I’ve been trying to find a better way for cleaning the bore of my Sauer 9.3x62 mm from cooper fouling.

Here in Portugal I’ve difficulty in finding cooper solvents and I’ve used Kleen Bore Cooper Cutter and Nº 10 Solvent for my cleaning. Nº 10 for the powder fouling and Cooper Cutter for the Cooper fouling, together with VFG felts and bronze brushes, but IT TAKES FOREVER to get a clean, no green or blue, patch (VFG felt).

On a recent trip to France I bought at Kettners some VFG bore cleaning compound, I think it should be similar to JB paste, but I’m not sure about the correct way to use it.
How do you get it out of the bore, after cleaning ? Will it harm the rifle if some of it gets in the chamber ? I’ve not been able to find a bore guide for the 9.3x62 mm .

I’ve also read a lot of good reviews on this forum about Wipeout – bore cleaning foam, which I think should be similar to Milfoam – Forrest bore cleaning foam – that it is possible to obtain by mail order.

How should Wipeout de used – from the chamber or from the muzzle ?

I understand that this products will attack aluminum and my Sauer has a light alloy receiver – will this product harm the receiver ?

What about plastic ( Makrolon ) ? I’ve a Steyer rifle that has the magazine well made of this material.

I would really appreciate your comments and experiences with this products .

Cheers,

Nsiro

Do not use anything but nylon brushes when using copper solvents. Brass/bronze brushes contain some copper, so some of this is leaving traces which will be picked up by the patch; never will get a "blueless" patch.

I get rid of the JB with a couple patches wet with regular solvent, then dry and oil.

Wipe-Out is applied through the muzzle. Be careful as some of it might drip out through the receiver; this can damage the finish.

Here are a couple of links that might be helpful.

http://www.building-tux.com/dsmjd/tech/copper_fouling.htm

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/Store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1404&title=SWEET'S+7.62+BORE+CLEANER

http://www.accuratereloading.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=753209&page=&fpart=1&vc=1

I have used Sweet's 7.62 bore cleaner before and it does get out the copper. Use strictly according to directions - it will dissolve bronze brushes.

I think that Wipe-Out foam is far the easiest way to clean a bore yet. I've also used the Break-Free foam but don't think that it's quite as good as the Wipeout.
I use a snug fitting bore guide and squirt the foam in from the rear, not from the muzzle. The bore guide keeps it from getting into the receiver. The only thing that I've had any problems with it damaging is the black exterior finish on my Steyr Scout. It seems to soften it a bit.
With a dirty bore I'll squirt in the foam and then go do something else for about 15 minutes. I run 4 to 5 dry patches through and then squirt in another pass of the foam and wait two hours. After 2 hours I run 4 to 5 more patches through and the bore is usually clean. I like to then run a brush with a patch wrapped around it and then covered with JB's Bore Brite. 10-15 strokes and then remove the JB patch and wrap a dry patch for 4 to 5 strokes. Wrap a oiled patch for a couple strokes, and then remove the bore guide. A final dry patch will catch any leftover bore foam and/or oil. This method usually leaves the bore of anything but a totally coppered up bore absolutely mirror-bright and clean. Total cleaning time is a couple hours but the working time is only 10-15 minutes. It used to take me far longer to de-
copper a bore. The two biggest steps are to use the bore-foam from the rear using a bore guide to seal the receiver and to use a patch wrapped brush with JB's. I've tried about every copper-out solution available and this method is the best/fastest I've found........DJ

I have not yet run into any problems with Wipe-out and finish, but then again, I'm pretty careful.

Step one is to plug the chamber. A tigh boremop will do in an emergency. With smaller calibers, I use disposable earplugs.

Step two, squirt into the barrel. This is a "learn as you go" bit, as it takes much less than a second in a 22 cal rifle. With big bores, a little more than a second. If you squirt too long, foam will be coming out, and be all over everything, so be ready with a rag to catch it.

Leave overnight. Patch out, following with whichever bore preservative you prefer, and put up. It really is that simple.

The only caveat is that Wipe-out really isn't all that good on thick hardened carbon fouling. It softens it pretty good, so if I have a rifle with carbon build up (like a magnum which has been fired with slow burning powders), I follow the Wipe-out with a couple of strokes of a brush, and a mild carbon solvent (Butch's, Hoppes, etc). HTH, Dutch.

It's a Soaker
Use your seaarch engine and key up on
Ed's Red
This is a possible option.

I had a bore that was badly fowled after shooting older Barnes X a while back. I had tried (forever) to get it clean with Sweets, but after the umpteenths cleaning, I put it back into the safe, muttering through gritted teeth.

Well,, this weekend, I decided to have another go at it. I first took a good look at the bore with my borescope, and not surprisingly, there was copper hiding in the grooves - in particular from the muzzle (much) and towards the breech (less). I gave it a couple of hours with Wipeout (not very long), and the patch came out blue. Hmmm, that only confirmed what the borescope told me.

Time for the heavy "artillery"... Out came a jug of J&B, and two patches (shortstroked through the bore ) later, the bore was as clean as anything I have yet to borescope. I was thrilled! So was it the Wipeout or the J&B that was the magic ingredient?? I don't strictly know, but I suspect the J&B. No, I don't use it all the time nor for all barrels, but for a heavily fowled barrel, it sure works like magic.

J&B can be had on the Internet (no export or shipping restrictions - in contrast to Wipeout, because of the aerosol can) from several sources such as Sinclair's or Brownells'. Order a jug via the Web, you'll have within 10 days, and have at it. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

- mike

P.S. Order a good bore guide as well (e.g. Sinclair) if you don't have one already, plus some good jags and what-not

I agree with some of the above posts. Wipe-Out brushless bore cleaner is the way to go. The stuff is like a miracle!

To me, Wipe Out has been an abysmal failure. It will eventually work, but only after REPEATED 24hour soakings. I just use it now sparingly and finish the job with Sweets. Another word of caution: IT will RUIN any wood finish. jorge

Follow Madison's suggestion and get the forula for Ed's Red. Over here the formula will make one gallon of bore cleaner. My suggestion is get a one gallon metal paint bucket, pour the four components into the paint bucket. Pour into a smaller container say a pint of your mix, with enough room to pour 3 to 4 ounces of 14% ammonia. The 14% ammonia should be easy to get from a pharmicist/chemist, you now have a good copper removing bore solvent. Don't leave in the bore to very long.
Take another pint of the remaining mix and add some lanolin and you have a good gun cleaner, with anti rust properties. Plus it will make your hands soft.
Jim

I use Wipe-out and it works the first time,..every time! I leave it for 24hrs and run a patch, then follow with hoppes to remove any powder reidue hiding in there,..then kroil. If wipe-out doesn't get it the first 24hr soaking,.. I would suspect a bad barrel or you waited wayyyyy toooo long between cleainings. I went almost all 50rnds at a match last year, and the first patch after 24hrs of wipe-out was the only patch with blue on it,..I even followed it with sweets just to see if what I thought I saw was really happening. Sure enough,..no traces of copper on the sweets patch, even after 10 minutes in the bore. I am sold on the wipe-out product,..it also makes a great furniture stripper,..the finish comes off INSTANTLY

here is the easy trick I have found with Wipe-out,...take a Macdonalds straw (just the right size) and fit it over the nozzle on the can,..now slide the straw into the chamber and you will feel it stop against the throat/leade/rifling depending on caliber. Give it the few quick squirts and wait for it to expand out the muzzle. Now, for maybe 5 minutes, leave the straw in the chamber and none of the foam will expand back into the action or bedding surface area. Been doing this for an entire can now,..and it flat out works for me. the bore guide goes in for the jag and patch sessions.

Well here goes. Butches bore shine, followed by (can I have a drum roll) Break free. Till all the patches don't show anymore black. I found out about the Break free by accident durning a barrel break-in session.(I left the Kroll oil at the house)I was not going to drive the 65 miles round trip when I had the Brakefree with me and said what the hell. I haven't used Kroll oil since! (anybody want whats left in my gal can?) By the way folks the barrel was broke in in half the normal time it takes me with one of Dan Lilja's wonderful Barrels. On average I break in three to four new barrels a year, and clean a great deal more of less than the Great Makers barrels. And after 45 years of this chore, let me tell you, "you can teach and old dog new tricks". I do like to show off to the guys that come by the shop how neat this stuff works (who would of ever thunk?) Oh almost forgot to tell you, I get the oil out of the bore with 91% rubbing ALcohol. I hope you have as much fun as I do using this stuff!

Hoppe´s #9, then Break Free for storage. Butch´s for "once a year get out all" cleaning, then Break Free for storage. Break Free is a superior rust preventative, even in a thin film. Also quite good in cleaning. But then its called "CLP"

But for top lubrication, I recommend FP 10 ( Pistol, Revolver, SA rifles, triggers ).

Hunter's Extreme CopperMelt is the best solvent I've found....WipeOut bore foam is the easiest bore cleaner. So if I'm in a hurry I use the CopperMelt and if I'm not, then I use WipeOut. Both are great. Montana Extreme is the runnerup solvent. But I only clean 5 or 6 rifles a week, so what do I know? Don't know about international availability....

Anybody using Outer's Foul-Out system for heavy copper removal?
Sako

Try Wipeout. Works like magic.

Hola Nsiro

Here in Spain you can find Forrest , it works great to "softens" the copper , and then a pass with a tight jig with a cotton patch with JB paste really cleans the bore , another good product available in Spain it's Tetra copper removal , if you need where to buy it send an email.

Daniel

Thank you all for your answers. I’ve red your suggestions and would like to try some of them, but as I said in the original post, here in Portugal the bore cleaners and cooper solvents that you refer are not readily available.

I found the idea of using Ed’s Red a good one and made a search for the formula, and this is what i found :

Old ( Original) Ed’s Red Formula :

acetone,
turpentine,
Pratts Astral Oil (Pratts Astral oil was nothing more than acid free, deodorised kerosene).
sperm oil,
and optionally 200 grams of lanolin added per liter.


New (actual ) Revised Formula:

1 part Dexron II, IIe or III ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later.
1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K1
1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits, Fed. Spec. TT-T-2981F, CAS
#64741-49-9, or substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, or equivalent, (aka "Varsol")
1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.

From this formula I can find only three of the ingredients, I can not find the Aliphatic Mineral Spirits, Fed. Spec. TT-T-2981F, CAS #64741-49-9, or substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, or equivalent, (aka "Varsol") , does anyone knows of a more readily available product that can be used to substitute this one ?
Thank you ,

Nsiro

Some hardware stores carry "janitorial strength" ammonia, which is 10% ammonia. 2 parts of this, mixed with 1 part the thickest liquid detergent you can get will get you a close approximation of Sweets, for $2 per liter.

The electroplating solution plates away steel, too.

I have a Yugo M48 that I think was not properly cleaned in 30-40 years. It copper fouled terribly. My solution was "Witches Brew", which is fairly uncommon. I think it is a very fine abrasive mixed with penetrating oil. I can't tell you how many times I gave the barrel 50 strokes with that and a bronze brush, long after I was getting clean patches with conventional stuff. Eventually, it yielded. I still get a black patch when I do that, but it doesn't copper foul nearly as much anymore.

Denton,

What kind of detergent are you referring to ?
Car wash detergent, standard dish washer detergent ?

I’ve been reading some old post’s about mixing Kroil penetrating oil with the solvent to get between the fouling and barrel steel and clean easier, would another kind of penetrating oil like WD-40 serve as well ?

Thank you

Nsiro