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There is an article in my last issue of "American Rifleman" about value priced bolt guns. Of note was a comment by the author, John Barsness about how he checks to see if the barrel on rubber gunstocks are free floating or not. He squeezes the for-end of the stock and if makes contact with the barrel, in his opinion, it is not free floating. He solved his problem with a round rasp. I tried this on my two year old Remington 700 SPS Tactical and it made contact with even a light squeeze. I couldn't even get a piece of paper between them easily. Before I get out my rasps and files to do mods that were ir-reversable I thought I get opinions here on if this is needed or the free floating barrel thing is just for serious bench shooters. Rasping down the front is pretty cheap if it helps. I want my rifles to be as accurate as possible but don't have a place to shoot long distances (over 200 yards). I do enjoy bench shooting to compete with myself and my reloads. I recently put a Timney trigger on this rifle. I don't compete with others. | ||
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Unless the action is well bedded either at the factory or otherwise, most synthetic (rubber/plastic) stocks seem to flex too much. A poorly supported action does not lend too well to any barrel channel work as everything tends to move anyway. None of my rifles sport a synthetic stock ( except ARs) as I can bed and float/contact/seal wood so much easier than cheap synthetics. On the other hand, topflite fiberglass reinforced synthetics are very rigid and accept proper bedding/floating bonding very well. | |||
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I just acquired the rifle you referenced . Trigger is adjusted well. I'll mount a scope, use Black Hills match or Fed match and see how it shoots. If it shoots well, I'll leave it alone.Then work up some deer/hog loads. If not, then I'll tune it. If it is not causing any problems, just shoot it ! | |||
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I believe that "free floating" is the one BEST thing we can do to improve accuracy without any expense or cost. I do it to all my rifles. Even rifles with synthetic stocks. Bedding the front recoil lug helps a lot, but the free float is most important. IMO. Jerry NRA Benefactor Life Member | |||
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Ifree float all my rem.700 plastic stocks,have not regretted one yet | |||
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I would shoot it first. Having test fired 10 remington 700 PSS fresh out of the box with fed national match and having the worst one be 2/3 inch...I would definitely test fire it first. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I find the pressure point works very well. The point is, you should have pressure all the time or none of the time. I'm talking about wooden stocks, that's all I have. If the plastic forearm flexes enough that you cam move it into and out of contact with the barrel, I'd think that any up pressure would just keep bending the forearm. I read about guys routing out a groove in the barrel channel and epoxying a rod into it to prevent the forearm from flexing. Otherwise every time you changed shooting positions, you'd have different amounts of contact between the barrel and the forearm. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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If it ain't broke, don't fix it, meaning shoot it first and see how it performs. From everything I have seen John Barsness write, he is pretty sharp. I would bet he was referring to rifles that may have had some accuracy issues. I have two Savage Axis rifles (the ones with a true flimsy plastic stock that touches the barrel when you squeeze on it) that I wouldn't part with for nothing (figure of speech). One chambered in 308 W. and the other a .223 R. I don't think one could rasp out enough of the forearm to keep it from touching the barrel when you go to squeezing or twisting on it. Yet both rifles shoot sub-MOA straight out of the box everyday of the week. I like to carry these rifles on those wet, nasty days or if I am going to be hiking a ways. They are both light as a feather. The only thing I had to fix on either one of them was the trigger. "The right to bear arms" insures your right to freedom, free speech, religion, your choice of doctors, etc. ....etc. ....etc.... -----------------------------------one trillion seconds = 31,709 years------------------- | |||
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Interesting. One expert (a drip, under pressure) says one thing, another one says something else...so what's new? The basic thing most shooters are after is consistency. That may not give the very acme of accuracy, but at least the accuracy will be consistent, as will the POI. Obviously, no contact at all is pretty consistent. Not quite so obvious is that pressure points, if at the right place, will reduce barrel vibration amplitude, increase vibration frequency ,and sometimes give better accuracy. But if the pressure point is in the wrong place, it can adversely affect accuracy. And because virtually ALL kinds of stocks react to variations in temperature, sling pressures, and a zillion other things, consistency just isn't a normal long term product of "pressure" bedding. That's why 1940s/1950s benchrest competitors got into glass bedding, and products like Acraglas and MicroBed came on the market and thrived. They helped make stock pressure more consistent at the pressure points. But composite bedding isn't a cure-all for eliminating ALL pressure variations all the time. Hence the move to "free floating" barrels. Most shooters finally realized that .1 or even 1/4 MOA improvement in accuracy by using pressure bedding is of no use at all for most folks if it's 0.1 better today and maybe 1 MOA worse the next time the rifle is used. That's why most of my competition rifles have a barrel/stock gap I could throw a cat through..... Most of my hunting rifles have pressure bedding because a 1/4-1/2 MOA one way or the other doesn't mean squat in the hunting field, and I like the old traditional classic appearance of close stock fit. Makes me feel better about toting hem around out there. You guys all have decide for yourself what you prefer. There is no ONE correct answer for all. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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What he said..... Free floating is only a small part of the equation. How the action is bedded often makes a bigger difference. Some guns like a pressure point up front. I love the feel of the Houge stocks, but they are the softest I've ever dealt with. A simple test, next time you're at the range, shoot a group with the rifle supported as you normally would. Then place your rest or bags so that they are under the recoil lug and rearward. Nothing touching the stock in front of the recoil lug or forward of it. Then shoot another group. Another test is to shim the recoil lug up a bit, but that requires a bit more effort. Free floated or not, I've never seen a rifle that shot worse after a bedding job and by far most have been better, many exponentially so. | |||
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I free float all my rifles wooden or plastic stocked, enough so I can draw an oiled cloth in the barrel channel up to the chamber area of the barrel. Handy to allow the underside of the barrel to dry and to keep oiled to prevent rust in wet weather apart from giving consistent accuracy. Alberta obviously just oils up the cat and drags it up the barrel channel to do the same job  | |||
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I don't have any rifles with the flimsy plastic stocks. But I have many with McMillan and HS precision and some wood ones. All barrels were free floated before they were fired. In my view that leads to the most consistent pressure on the barrel (none), and results in the best possible accuracy. NRA Patron member | |||
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marshmandan, I see a picture with an internet search for a recoil lug. I see places to buy one. There is even one/some for my Remington 700. I can't figure out where it goes. Never heard of one before, but then I'll admit I'm no expert. What is it and where does it go? | |||
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Your rifle already has one on it. It is fitted at the junction of the barrel and receiver. If you take the stock off you'll see it as a tab that sticks down in front of the magazine box. There is a slot cut(molded) into the stock for it. No one is born knowing all this stuff, we all have to start some place, and if we're lucky, we get some really good teachers along the way. I've been lucky, and I have no life, so I've always been on the search for more effective ways to kill things to put in my tummy. I'm in central NC, and I'll help you if I can, but my first recommendation is to find yourself a good buy on some 168gr loads in a variety of brands, or work up a variety of loads and see what the gun is capable of as it sits before you start playing with the bedding. Get a performance standard established first, then you have a way to track improvements. Ask yourself, what are your intended uses for this particular rifle? How much accuracy does that use require, and how much time and money are you willing to spend to get to that point? You may find you are better off to just ditch the stock and start fresh. I like to tinker with things and with some things, have no concerns with taking a chance on screwing it up. In this case if you screw the stock up at worst you can buy a used "take off" stock from someone that has upgraded. I've seen them go for fifty bucks or less. Or get a Bell & Carlson or HS Precision and you've got a much better starting point. | |||
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I would certainly recommend modifying the forend so that you have more clearance and also you want to reinforce the stock. The latter is accomplished by taking a Dremel and removing a strip of wood about a 1/2" in width down the length of the stock forend. Go quite deep then pour Acraglas into the strip. It will nicely reinforce the stock. | |||
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Interesting idea. But if you are going to do that why not just do a full bedding job instead? Maybe that is the way to go with an otherwise flimsy Tupperware situation. AK-47 The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like. | |||
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I don't really know which is better and I have seen and shot a lot of rifles over the years. I have been building rifles since 1952 and have never free floated one. In recent years I have had all my rifles glass bedded from tang thru forearm tip. They all shoot very tight groups whether glass bedded or just inletted. I had a friend who built competition rifles and when Devcon plastic steel came out in the early 60's he began to use it and thought it was the best thing that had ever come out for accuracy improvement. Done what I consider properly you have absolutely NO pressure on the barrel anywhere till it heats up. Just one old mans opinion. Don't know about plastic stocks,don't like them,don't own them except for my AR15 and FAL and those are hardly called 'stocks'. Bought my Great Grandson a Savage Hog Hunter and my Granddaughters husband a Savage 308 with a Choate Sniper stock. Both of them shoot exceptionally well. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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Shoot first. Don't fix it if it ain't broke... None of my deer or bigger calibre rifles has a plastic or rubber stock, they are all wood, from exhibition English to really plain American walnut. Some are full length bedded and some are only inletted. The full length bedded rifles are more accurate and consistent on average, and all are English walnut, which is, imo, more stable than American walnut. But none of them is inaccurate and one simply inletted American walnut stocked rifle is (almost) as accurate as the best of the full length bedded rifles. Moral of the story - try it before messing with it and determine if it meets your requirements. JPK  Free 500grains | |||
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The typical Tupperware stock isn't worth messing with. Just shoot it and if its good good enough, leave it alone. Floating, bedding and stiffening isn't worth the effort, if you think you need an improvement toss it and start with a real stock. An SPS stock is so flimsy that they use the barrel to straighten the stock out. In a general way barrels with a bit of meat to them do well floated. That's not to say they will always shoot better, but they do tend to hold zero better. Holding zero is about 100 times more important on a hunting rifle than accuracy is. The lightest barrels may do well floated, but many respond well to forend pressure. I've floated tons of rifles, but have had to put the pressure back in a few. | |||
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There are all kinds of ways to bed rifles which all work very well. For instance I once owned a Winchester Model 52 Bull Gun which had been the personal rile of a person who won many United Kingdom small bore championships with it. He had bedded it himself, by cutting grooves similar to those AR Corey described above...one groove on each side of the barrel at about a 30° angle to it. He filled each groove with foam rubber, which bore against the barrel. It still shot magnificently for the 10 years I had it before I sold it to another small bore competitor. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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QUOTE] I would certainly recommend modifying the forend so that you have more clearance and also you want to reinforce the stock. The latter is accomplished by taking a Dremel and removing a strip of wood about a 1/2" in width down the length of the stock forend. Go quite deep then pour Acraglas into the strip. It will nicely reinforce the stock.[/QUOTE] Might be hard to find wood to remove on an SPS. | |||
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This is true, at least so long as the rifle shoots decently for it's intended use, relatively long or relatively short range... JPK Free 500grains | |||
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Might be hard to find wood to remove on an SPS.[/QUOTE] I'm thinking about it, the Acraglas that is, if I can find another stock in case I mess mine up. I tinker a lot as long as it isn't to expensive to fix. I found Acraglas on Brownells but lack directions. Not sure if it would work on a rubber SPS stock. Thought I'd look on you tube later when I'm at my newer computer. | |||
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There are reams and reams of info on glass bedding in the 'puter. If you're burrowing a channel down the center of your stock inlet, it wouldn't hurt epoxy a steel rod down the center of your groove. Also, you don't have to do the bedding all at once but can do it in sections. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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When I free float a barrel I use 2 layers of .015" pattern wax coverd with packing tape applied to the barrel starting 3" in front of the receiver ring. If you don't use packing tape, the heat of the epoxy curing slightly melts the wax causing it to somewhat adhere to the bedding making it difficult to remove the barrel. I use a single .015" layer between the front & rear receiver rings & on the rear of the tang. After glas bedding as usual you end up with a consistant .030" clearance between the fore end & barrel as well as an action that floats between the front & rear action screws. I do the action 1st & then the barrel. When it GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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"Floating" tends to work best for heavier contoured barrels. For light sporter weights, not so much. If you polled a thousand experienced rifle shooters asking which factory wood-stocked hunting rifles tend to have the best straight-from-the-box accuracy, you would probably find the Remington 700 and Sako at the top of the list. Both use bedding with a forward pressure point. The post-64 Winchester 70, with its barrel floated like it is suspended in a rain gutter, would probably be near the bottom of the list. | |||
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Are you speaking of barrels full floated from the reiver or barrels that have the 1st 3" bedded with the action? I have had excellent results with the later, even on light contour barrels. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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Each rifle reaches its full accuracy potential according to its barrel viberations, smoothness of the rifleings and a few other thingies. when I inlet a rifle I bed it tight from one end to the other, then shoot it. If it shoots great then its finished but if not I will 3 point bed it with pressure on the forend about an inch behind the tip; again I will shoot it, if not satisfied then I free float it from about two inches in front of the front ring to the end of the forend..If it still refuses to shoot I'll stick a new barrel on it, but this doesn't often happen...One thing I personally don't like is a finicky rifle. A good rifle properly bedded in any of the above methods should shoot good IMO, having to create a specific load just doesn't work for me. No argument here as there may be room for discussion, but that's the way I feel about it. The magic word "free float" is somewhat abused and it may or may not be the best way to inlet a rifle. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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