Just wondering if anyone here has improved a 270? I know that even PO himself said it wasn't all that beneficial but just wanting a little MORE.

The majority of AI gain is from pressure. The 270 is already loaded to a high pressure. I sure wouldn't do it for a 25-30FPS potential gain. If you want more from the 270 you will need a magnum case of some type or you will need to move the shoulder forward like a Gibbs.

I kind of thought the same way but in looking at the limited information on it I found that on this site one of the loads they have is an improved 270. They actually have a 130 flying close to 3400????

Looked again wasn't this site that said 3400!

Go with the 270 Gibbs.

You can always see high loads for anything. I've done very little work with a 270 but a lot with a 280 taking it from a 280 to AI to 280JRS to my own 280Gibbs+. Unlike the 270 the 280 standard is 60,000 the 270 is 65,000. My work with the 280 and seveal other improves with a stain guage simply verified. At the same pressure you will normally gain 1% velocity for 4% powder. Improving a 270 case will give you about 5.9% case capacity assuming you can use all of that with powder you would get 1.47% velocity increase at 3000FPS that is a gain of 44fps.

I'm sure there is someone out there getting 3400 with a long barrel and high pressure. Those are 270Wby velocities and you will not get them with a AI and normal pressure.

Just my experience. Now for coffee.

I have built a couple and realistic velocities with 24" barrels are in the 3200 fps range with the 130. It is just as good of an "improvement" as any other Ackley cartridge. All barrels are individual and different.
All of the 200-250fps figures claimed for AI cartridges is based off catridges that are loaded in the 46000-48000 cups range from the FACTORY- and any of these cartridges loaded in a modern firearm will safely increase velocities by 100-150fps. The major gain of any AI is longer brass life and less trimming(provided you don't load too hot). The other benifit that could be rather small is a potential increase in accuracy do to the fact the case is now "fatter" for its length and that seems to increase the efficiency of the powder burn; which leads to a more consistant load and therefore increases the accuracy potential. Thirty percent of the rifles I build are AI loadings and 98% of the owners are 100% satisfied. I am down to a 250AI and a 35 Whelen AI at the present time, but am in the process of adding a 244AI and a 280AI back into my rifle inventory.


http://www.duanesguns.com

Interesting for sure. Saeed has use it. I'm sure if he has time, he'd share his thoughts on the subject.

Cheers,
CL

quote:

Originally posted by olinehand:
I found that on this site one of the loads they have is an improved 270. They actually have a 130 flying close to 3400????

I know a fella here that claims his .257 Roberts improved shoots right alongside a .257 Weatherby.

How many bridges do you want to buy?

quote:

Originally posted by 323:
Go with the 270 Gibbs.

Take a good look at the published reloading data forthe .270 Weatherby.....

The way I see it is that it's not a helluva lot more than a standard .270 Winchester....

In a .473 Diameter case, the Gibbs is probably the best of the bunch.....but IMO no one will ever see the difference in the field.

If I was serious about wanting super performance from a .277 diameter bullet, I'd be looking at necking down the 7 MM STW

Duane, what velocity do you get with a normal 270 win. versus an AI?

quote:

Originally posted by DuaneinND:
I have built a couple and realistic velocities with 24" barrels are in the 3200 fps range with the 130. It is just as good of an "improvement" as any other Ackley cartridge. All barrels are individual and different.
All of the 200-250fps figures claimed for AI cartridges is based off catridges that are loaded in the 46000-48000 cups range from the FACTORY- and any of these cartridges loaded in a modern firearm will safely increase velocities by 100-150fps. The major gain of any AI is longer brass life and less trimming(provided you don't load too hot). The other benifit that could be rather small is a potential increase in accuracy do to the fact the case is now "fatter" for its length and that seems to increase the efficiency of the powder burn; which leads to a more consistant load and therefore increases the accuracy potential. Thirty percent of the rifles I build are AI loadings and 98% of the owners are 100% satisfied. I am down to a 250AI and a 35 Whelen AI at the present time, but am in the process of adding a 244AI and a 280AI back into my rifle inventory.


http://www.duanesguns.com

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

Take a good look at the published reloading data forthe .270 Weatherby.....

The way I see it is that it's not a helluva lot more than a standard .270 Winchester....

Did what you suggested:

Nolser data:

130gn pill .270win(26")3158mv....(vs) .270WBY(26")3463mv...(vs) .270WSM(24") 3396mv

150gn pill .270win(24") 2913mv...(vs) .270WBY(26")3207mv...(vs) .270WSM(24) 3187mv

A lazy WSM can cover the Win max. load and a ramped-Up WSM comes close to the WBY
so......I think I'm liking the .270WSM the most...

I remember seeing a video of a large baboon being shot with saeed's 270 ackley improved. perhaps he has some input on this subject.

quote:

Did what you suggested:Nolser data:130gn pill .270win(26")3158mv....(vs) .270WBY(26")3463mv...(vs) .270WSM(24") 3396mv150gn pill .270win(24") 2913mv...(vs) .270WBY(26")3207mv...(vs) .270WSM(24) 3187mvA lazy WSM can cover the Win max. load and a ramped-Up WSM comes close to the WBYso......I think I'm liking the .270WSM the most...

Yep take 2" off the Wby and you are at or below the WSM. QL says you get to burn about 25% more powder to the get that 4% velocity gain. A 1 for 6% increase. Looking at capacity the magnums are in the range of 22-23% net capacity larger. So again a gain of 1% velocity for 5-5.5% capacity gain.

Pretty much what you find in the magnum cases. I spent years and $$ playing with the AIs and my own improved wildcats. In a 06 case loaded to equal pressure your are going to get a 1for 4. The 270 AI is only 4% larger so figure 1% velocity. So using the above data you get 31fps from the AI.

Yep big claims. I believed them. Spent a lot of $$ to try and improve. But once you are comparing 2 rifles the relationship doesn't work. You have now added to many factors. I did most of my testing in the same barrels before and after. Wish I had better news.

AIs allow the shooter to use more pressure and not know it. The huge gains are in cases like the 257R and 7x57 and compared to factory. Which was really a 15,000-20,000 pressure jump.

If someone wants an AI go for it. For real velocity increases you need case volume, pressure and barrel length.

The WSM load data is fast, and high pressure. If you load the 270WBY with pre-SAMMI load data, say Hornady data from the late 80s early 90s and chrono those loads you see the weatherby shine...and the primer pockets loosen and case necks burn. Have you looked at Using Barnes TSX and dropping bullet weight? The 110 grain TTSX will swiss cheese some big deer.

I wouldn't spend all that money on it..Just shoot it like it is, its a fine caliber and any improved 06 case is mostly in the mind of the beholder...You can't improve the std 06 case much in any caliber.

Nothing wrong with the Ackley version but about the only improvement is the imp. brass last longer...The Gibbs calibers are mostly bark and flash, the chronograph will wake one up on the Gibbs and it operates at some awesome pressure. I had several of them for a year or two way back when, until I came to my senses!

quote:

Originally posted by olinehand:
Just wondering if anyone here has improved a 270? I know that even PO himself said it wasn't all that beneficial but just wanting a little MORE.

What was actually printed in Ackley book vol 1.

Since the original 270 is over bore capacity, little improvement can be expected although some shooters say it is a fair cartridge for bullets heavier than 150gr. Due to relative inefficiency, it is not recommended. The standard 270 in unaltered form should be better, therefore no loading data is given

I have built a 270 Ackley on a Remington 700 action, with a Shilen barrel.

I used it quite extensively for hunting plains game in Zimbabwe for many years.

Great rifle, killed hundreds of game animals with it.

Saeed, what velocities where you getting? What bullets were you using? I don't doubt you a bit. I'm a big 270 fan. I found a load for our Rem 700 BDLs in 270 with 22" barrels that easily give 2900 fps with 150g Partitions. My BDL which I gave to my youngest reliably got 3030 fps with Norma MRP (it does with H4831 too) with the 150g Partition and a 22" barrel.

I see this post has a new life. Back when I built the 270AI mentioned I chronographed factory 270-130gr from Fed, WW, and RP they averaged a little over 3000 fps( the boxes said they went 3150), I did not try to load the standard load to the max. The load we shot in the AI averaged 3250fps, we went faster, but then brass life was limited to around 4-5 loadings before the primer pockets stared getting progressively "larger".
Realistic "gain" with any AI case is 3-6% over safe maximum loads with the standard case. The higher the initial working pressure the less possible "gain". I feel the true benefit comes from being able to match the "hot" load in the standard cartridge velocity with the AI and then enjoy a safety margin plus longer brass life. P.O. was "ahead of his time" with his ideas of having a case that reduced pressure on the bolt face due to the minimum taper etc. instead all the "gun" writers focused on velocity, and most still are stuck on that note.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
Saeed, what velocities where you getting? What bullets were you using? I don't doubt you a bit. I'm a big 270 fan. I found a load for our Rem 700 BDLs in 270 with 22" barrels that easily give 2900 fps with 150g Partitions. My BDL which I gave to my youngest reliably got 3030 fps with Norma MRP (it does with H4831 too) with the 150g Partition and a 22" barrel.

Maximum useful velocity was 3200 fps.
Loads I used for hunting where slightly less, using both Barnes X 130 grains and Trophy Bonded Bear Claws 140 grains.

I did not notice any difference in performance on animals between these two bullets.

Thank you

This is what PO Ackley said about his 270 AI...

"Since the 270 is over bore capacity, little improvement can be expected, although some shooters say it is a fair cartridge for bullets heavier than 150 grs.

Due to its (270 AI) relative inefficiency, it is not recommended. The standard 270 in unaltered form should be better..."

PO Ackley said essentially the same thing about the 25-06 AI - not recommended.

I DO have a standard .270 Rem that gets used quite a bit. But I also have a couple of AI calibers in the safe, and the one that gets the most use is my 25-06 AI.

I know it isn't a .270 but similar in that what has been mentioned about the loads and pressures are correct.

My motive however was to use the heavy weight 120 and some custom 125, and 130gr bonded bullets, and be able to drive them faster than I could from my standard 25-06. Yea I know why not just use the .270 I already had, well because it wasn't a 25-06.

I built it using a 28" Broughton barrel expressly to take advantage of the slower powders under the heavier bullets. As such I am at least able to hit the mid 3200's with ease using the 120's and just clip the edge of 3200 with the 130's. In my standard version, with the 120's, I could get close to but not break 3000fps from it's 24" barrel. With the 130's I could get on average around 2930fps before I would flatten out primers.

I did my work up similar to what was mentioned above using the factory loads as a reference, measuring the base of the cases for expansion and then working up my loads using that data. As soon as I saw .0005" greater expansion I called that load max and backed off. Using Ramshot Magnum as my main powder the 120 load where this occurred was in the low 3400fps range, which I knew was too much, but still wanted to find that number for my own reference. The 3250fos loads will shoot well and have put quite a few 3/4-1" loads together at 300yds.

So I DID accomplish my goal of getting the 120 thru 130 bullets stoked up, but as much of it comes from the added barrel length as anything. Plus I am burning more powder to get there.

All this said though it is VERY nice to not have to trim the cases after every third shot like I was having to do with the standard caliber. Brass life is good and I am up to close to a dozen loads in my initial cases now having only lost a couple in the pasture while hunting hogs. Primer pockets are still nice and tight.

My other reasoning for this particular caliber was that I already had a ton of 06 brass as well as around 6-700 25-06 cases. It might have been a faster rig to go the Weatherby route, but it would have sot me a bunch more in cases and dies to get there.

I'm really considering something along the line of the Gibbs or Sherman in a 6.5 version. I think with a 24-26" barrel it should be a fine flat shooting rifle. Yea I know I already have the .270, but why not play while you can. Your only here for a short time, might as well enjoy the ride.

To the OP, I have to wonder: have you actually chronographed your loads, and if so, what are you getting?

I have a standard 22" BDL, and with my handloads of 60 grains of the now discontinued AA 3100, I consistently get 3150 out of a Speer 130-grain GS. Bolt lift is normal, and although primers are flat, they are not bradded. But I should add that the rifle is "throated long", and with the projectile pushed up to .010" off the lands, there is almost 3/16ths of an inch of projectile behind the cannelure exposed.

In reading what PO Ackley originally wrote, and after looking at Saeed's post above, I would think there is just not much to recommend blowing out the .270 case. I have to believe the extra powder burned would just result in an increase in component expense, with no real value.

But if you want one, go for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
This is what PO Ackley said about his 270 AI...

"Since the 270 is over bore capacity, little improvement can be expected, although some shooters say it is a fair cartridge for bullets heavier than 150 grs.

Due to its (270 AI) relative inefficiency, it is not recommended. The standard 270 in unaltered form should be better..."

PO Ackley said essentially the same thing about the 25-06 AI - not recommended.

I only said what was in Ackley book and Ackley was never shy about publishing load data. He did 30-06AI and published loading data.

Ackley book their is loading data for the 25-06AI and their warning about being over bore but that's under Bob Hutton loads. What was said original loads "it is still not recommended as being the over all satisfactory cartridge that the improved 257 is".

After Ackley did 257AI he did 270x257 Improved and their is loading data for that.

Its standard advise to claim the IMP options are less than satisfactory, but the bottom line is they do improve velocity.

The 257 Robts, 250 Savage, 7x57 show about 300 FPS advantage, the others show about 100 to 200 FPS..and the bottom line is they are seldom cost effective, but they are still excellent calibers that perform well on game and shoot very flat, and entertain folks. Some folks like to squeeze every drop of velocity out a cartridge,so they like Imp. rounds and that's a good thing if it fills them with Joy.

I, personally don't feel the need for them but like I said they are excellent killers and shoot mighty flat when you get that last drop out of them..and besides when did shooters and hunters get cost effective.

I wouldn't recommend starting with a factory chamber, the "improving" it, but if starting from scratch with an AI reamer sounds alright with me.
That's whaty I did, and I'm a "happy camper." My FN m98 has a 24" barrel and gives me almost 3300fps with 130gr bullets, and almost 3200fps with 150gr bullets. I built the rifle to see what I could safely get with the new slow-burning powders. It take those powders to get the extra velocities without jacking the pressures up and away.
If that range of power is not worth it to you, I understand and support you, but you're prolly not building a custom rifle, anyway.
I'm happy with mine, but can see why you may not want to do it.
Have fun,
Gene

quote:

...My FN m98 has a 24" barrel and gives me almost 3300fps with 130gr bullets, and almost 3200fps with 150gr bullets. I built the rifle to see what I could safely get...without jacking the pressures up and away...

So what are these safe pressures you are getting with the .270 AI? Are you obtaining equivalent velocities of a .270 Weatherby (with significantly less case volume and powder) without exceeding Weatherby factory pressures (which are 65,000-71,000 psi)?



.

quote:

So what are these safe pressures you are getting with the .270 AI? Are you obtaining equivalent velocities of a .270 Weatherby (with significantly less case volume and powder) without exceeding Weatherby factory pressures (which are 65,000-71,000 psi)?

Rocky Gibbs was known for PUSHING the heck out of his wildcats and he can't get there moving the shoulder forward. Even measuring his barrels from the front of the bullet to cook his books.


Not saying those are your readings. Just seriously question those velocities at normal 270 pressure.

Buy a .280 and "improve" that.

Almost...is 3250-3260fps with 130gr, and 3140-3150 with 150gr.
Rockey Gibbs didn't get there, I understand, but he didn't have some of the powders I do. The only one that HAS given me the velocities I quoted is MagPro. There are some of the new Alliant powders that I haven't tried, yet, and I look forward to them.
I believe my pressures are max, but IN MY GUN, I believe them to be safe, prolly 60-62k.
I'm with you on "normal .270 pressures." The factories have to load for lots of different rifles, some looser, some with longer, or shorter throats. I am loading for only ONE rifle. FWIW-I don't use that load on a usual basis. I can get superior accuracy at acceptable velocities with slightly faster-burning powders.
I stand by my recommendation that one doesn't rechamber a .270, but when starting out fresh that the "improved" is a viable option.
If you feel that the "improvement" is not enough for you to invest the time and money, I support YOU.
I own several "improved" rifles, but several standard, also....ie .257 Bob (both kinds) and 7x57 (with 20" barrel) which would be a waste of powder, but not the reason I chose it.
Have fun,
Gene

Couple things the Gibbs data is from a 26" barrel and if he measure the way he normally did that would be a 28" barrel. Also the max for the 150 was 3050 not 3150.

Don't know what your load is but thought I would share something. Had to use a howell case which should be larger than your 270 AI case since it blown out the same and shoulder if moved forward.

Cartridge          : .270 Howell
Bullet             : .277, 150, Hornady Interbond 27409
Useable Case Capaci: 65.289 grain H2O = 4.239 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder             : Accurate MAGPRO

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   85    54.40   2504    2089   34441  11070     88.0    1.530
-18.0   87    55.76   2574    2206   37057  11452     89.5    1.486
-16.0   89    57.12   2643    2327   39887  11821     91.0    1.434
-14.0   91    58.48   2713    2452   42949  12174     92.3    1.385
-12.0   94    59.84   2783    2580   46274  12511     93.6    1.337
-10.0   96    61.20   2854    2713   49869  12828     94.7    1.291
-08.0   98    62.56   2925    2849   53726  13125     95.8    1.247
-06.0  100    63.92   2995    2988   57893  13398     96.7    1.205  ! Near Maximum !
-04.0  102    65.28   3066    3132   62406  13647     97.6    1.164  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  104    66.64   3137    3278   67300  13868     98.3    1.125  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0  106    68.00   3208    3428   72616  14061     98.9    1.087  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  108    69.36   3279    3581   78398  14223     99.3    1.050  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  111    70.72   3350    3737   84702  14352     99.7    1.015  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  113    72.08   3420    3896   91588  14446     99.9    0.981  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  115    73.44   3490    4058   99129  14505    100.0    0.948  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  117    74.80   3560    4222  107409  14536    100.0    0.916  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    106    68.00   3363    3767   88728  13597    100.0    1.000  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    106    68.00   2991    2980   57186  13724     92.9    1.202  ! Near Maximum !    

You might not be seeing it but I'll bet you a that you are in the 70,000+psi range.


As an afterthought I took the 270Wby used a 26" which they normally are and magpro loaded to 64,000 and ended up with this.

  Cartridge          : .270 Weath. Mag.
Bullet             : .277, 150, Hornady Interbond 27409
Useable Case Capaci: 72.802 grain H2O = 4.727 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.295 inch = 83.69 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder             : Accurate MAGPRO

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   79    56.40   2533    2136   32027  10557     89.0    1.668
-18.0   81    57.81   2599    2250   34338  10910     90.5    1.623
-16.0   83    59.22   2666    2368   36827  11252     91.8    1.580
-14.0   85    60.63   2734    2489   39497  11580     93.1    1.527
-12.0   87    62.04   2801    2613   42330  11893     94.2    1.478
-10.0   89    63.45   2868    2740   45350  12189     95.3    1.431
-08.0   91    64.86   2936    2871   48587  12467     96.2    1.385
-06.0   93    66.27   3003    3004   52056  12725     97.1    1.341
-04.0   95    67.68   3070    3140   55777  12962     97.8    1.299  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   97    69.09   3137    3278   59771  13175     98.5    1.258  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   99    70.50   3204    3419   64061  13364     99.0    1.219  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  101    71.91   3271    3563   68674  13528     99.4    1.181  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  103    73.32   3337    3709   73639  13664     99.7    1.145  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  105    74.73   3403    3857   78990  13773     99.9    1.109  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  107    76.14   3468    4006   84765  13851    100.0    1.075  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  109    77.55   3533    4158   91008  13910    100.0    1.042  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     99    70.50   3356    3752   77714  12933    100.0    1.122  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     99    70.50   2992    2981   50824  13058     93.3    1.347  

With 2" more barrel loading a larger case to 64,000 I could reach 3200.

Paul- Hmmm
I COULD very easily be in error.
Gene

I'm not sure exactly what happened, but I went to QuickLoad and ran my figures to see where I made my mistake.
With my figures...QL predicted 3204fps with 68gr of MagPro and a Sierra 130gr spbt. When I shot over my chronograph (Oehler M33 with 5' spread, first screen at 5' for a 7.5' average) with a Speer 130gr spbt and 68.5gr of MagPro I got 3189fps (33fps extreme spread) @60 degrees and my elevation,FWIW, is 5100'.
QL predicted 62.1k.
I figured with my components, that the prediction was pretty close. I don't recommend that anyone else shoot this load, but after having started much lower and adding a little at a time, and staying within QL guidelines, that I was reasonably safe. There were no signs of excessive pressures, tho' many handloaders HAVE brought up the information that an "improved" design doesn't show high pressures until the very end.
I have no hesitation on using this load, tho' as I've said, it's NOT my load of choice.
I also don't think that leaving a box of shells on the dashboard for 1/2 a day is a good idea.
FWIW- I carry my shells in a belt-pouch, with the load(4 cartridges usually) in a pocket-total 24 rounds.
I say, "Do as I say, not as I do." And I always say "Be safe first."
Make your own choise....
Have fun,
Gene

I agree with you on a 130. Unless I missed something (happens all the time) it was the 3200 with a 150. That is the numbers I posted.

If you had posted and maybe I missed it 3200 with magpro and a 130 I would have said sounds great.

I went back through my notes and can now PROVE you correct in regards to the 150gr bullets.
My notes show that I DID reach "almost 3200fps" but with SuPerformance, not MagPro, with which 3200fps is NOT safely possible.
I also have NO proof that SuPerformance will do it safely, though I did get it on my equipment without raising doubts as to safety. I have also NOT shot those loads enough to figure case-life so as to use THAT as a pressure sign.
It seems about the right time for me to unzip so I can see the light, lol.
Have fun,
Gene

quote:

"improved" design doesn't show high pressures until the very end."

I've reloaded many Ackley improved cartridges - as well as the 338 Gibbs - and in my experience they show PSI signs at the same point as the non-improved cartridge.

Brass is brass and it will show signs of "flow" at the same PSIs - whether its shaped in the standard design or the improved design.

The improved designs simply give you more case capacity and more performance ~proportional the the amount of increased case capacity.

Humm, I improved my 270 by putting a 27.5 inch barrel on it. 130gr Accubonds do 3325fps, chronographed, with a bit less than 3/4 grain under max H4350. Accuracy is extremely good. A little extra barrel seems to put the "over-bore" observation into perspective. I have a friend with a 270 Weatherbeaten that his dad bought him ages ago and it does the same velocity with a 26" barrel. The Weatherby is a bit lighter but otherwise the only difference is his ammo costs are much higher than mine...