Hi all

I am looking at some old German drillings, and the caliber 9.3*72R is in some of them. Pre WW1.

But, I do not know the -72R....Any one here hunt with it? How is it? Good, or better go for a 9.3*74R?

the 9x72 is a rather mild thing, found on lots of drillings. the 9x74 is a different thing - close to a 375. i don't believe i've ever seen on on a drilling, but i suppose there are some out there somewhere

Thanks. Well, I know, think, it was made some drillings for the German air force in 9.3*74R with 2* 12 gauge.

But, the 72R, is to mild? I mean for wild boar and small deer?

I've heard the 9.3x72 described as comparable to the 38-55 Win and the 35 Remington by different people. Typically you're looking at a 200 gr bullet at 1800-2100 fps. That would be high end for a 38-55 and about the same as 35 Rem. This is for nitro powders of course. Make sure your gun is nitro proved. As you said "old drillings" they may be black powder proved.

Small deer? Certainly. Boar? I don't know boar, but if "small deer" calibers are usually suffiecient then you shouldn't have a problem.

Good luck

Nick

Hello and thanks for replying
Well, the 9.3*72R is a bit on the down side talking boar.....I did learn that when reading about it. Yes, it is a nice interesting caliber.

I do not have a gun, yet, in the caliber, just looking at some drillings in it and are playing with the idea of a roe deer, wild boar drilling.

Thanks for your interesting post again!
I've been thinking along the same lines, myself.

The obvious choice to me is the 9,3x74R because of ammo availability and the great flexibility of the caliber.
The 72mm is far more rare, and, indeed very mild.
I don't see why it could not be used for boar (especially with good bullets), but it is rather mild for that.
The .308, 7mms and even 6,5mms are fairly common boar calibers; and in Estonia where I hunt a lot the locals even use 16ga shotguns with slugs. So sure, it can be done; but you'll get no advantage over the 74mm round.

Most of the drillings I have seen have been with fairly small rifle calibers; probably to keep the weight down. I have also seen 9,3x74R chamberings. I have never actually held one, but I've seen sales ads and like of drillings with two rifle barrels, one smaller and one larger, and then often the rifle barrel has been in 9,3x74R. I've handled double shotgun/one rifle barrel in 9,3x74R drillings. So I would not exactly call it rare; but for sure a smaller rifle barrel is more common.

But here's a suggestion: why not look for an 8mm? There have been plenty made and it is a dandy caliber with very good ammunition and premium bullets readily available in Europe where you also are based.
In fact, when you look at the power figures, I think (I didn't really check this) that the 8mm actually overpowers the 9,3x72R.
I have a vague recollection that the 72R was initially a black-powder cartridge, and therefore so mild.

To use the 9,3mm on roe is no problem, as was concluded on another thread. So in this regard, yo do not need to look for a smaller bore.

I alwys seem to get the 9,3x72R and the 9,3x74R confused! So had to look them up again.

• 9,3x72R = 193 grain bullet at 1,950 fps
  
• 9,3x74R = 285 grain bullet at 2,360 fps
  

Big difference!

Probably shouldn't comment here as I haven't shot game with the 9.3 yet. But I have a double barrel set in 9.3 for my Valmet. Have shot it a bit and it would be effective for most North American game. The X74 should be good for anything Europe has available. I hope to own a drilling one day. Packy

The 9.3x72R is a cartridge that made the transition from Black Powder of Smokeless and like Nick has mentioned I've also heard of the comparison between the 9.3x72R & the 38-55.

Here in the Fatherland you can shoot Roe Deer (small game) with a rifle that produces 1000 Joules of energy at 100 meters.

For Large Game (Hochwild= Red Stag, Wild Boar, Sika & Fallow Deer), requires a minimum caliber of 6.5mm and must produce 2000 Joules of energy at 100 meters.

According to my Frankonia catalog the only RWS load listed for the 9.3x72R (193 gr. bullet) produces 1416 Joules at 100 meters and therefore would not qualify as a "Big Game" cartridge here in Germany.

I have a Drilling chambered for 9.3x74R; a 20x20x9.3x74R. Very effective cartridge for Continental sized Game.

You can find the 9.3x72R ammo on the drilling hotline but its expensive,RWS and sellior & Bellot?Make it but will have to search for it sometimes,I like it,its a accurate round that reminds me of a 30-30, i hope this helps.I would use it on big game no problem,but would take a inside 100yrd.shot and place it well....The cartridge is very long...

Hello hello all

Thanks for all the replys to me.

Well, yes, the*72R is not a big game caliber. Today.
But, I am sure it will make a GOOD roe deer caliber, and even better so in a drilling, maybe 2*-72R and a 16 gauge.....A dream gun.

But, as you all say, it is a bit weak for the biger game, like boar or red deer.

Hi all

Yes, sorry forgot to add that..But, why not a 7-8 mm? well, it is coz I am a fan of the 9.3...and yes, just that I like to have one. If I can find a good one that is.

But, yes, it is maybe better to go for one of the 7 or 8 mm R calibers, they are stil around and more easy to find guns in to....to bad that is.

quote:

Originally posted by vegard_dino:
Yes, sorry forgot to add that..But, why not a 7-8 mm? well, it is coz I am a fan of the 9.3...and yes, just that I like to have one. If I can find a good one that is.

My dear fellow; that is the most excellent reason!

Thanks...thanks.
I think so to

I checked for you over on www.drillinghotline.com & they have the New S&B 193GR. 9.3x72R ammo in stock for 80.00 a box of 20.Same price for the 9.3x74R....Good Luck!

wow

Thanks alot!!
I will mail them

Thanks

When I was in contact with them some years ago the German DEVA said that they had pressure tested loding data for the 9,3x72R which took it over the German limit of 2000 for big game. It was supposed to be in their Reloading Book. I never bought the Drilling that was the reason for my question so I don't know more about it.
//K9

Most old drillings found here from production dates until 1930 or se were chambered in 9.3x72 R. Modern drillings are quite commonly found in the modern 9.3x74 R. Since they are usually rather on the heavier side, it does not really kick a lot.

The flatter shooting but also classic alternative would be 7x65 mm R.

quote:

Originally posted by K9_75:
When I was in contact with them some years ago the German DEVA said that they had pressure tested loding data for the 9,3x72R which took it over the German limit of 2000 for big game. It was supposed to be in their Reloading Book. I never bought the Drilling that was the reason for my question so I don't know more about it.
//K9

Yes, there are big game loads but not all rifles chambered in 9.3x72 mm R are tough enough.

If you want a softer 9.3x74, take the recipee from the Vihta manual and load the 193 grain/12.5 gram bullet from S&B. This bullet is not .366 as the x74 but rather, .364 inch. Usually it shoots reasonably well.

Attended a driven hunt last winter where I met a guy with a neat old hammer cape gun combo in 16/9,3x72R - just like this one.

I have asked him how does the rifle perform and he said he hasn't used it on game since he got it a week ago...2 hours later - one happy camper - shot a 45kg piglet at 30m using S&B factory ammo - head shot - between eye and ear - bullet exited

Hi all

Thanks for all the reply`s and good info
Yes, I did read about the more powerfull -72R loads, but I guess the old ones, made pre WW2, may not be tough enough for the loads.

Mouse, a great combo gun he had. Reall nice old classic, all the stories she have...mmm.
I am sure, that on short range, like the hunter had here, the -72R will be a great caliber, on boar and roe deer, maybe even deer to. Loaded with a heavy bullet.

Not sure what if it was used on deer back in the old day`s, maybe some know what the caliber was originaly made to hunt?

In the old blackpowder days in Europe much weaker rifles (muzzleloaders and BP cartridge rifles) were used on big game. Hunters did not know anything else, they were normally used to take only careful shots at close distance, and there were good tracking dogs.

The 9.3x72R was created ca. 1880 to 1890 as a BP Express cartridge. This became very popular, and later various nitro loads were introduced, which also were popular and widely used.

A good example are the 3 loads listed in a 1940 RWS catalog:
a) 14.7 g lead bullet, 3.2 g black powder, muzzle velocity 443 m/s.
That's basically the original BP load
b) 12.5 g copperjacket flatpoint bullet, 2.6 g smokeless (R5), muzzle velocity 614 m/s
This is a somewhat enhanced "nitro-for-black" load, maybe the variety used themost, and any ammunition made after WWII will not exceed this level
c) 13.0 g copper jacket spitzer bullet, 2.9 g smokeless (R5), muzzle velocity 685 m/s
Now this was a rather hot load only available before WWII, advertised as "for strong, modern rifles only" or something like that.

There is a big difference between a sound, nitro-proofed gun from the 1930s and an early break-action gun from the 1890!

After WWII the 9.3x72R was declared as obsolete in Germany. No more rifles were made, only ammunition for the remaining old guns.

Fuhrmann

quote:

Originally posted by DUK:

quote:

Originally posted by K9_75:
When I was in contact with them some years ago the German DEVA said that they had pressure tested loding data for the 9,3x72R which took it over the German limit of 2000 for big game. It was supposed to be in their Reloading Book. I never bought the Drilling that was the reason for my question so I don't know more about it.
//K9

Yes, there are big game loads but not all rifles chambered in 9.3x72 mm R are tough enough.

If you want a softer 9.3x74, take the recipee from the Vihta manual and load the 193 grain/12.5 gram bullet from S&B. This bullet is not .366 as the x74 but rather, .364 inch. Usually it shoots reasonably well.

DUK
Maybe I should have been a bit more detailed -According to DEVA all NITRO proved guns were OK for the "modern" loads.

What is your defenition of "shoots reasonably well"? I've never gotten any good accuracy out of the 193gr bullet in 9,3x57/62 and I don't know anybody who's got it from a 9,3x74R either.
//K9

Hi all

Thanks for the good information

Well, yes, there is a BIG difference between a good, sound nitro prof gun and a early break open from 1892, or something.

quote:

Originally posted by K9_75:
What is your defenition of "shoots reasonably well"? I've never gotten any good accuracy out of the 193gr bullet in 9,3x57/62 and I don't know anybody who's got it from a 9,3x74R either.
//K9

About 70 mm at 100 meters. I load N110 powder. It does kill very well, also bigger wild boar and, that is amazing, does not destroy any meat at all. When I hunt in the woods the usual distance is much shorter than that. For longer shots I carry some shells with a 250 grain Nosler BT that shoots slightly higher.

For decades many generations of foresters used the classic 12.5 gram FP to kill any kind of game available between the Rhine River and Königsberg. They kept their distance and shot well. A 12,5 gram bullet to the boiler room sure kills the biggest moose.

Well, thats sounds like a nice boar round!
Just keep the distance short, and I am sure the -72R will, is, a good deer, boar caliber today as well. All the way up to a moose, as you also say it was done in the old days.

Any one know if it got some popularity in Africa or Asia?

The 9.3X72R has similar ballistics to the .35 Remington. So here in North America it would be fine for anything but the great bears. It may be a little light for moose and elk, but good for deer and black bear at close range. The .35 Remington is a long respected woods cartridge.

i think that with these rounds it is even more important to know your own limits.

Well sad DUK

It is a good rounds, also the .35 Rem, but one have to know its limit.

I am sure it will be a great black bear round, a light drilling with slugs and the -72R, thick bush..stalking..just the right gun to have

if you loose your ammo, just go to 'big Bubbas house of ammo' and ask for a box of 9.3x72R...
that round would be one of the last cartridges i would bring for an oversea black bear hunt.

you don't need to load the x74R to maximum, a 250gr at 2300fs should be plenty for your use.
unless your heart is really set on the x72R

Hi
well, the -72R can be used on black bear, but me to will not take it overseas for one hunt. But..I am sure it will be fine, on short range shoting in thick bush.

I know the -72R is a bit odd, to go for one today is maybe not the smartest thing, but why it has to be smart?
The -74R with more soft loadings, will be just as good. But, no -72R.....I am just seeking information, and finding out, if it is a ok caliber for hunting today, and what it was used on in the old days. The -74R is know to "all", but the short one is forgoten, and thats sad.

Well, thats what I think

quote:

Originally posted by vegard_dino:
I am sure it will be a great black bear round, a light drilling with slugs and the -72R, thick bush..stalking..just the right gun to have

Oh yes, in the new DWJ - Deutsches Waffen Journal is an interesting article on the Krieghoff Waldschutz drilling from the 1960s with 50 cm barrels. I guess that this is more or less what you had in mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Steffen:
you don't need to load the x74R to maximum, a 250gr at 2300fs should be plenty for your use.
unless your heart is really set on the x72R

Absolutely. You can turn the x74 into a x72 but not the other way round. Vihtavuhori recommends N140 and the 12.5 Sellier FP bullet, I did it also with N110 and similar powders.

Like I wrote, neither shoot very well. Another try with those Belgium made RN bullets also with 193 grain weight gave similar results of abou 3 MOA. My last shot will be filler.

Hi
Yes, thats the kind of drilling I have in mind. Krieghoff Waldschutz...Wish I was reading German now...

Thanks for the info