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| One of Us |
Quote: 338 bullets can be had in from 160gr (Barnes) to 300gr (Woodleigh). Jim | ||
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| one of us |
Well, I like the idea of the .325 WSM. If for no other reason than it might stir up some interest in manufacturing more .323 cal bullets (e.g. Noslers new 200 grs offering). If you think .308 cal bullets are a tad too small, yet have a hard time stepping up to .338 for reasons of recoil and trajectory, the .323 seems the logical compromise. A big 8 is a heck of a gun on heavy (plains) game. Now if Barnes would just make a .323 cal 200 grs TSX, that would be the ultimate bullet... - mike | |||
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| one of us |
Well i got to say it peaked my curiosity i think these wsm's are here for a while and kimber i have yet to own one of there rifles.What a great excuse to buy one | |||
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one of us |
There is an article in the new issue of "Shooting Times". It does a good job of exsplaining the logic behind the decision to chamber the 325 in lieu of a 338. I was a little disappointed in the fact that they shortened the case though. With the action of a "short" M70 being 3.100", I would have liked to have seen the 7mmWSM case necked up as-is with a lomger SAAMI O.A.L. 7X57 length of 3.050" or there abouts. It would be a simple ream and throat job to get a true 8mmWSM. Hmmmmmmmmmm. Does anyone know the magazine length of the Kimber 8400? I think I read somwhere that it is 3.100" also. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. PS: I stand corrected on the 338 bullet availability.  The 8mm choices still span about the same percentage of range though, 200% with the choices being for an appropriately lighter range of bullets. A 250gr Woodliegh @ 2600fps would still be potent (BIG) bear medicine though. | |||
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| one of us |
The January, 2005 issue of the "American Rifleman" has an article on the 325 WSM. The rifle tested was a Browning and the accuracy with five shot groups was not good but it was with three shot groups. The writer, Bryce Towsley, says that the recoil with the short magnums is less than that with other cartridges. He does not explain this however. On the other hand he got to go on a free trip. | |||
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one of us |
Savage99, I read that article, he seemed miffed that they didn't bring out a 338WSM. I still believe this gun is going to sell. I'm thinking about buying one actually. The 180 grain ballistic tip seems like a great bullet weight to me, and I'm sure it would produce excellent accuracy. If the 200 grain Partition can move along at about 2900fps, I'd like that too. I can't see anything to not like about them. Someone said that if you owned a 7mm WSM, and a 8mm WSM, you would just about have all of your bases covered. There's some truth to that. When they first came out, I didn't like the short mag concept, ( who moved my cheese?  read that book? ), but they're kind of growing on me now. | |||
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| one of us |
I do not read that Bryce was miffed at the WSM not being a 338 and in fact he seems to like it for the numbers he mentions on retained energy and less perceived recoil. It's no big deal if he mentioned it or not. He did cover Winchesters effort to make a 338 WSM. The 325 WSM does not have the faults of the 358 Win or 35 Whelan in that it has high velocity. High velocity is necessary to sell such a cartridge. Nostagia will not as the 45-70 covers that. I have quite a few rifles already and less use for another medium that kicks like the 325 WSM. I did get in on the short magnums early and have two. I like them a lot. When I had the Montana M1999 short magnum action here I ran thru the cartidges and I rejected the 338 bore as the bullets are expensive. Someone posted that there is a 160 gr 338 bullet but that may be some special pricey one. On the other hand the 8 mm bore has a wide range of bullets. I would buy a 325 WSM if I did not have so many 375's or 358's. | |||
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| one of us |
Quote: You're right I still would want to "load long" if the magazine would take the extra length. (with the proper throating of course) Does anyone know the Magazine I.D. for the Win M70 and M8400 Kimber? I was @ the Gander Mountain Watertown (New York) store and they had the M70 Supergrades in 300WSM. It looked better than the Kimber M84s that were on the rack next to them. With a good pillar bedding job I would bet that the M70 Supergrade would shoot as well as the Kimber. | |||
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| one of us |
I just had a custom 8mm Remington built. I love the cartridge and mine doesn't weight 6 pounds. It's a 27 inch fluted heavy contour Lilja in a McMillan classic stock and a Sako AV action. It's a 1/2 inch gun, and yes it kicks. I really don't see what the F$&*ing point of a 8mm WSM is? I like the 8mm cartridge, but only because it gives you a tiny bit more than a 300 Weatherby. And that's only in the 8mm Remington magnum in handloads. But the stupid bastards at FN are building a cartridge based on a 8mm in a short mag. Where is the market? How stupid is this? Smart rifle-cranks know that .325=.323=8mm end of story! Are the R&D people at FN/USRAC/BROWNING/KIMBER retarded OR WHAT? | |||
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| one of us |
6.3 lbs it's a half pound less than a M70 Featherweight Have you ever shot a 6.3 pound 338 Winchester Magnum? I have a Remington M700 Custom KS 6 pound mountain rifle in 338 and it has a KDF muzzle brake on it. It still kicks. I don't see that damn Kimber at 6.3 pounds doing anything different. OUCH! HARD AND FAST, THAT'S WHAT THE RECOIL IS GOING TO BE LIKE. CAN YOU SAY SCOPE BROW? | |||
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| one of us |
ditto kokdyer. Don't see it amounting to much | |||
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| one of us |
Sure a light rifle will kick in 325 WSM but so do other powerful guns. At least the rifle will be light to carry and thats something the others can't say. Of course the bigger calibers that kick hard are more powerful but the 325 will shoot flat and that makes it an all around gun for almost any use. I see it as a market niche and in fact I like the concept of the 325 WSM. Keep in mind that Kimbers stocks and pads are done right to control recoil effect.  | |||
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| one of us |
I look for the rifles in my gun safe to "mate" sometime this summer. I wouldn't be surprized to find a 325WSM "mysteriously"  appearing about August, probably in the form of a Kimber 8400 or maybe a Winchester M70 Supergrade.  I have seen the results of this "mating" phenomenom before, "fawns" usualy "drop" in August suggesting a definate "rut" season for centerfire rifles. I have never witnessed the actual "mating" though. Does anyone know what the "gestation" period is? Is it the same for shotguns? Do bolt actions "rut" @ a different time than other action types? Can the "quality" of the "herd" be managed with methods similar to "QDM"? Should I segregate "metric" chambered rifles from the "english" ones? | |||
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one of us |
I have a 300WSM parked right next to a brand new 375 H&H in a dark safe, so I figure I could be expecting a 338 Magnum any day now. On the other side of the 300WSM is a 22.250 though, so it could be a 6.5-284 instead. We're not going to get a sonagram because anticipation is half of the fun. | |||
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| One of Us |
.325 WSM...big yawn...but they will be easier to neck up to .358 than the .300 WSM. | |||
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| one of us |
Quote: Midway is now listing the Nosler 8mm 200gr Accubond as available! | |||
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| one of us |
Not sure why Big Red didn't go with the 338 WSM or 358 WSM or ever 9.3WSM 8mm WSM isn't going to do anything that a 8mm Remington or 8x68 will do. It's going to be a 8x63plus P. DUMB! | |||
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| one of us |
Any word on whether some of the other rifle makers will be chambering for the .325 WSM? I would consider one in a stainless/synthetic Sako! | |||
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| one of us |
Duckster, I'm a big Sako fan too, but unfortunatly they were one of the last to pick up on the Short Mags. It may have been because they engineered a completely new action to put them in and/or maybe the had to retool their hammer forge for the barrels - I don't really know. But I too wouldn't mind a Finnlite in 325 WSM...........DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
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| one of us |
quote: The market for 8MM in general is small in the US, due to the historical confusion between .318 and .323 diameter bullets. Domestic 8MM mauser rounds are loaded to very low pressure to avoid problems with the .323s being fired in .318 bores. Hence, the 8MM mauser has 300 Savage performance. However, the 8MM-06 and the 8MM-06 AI are both better than the '06 itself, which is no small thing...the AI is right on the heels of the 300 Win Mag. The 8MM Mag was not successful due to the lack of interest in 8MM here and the fact that they chose the wrong case. An 8MM 300 Win Mag would have fit into an '06 action and duplicated the 8MM Mag velocities due to greater efficiency and delivered over 2600 fps with a 250 grain semi spitzer...dang close to a 338 Winnie but with a 125 gr load at 3600 fps and a 150 grainer at 3400 fps. Since the 300 WSM almost duplicates the 300 Winnie, it was theorized that a .323 WSM would come close to an 8MM 300 Winnie. Lab tests proved this to be the case, and we were off to the races. There are two problems with this. First, there is no earthly reason that the 323 WSM will be any better in the field than a 300 WSM. I dust varmints with 110 gr spitzers at 3800 fps with MY 300 WSM and shoot 0.5 MOA with 220 gr RNs at 2720 fps. Second, the solution to the bullet weight and velocity issue is simply to offer lighter bullets in .338 caliber, and by someone other than Barnes which has only the X-bullets which are expensive and not great for varmints. In fact, a 150 gr .338 spitzer would have a sectional density that is equivalent to the 125 gr .308. This application would be a natural for BT technology with a large hollow cavity to keep the bullet long enough to engage the lands for good accuracy. Yes these could be used in a 338 WSM or 338 Win driven at 3500 fps, but they would make sense in a 338-06 at 3300 fps as well. | |||
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| one of us |
The WSM are the shortest most powerfull factory cartridges in their respective calibers available to the Nort American market. Now guns like Kimbers are complementing their proportions and completing the package. It's a great time to be here! bigbull | |||
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| new member |
I know that no one was apparently able to get the 338 WSM to match the performance of the 338 Win Mag, but the 325 WSM seems too similar to the 300 WSM, let alone 8 mm. Has anyone built a 338 WSM wildcat and gotten better performance than a 338-06? | |||
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| one of us |
quote: No but I have been able to get 338-06 performance from an 8mm-06. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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| one of us |
Wildcat, the magazine box on my Kimber 8400 in 300wsm is 3.045".  | |||
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| new member |
"I know that no one was apparently able to get the 338 WSM to match the performance of the 338 Win Mag, but the 325 WSM seems too similar to the 300 WSM, let alone 8 mm. Has anyone built a 338 WSM wildcat and gotten better performance than a 338-06?" | |||
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| new member |
"I know that no one was apparently able to get the 338 WSM to match the performance of the 338 Win Mag, but the 325 WSM seems too similar to the 300 WSM, let alone 8 mm. Has anyone built a 338 WSM wildcat and gotten better performance than a 338-06?" I have a 338-300 WSM for which I am working up loads. I have been able to get 2904 FPS with a Nosler 200 grain Ballistic Tip bullet using W760. | |||
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| one of us |
quote: And the 325 WSM gets 2950fps from a 200gr bullet. That seems to support the theory that the 8mm is a better choice for the WSM case. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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| <allen day> |
Light bullets aren't what the middle-bores are all about. They come into their own with heavy bullets, and it's when bullet weight is between 225 grs. and 250 grs. that they perform at their best, and heavy bullets and the WSM case is a combination that simply doesn't make any sense. What's the advantage, anyway? A half-inch shorter bolt throw and a few ounces less carrying weight? Big, bloody deal! Outside of that, from a ballistic and performance-standpoint, I'd rather have a .300 firing 180 or 200 gr. bullets than I would an .325 firing 200 gr. bullets any day of the week, and when it comes to 8mms, I'd also rather have an 8mm Rem. Mag. than this .325 WSM hatchling any day of the week........ AD | ||
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one of us |
quote: Allen, that's because you're much younger and in better shape than I am. The bit of weight off the rifle makes a HUGE difference for us old mountain hunters! I do agree with your preferences and theory, however. To me it's a waste to shoot anything less than a 225g pill in a 338, yet the 200's and 210's do well and if weight is an issue as it is for me, those works almost as well. quote: Winchester says a lot about velocity that is not likely borne out in real tests. Certainly the "range results" in the test which appeared in the Rifleman didn't bear this velocity out. That has also not been my experience with 200g bullets in short barreled 338/300's. I've built 4 and while I've gotten some respectable velocity out of them the ALL fall short of what a 338 Win Mag will do. I'm right now chambering one for 325WSM. I sure don't have expectations of reaching the ambitious claims of Olin with any of their offerings. And, yes, I've done much better in velocity with the 338/300's than any 338/'06. After all there is a significan't disparity in case capacity between the WSM's and the '06 case, just as there is between the WSM's and the 338 Win Mag. They are bound to be faster according to case capacity. Anyone can overload a case but to do it safely and consistently, case capacity makes all the difference in the world, not the caliber. | |||
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| new member |
Thanks, Bob! The reason I asked was that the numbers quoted by Boddington (and one other I can't recall) were no better than top end 338-06 loads. On the other hand I have seen some impressive figures by handloaders who made up a wildcat - yet I wonder if they were loaded too hot. | |||
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