I shot a antelope in Sept. Was using a Nosler BT 140 g. bullet that came apart when the antelope was hit in the right sholder. One small piece went on to break the left sholder. The exit hole was very small. Smaller than a pencil. Would the Horand SST bullet hold up better than the Nosler?
THANKS
Jerry

The bonded core bullets of any type would probably hold together better than a BT. Some of the earlier ones are reported to be softer than some of the current ones(BTs).

What caliber, impact velocity, and cartridge were you using? Plateau Hunter

I would say that bullet did its job. I would rather have a bullet come all apart inside the game then it stay together and go on thru and only wound the animal. No matter who makes the bullet.

A buddy shot a small buck at about 150 yds using his 300 HH and Hornady 180 gr Interlocks and hit the animal just behind the shoulder and due to it going away the bullet made eight holes from the bucks brisket to shoulder.

The buck shouted out "Bullet Failure, Bullet Failure, Bull......" and then fell over dead.

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Would the Horand SST bullet hold up better than the Nosler?

The SST is actually a bit lighter jacketed and would likely not stand up better than the BT.

Personally, I think that for pronghorns the SST and BT style of bullet is ideal.

Sorry to hear you're not satisfied.

The SST has the advantage of the Interlock ring, but either weight 140grains in an Accubond or Interbond would be fine.

Jerry any bullet hitting bone is going to cause a lot of damage and loss of meat. All a premium bullet would have done in this case is to take out both shoulders.

It's all about shot placement. Antelope are easier to kill than deer and don't require premium bullets.

The buck shouted out "Bullet Failure, Bullet Failure, Bull......" and then fell over dead.

Great line--in fact, if you don't mind, I'll use it from time to time when folks get critical of BTs. I use 150 gr BTs in my 7Mag due to their great accuracy, and everything I've shot with them, from coyote to feral hog to whitetails has been DRT!

jro45's observation is right on target IMO.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dustoffer:
The buck shouted out "Bullet Failure, Bullet Failure, Bull......" and then fell over dead.

Great line--in fact, if you don't mind, I'll use it from time to time when folks get critical of BTs. I use 150 gr BTs in my 7Mag due to their great accuracy, and everything I've shot with them, from coyote to feral hog to whitetails has been DRT!

jro45's observation is right on target IMO (The bullet did its job).

"Bullet failure, bullet failure..." Yes, another version of "At what point in the animal's death did the bullet fail?" and equally meaningful.

I believe a bullet can fail and still have the animal die. A person who recognizes the difference can change bullets to reduce the likelihood that a future bullet failure will have an animal crawling off to remain unrecovered. Continuing to use that failed bullet type may never cause that outcome, but I believe ethically we have a responsibility to do what we can to prevent it.

Jaywalker

Thank you for your reply Jaywalker. All the guides that I talked to on this hunt did not like their hunters using BT,s bullets for big game. As these people see more big game taken in one season than I will in a life time. I have not hunted for over 30 years I need some help on this issue. My question is why are there so many questions about the BT,s bullets.
THANKS to every one for there reply (Pro or Con.)
Jerry

quote:

The buck shouted out "Bullet Failure, Bullet Failure, Bull......" and then fell over dead.

The bullet broke BOTH shoulders and killed the animal? Isn't that what you wanted it to do? Or are you one of those guys who likes to add another dimension to hunting by following a "good blood trail" for a half mile or so before claiming your trophy?

Welcome to the world of NBTs at high vel. I think it's a fine bullet if you can limit yor impact vel. to under 2700fps. Above that, you just don't know if they'll stay together or not, same for the SST. Switch to the NAB for a bit more bullet integrity or th HIB if it will shoot in your rifle (mine don't like them). I won't hunt w/ the NBT, yes they are accurate, just too many better bullets to choose from.

I've seen a lot more long trailing jobs and lost animals due to failure to expand than to overexpansion on deer. The story might be different on tough stuff, but we don't have much of that in Virginia. Massive shock will lay a whitetail down.

In the early '70s, I hunted with a club whose members shot 180 grain Remingtons from .30-06 and .308 almost to a man. They always got complete penetration, but half the deer they shot needed to be trailed.

At the other extreme, I know a father and son who use .264s loaded to the max with 100-110 grain varmint bullets. They throw away a lot of bloodshot meat, but they don't lose no deer and their idea of a long trailing job is about 20 paces.

In 30 plus years of hunting and reloading, I have no complaints about Nosler's solid base, ballistic tip, or partition. I've also used Sierra's HPBT Gameking and Hornady's interlock with good results. In fact, the only thing that even comes close to a bullet failure are the various 130s and 140s in .277 diameter. In almost every case holes were humongous and friends complained of bullet failure, however, the fact remains that those animals were stopped in their tracks.
When it comes to a favorite bullet, I'll pick the partition every time. Next comes Nosler's ballistic tip, Sierra's HPBT, Hornady's interlock, and last but not least, Remington's core-lokt. Of the later choices, I pick them based on either accuracy, or economy.

quote:

Stonecreek: The bullet broke BOTH shoulders and killed the animal? Isn't that what you wanted it to do? Or are you one of those guys who likes to add another dimension to hunting by following a "good blood trail" for a half mile or so before claiming your trophy?

No, I like a good DRT, but there are bullets avaialable today that can do DRT and stay together through a small or medium sized animal.

It appears from the post that the bullet broke apart after the first shoulder and only a portion penetrated the second. I do call that marginal performance, given that an antelope's shoulder isn't that heavy an obstacle, comparatively speaking. The Nosler BTs of the last few years should be sturdy enough to handle that chore, unless they're driven at too high a velocity, or something else goes wrong.

What caliber and velocity were you shooting?

Jaywalker

The caliber was a 7mm RM with MV at 3000 fps. The antelope was at 244 yards. The antelpoe could not run but was very much alive. Shot him one more time to finsh the job. Years ago when I would shoot a deer in the sholder that was it. May be I just need to go with the lead tip bullets.
THANKS Jerry

Jerry,

fredj338 is likely right. The Nosler Ballistic Tip is a "standard" (as opposed to a "premium") bullet. Many people have good luck at 3000 fps MV with premiums. It's not the plastic tip that's the issue - it's the bullet construction. Bonded (Nosler AccuBond, Hornady InterBond, Swift Scirocco II) or the monometal (Barnes TSX, etc), or the divided bullets (Swift A-Frame, Nosler Partition) do well at both high and low velocities.

I like standard bullets (Hornady Spire Point) for my 6.5x55, but the velocities never get over 2800 fps in them.

Jaywalker

I've killed three deer, all under 100yds with L/M 139SSTs at 3000fps (chronied). I've found them to be a little tougher than most. I agree with those that think your bullet did what it was designed to do. It dumped most energy in the body of a relatively small game animal and exited. What more do you want? You said the animal couldn't run. Was it standing or down? If that bullet had hit behind the shoulder the animal would have probably run and fallen over dead. I believe that A heavier constructed bullet would probably given no quicker, and probably slower, death. capt david

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I believe that A heavier constructed bullet would probably given no quicker, and probably slower, death. capt david

But what about a "good blood trail"? Not only would the fast-expanding bullet not leave a good blood trail, even if it did, the blood trail would only be 10 or 20 steps long. That's no fun!

why dont you use swift bullets the sirroco wich is the priemium verion of the ballistic tip.

A couple years ago my fatehr and I went antelope hunting. We both ended up using my 7mm-08 to take both animals. She is sighted in using Hornady Light Mags shooting the 139 grain SST chronoed from my rifle at an ave of 2995 fps. Both anilams were taken at less tha n200 yards. Neither of us hit a shoulder. My shot borke a near side rib and exited the other side between two ribs. My fathers shots broke a near side and far side rib and the bullet came to rest just under the skin with 80%+ weight retention. The same combo is going after Mule Deer this fall in Wyoming.

I have used 6.5mm 120 NBTs and 7mm 140 NBTs for deer and antelope. Although some of them come apart, I always end up with a dead critter and minimal meat damage - actually I use NBTs almost exclusively, except in my 358 Win. I use Sierra 225s because the .358 NBTs are too long for my action. I will, however, be using .358 Accubonds in .358 for the Whelen.

I have used SST's on game (deer and pronghorn) from 40ish yds out to 380yd. No problems and all the animals were DRT. And I have used the SST's for my muzzleloader on deer at 76 and 170yds and again both DRT.

I am shooting a 7mm-08 and my MV is only around 2800fps.

I "think" the SST's are tougher than NBT, but that is my feeling based on anecdotal experience of my SST use and friend NBT use. I am sure if you looked, you could find someone with the opposite experience.

I'm sorry guys, but all I will use either bullet on is Prairie dogs...They do a good job on them.

The wife and I shoot 270's with 130 or 140 grain Hornady's at around 300 fps. Have for over a decade and a half and during that time we've killed anywhere from 2 to 6 antelope a year, probably about 4 on average. Mostly DRT, BUT...

We have had some strange things happen especially with shots that hit a bone at an angle or maybe wacked a sagebrush twig in front of the animal. My impression is that the Hornady Interlocks or SST's simply come apart when they hit, penetration is not their long suit.

A few days ago my wife shot a buck at about 200 yds twice with a 130 gr Interloc, one shot quartering towards her, the other broadside, neither penetrated completely. Animal DRT so no complaints. A few days before she wacked a doe at about 150 yds behind the shoulder and it blew right through.

I shot a doe at about 175 and the 140gr. SST blasted right through, broadside, no bones hit, she ran 50 yds. Hit a buck at 350, broke both front legs at the should joint took out the heart, exited. In the past however, I've had nearly identical shot placements fail to penetrate or just disintergrate in the body cavity.

I'm a bit concerned about consistency with the Hornady and may just go to 130 gr Partitions to get "the same, same, every time".

First the hard details:

Hornady SST, pure copper jacket, somewhat thinner (much thinner in 180 grain .308 and larger sizes where the NBT gets THICK) jacket, similar design.

Nosler Ballistic tip HUNTING (not VARMINT), gilding metal jacket, very thick base, heavier jacket (much heavier in 180 grain .308 and above), no cannelure to screw up accuracy.

NBT's have given better accuracy than SST's in my rifles in head2head shooting tests over 3 combinations of caliber and weight.

My observations. I used the 140 grain NBT for years in a .280 (Win factory load), and when I started handloading I tried 140 and 150 grain NBTs in the .280 and 150, 165, and 180 in a 300WSM. Multiple animals with all bullets listed. I tried to compare the 180 SST one year with the 180 NBT, 2 deer each, all lung shots, profile presentation. You can do a lot of this during cull shoots, BTW. All bullets exited. All were shot from a 300WSM at 2950 or so MV, under 100 yards. All animals were recovered, dead. Both SST shot ones ran, one for about 100 yards (buck in rut) and one about 50 yards. Both NBT shot deer went under 10 yards, mirroring virtually all my previous experience with NBT's over the years. I've busted a lot of shoulders with NBT's too, and to stop a bullet for recovery/examination I have to shoot deer lengthwise (end to end)...did it twice and found one under the hide at the rear leg and one in the rear ham after it broke the thigh bone.

I've done all the testing I care to with SST's and do not plan to buy any more. There is simply no reason IMO...they aren't significantly different in price, are slightly less accurate, and give slightly worse on game performance...in my experience of course. Both will kill deer and pronghorn doornail dead with proper shot placement. Your milage may vary, all standard disclaimers apply, etc. etc. etc.

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Originally posted by Savage99:
The buck shouted out "Bullet Failure, Bullet Failure, Bull......" and then fell over dead.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
Welcome to the world of NBTs at high vel. I think it's a fine bullet if you can limit yor impact vel. to under 2700fps. Above that, you just don't know if they'll stay together or not, same for the SST. Switch to the NAB for a bit more bullet integrity or th HIB if it will shoot in your rifle (mine don't like them). I won't hunt w/ the NBT, yes they are accurate, just too many better bullets to choose from.

Absolutely correct!

TAke the Interbond or the Brenneke TOG and be happy! The BT is only for very thin skinned game ond lower velocety.

quote:

Would the Horand SST bullet hold up better than the Nosler?

In my experience, no. The Nosler has a slight edge due to it's thicker jacket and solid base.

Accubonds are fairing well for many hunters if you like pretty plastic tips. I'm loading them for alot of guys that love em' on hogs, whitetail, and mulies. Matter of fact I've got to load up about 200 more sometime soon.

Good Luck

Reloader