soft spot for my beloved 35 Whelen. Of course, it's not as good on DG as a 375, but that is why I pair it with my 404.

As you said, this makes horse racing interesting. No one is wrong if they are happy and well served.

I like all 17 through 24's for varmints and all 24 through 50 for big game.
There's my selection and I've made up my mind to never stray from this......unless I feel like popping a deer with my 22-250 of whacking a marmot with my 25-06 or 270... but you get my point.
There's so much overlap that it's impossible to not find something great about a particular bore size or cartridge design.
Hell, I love then all!
Zeke

The whole "overlap" argument can be spun and twisted to represent or discredit nearly any caliber or cartridge one likes or dislikes. It is subjectivity on steroids. One of the most important reasons to me for liking some of the calibers I do like is bullet availability. For instance, sometimes I wish my Whelen was a 338-06 because of the many excellent 225 gn slugs in that caliber. Oh well. Nothing wrong with 225 gn Partitions.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
For instance, sometimes I wish my Whelen was a 338-06 because of the many excellent 225 gn slugs in that caliber. Oh well. Nothing wrong with 225 gn Partitions.

I used the 250gr NP in Zambia last year with my 35 Whelen and was very happy with the results. I also used the 280 Swift A-Frame.

My wife and I like the 225gr. Trophy Bonded Bearclaw in that caliber as well.

As you said, perhaps not as good a selection as the 338 caliber, but plenty of good bullets to hunt with in the Whelen.

In Alaska the .7mm Magnum is popular, specially in the interior, perhaps because of the very large and open hunting areas. But the .30-06, .300WM, and .338WM are the most popular. The .375 is farther behind, but more popular in the coastal areas, and Kodiak, perhaps because of the larger bears. While some hunters use the .35Whelen, it's nowhere near the front in popularity with Alaska hunters, maybe because ammo for it is not readily available at the stores (I don't really know). The same can be said for the 8mm RM.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Alaska:
In Alaska the .7mm Magnum is popular, specially in the interior, perhaps because of the very large and open hunting areas. But the .30-06, .300WM, and .338WM are the most popular. The .375 is farther behind, but more popular in the coastal areas, and Kodiak, perhaps because of the larger bears. While some hunters use the .35Whelen, it's nowhere near the front in popularity with Alaska hunters, maybe because ammo for it is not readily available at the stores (I don't really know). The same can be said for the 8mm RM.

That is certainly true I believe Ray. Whelen ammo is simply not that plentiful for sure. And the most abundant is probably the slow Remington ammo, which does not show off the Whelen's potential.

The Whelen is probably a handloader's caliber, but good ammo can be bought from Nosler and Double Tap, but that's about it if you want fast heavier bullets in the Whelen, which I do. I've bought custom ammo from Superior and am working with another loader right now, but your statement is correct I believe. And too bad too. The Whelen is a great round. If one were strictly concerned with buying ammo off the shelf in remote places, I'd be using a 338WM, and put up with the extra weight and length of the rifle and recoil of the round. I use the 338WM a lot and love it's capabilities. I just find that within 300 yards, the Whelen will do what my 338 will, with a more convenient rifle to carry and a little less recoil to deal with. No big deal, but I prefer my Whelen.

I have trimmed my hunting rifles to download to three.
6.5-06, love it, but I don't hunt much with it.
35 Whelen, this is my go-to rifle.
404 Jeffery, my want to hunt with rifle.
My 35 = confidence!
I have had/enjoyed other rifles, it has just worked out that these have suited me well.
Welcome to America, you are not wrong for choosing something else, but these are what I chose.
Doug

Drm-hp,

Sounds like you and I think a lot alike. I like your 6.5-06, 35, 404 battery. I've always wanted a 6.5-06, but never could talk myself into it as I own a 6.5x55 Swede, 270 and a 280.

What am I saying? What does practicality have anything to do with want?!

there are no flys on the 35 Whelen or theh 7mm Rem mag. both will slay game with precision..

I do feel the 35 Whelen, although a fantastic killer is a short to mid range cartridge along with its ilk, I call them 300 yard max cartridges, and actually game should not be shot beyond that as a rule IMO...

All that said, consider the 300 H&H, Wby, 30-338 etc with 200 gr. spt. Noslers, at 3000 FPS plus a tad, they got a lot going for them at any range..as does the 7 mag. with a 175 gr. Nosler at 2800 FPS. These will reach out there and tag'em, and they are deadly at 50 yards as well..

Both parties make a pretty good case..I never worry about such things..just hand me a gun of about any caliber (within reson) and I'll adjust to the caliber and make do. I never make the caliber adjust to me...

These rifle calibers are much more alike than they are different. When fed quality bullets that are suitable for the job at hand they do a good job. Life would be very boring if I had to limit my battery to the rifles that I need. I frequently hunt with a different caliber because I want something different to play with. Like most Americans I seldom hunt anything other than deer, black bear, elk, moose or antelope. A one rifle battery works just fine. 30/06.

I have limited my battery of guns on more than a few occasions over the years as I know I need nothing more than a 30-06, so I sell everything off and have lots of money in the bank to buy more guns, doesn't every one do this!!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I have limited my battery of guns on more than a few occasions over the years as I know I need nothing more than a 30-06, so I sell everything off and have lots of money in the bank to buy more guns, doesn't every one do this!!

More times than I care to admit Ray. Although, if you-know-who is around, I will deny this as viscious lies and slandering.

I've only sold two guns. A Ruger M77 in 270 that wouldn't shoot better than 2" Sure I got a lemon, heard good things about them, and a Ruger P90 pistol, that worked fine, just didn't do anything for me. The kids are going to inherit a bunch of guns