On the classic "one gun for North America" which is the better caliber. Or should I buy a savage and switch barrels?

They are basically the same and what one will do the other will do. Pick the one you like and go for it.
I do strongly believe in the medium bore working gun that each of these calibers, if built properly, can easily handle.

This is like the .270 v .280, just too close to call. I prefer the .338-06 because when I had mine made, there were more .338 dia. bullets available. Today, flip a coin. The .338-06 may be a bit better as you stretch the range & the .35Wh a bit better up close on bigger/tougher animals like the big bears. Either makes a great med. bore for hunting just about anything but the big 3 of Africa.

Yupp, difference is mostly on paper. Specific bulletweight will go faster in a .35 Whelen, but it will have better BC in .338. If 225grs is enough weight, go with the .338. If you feel the need for 250's, go for the Whelen.

I had a 35 Whelen I rebarreled to my 338-06. I did it because of the bullet selection and felt a good 210gr bullet gave me a better all around rifle. Still having the option of a heavier bullet. If you don't reload the whelen ammo will be cheaper and easier to find.

There sure isn't enough difference for me to consider a switch barrel.

I like my 338-06 better as I have a little more reach with it. 180 Accubonds and 185 TSX at 3000 fps. You can also load 270 gr Swift if you want some really heavy for the cal bullets.

On paper, I think the nod goes to the 338-06. In actual field experience you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

I personally feel the 35 Whelen could use a little more powder capacity for the 35 caliber bullets.

I think the 338-06 is a better all around rifle. I built mine specifically for elk and it has done a fantastic job with 210 gr TSX's and NP's @ 2725-2850 fps. A 180gr @ 3000fps to a 250gr @ 2500fps. What more do you need?

I believe Barnes makes a 160gr TSX and I have some 275 & 300gr bullets sitting on my reloading bench that I haven't had time to play with yet.

I have also used it to shoot antelope, deer, & black bear.

Keep in mind that this is all pretty much nitpicking.

Bigger diameter kills better, and higher velocity kills farther. And these two are so close that it doesn't much matter.

To me the key is that neither of these rank as a DG cartridge. Throw in the 9.3 X 62 and we have an issue!

Both are handloaders specials but the .35 Whelen a bit less so.

I prefer the 338-06 for the reasons already posted.....better BC and better bullet selection.

Had Remington bought out the 338-06 years ago instead of the 35 whelen we'd have never heard of the 35 Whelen!

Toss a coin, you'll never see difference in the field.

That said, I'd say neither are the best one gun for NA. If your traveling, having available factory ammo is a plus, in which case the 338 win mag makes so much more sense.

Also if you want a more compact rifle, I've grown really fond of the 350 rem mag.

Neither damn it! Buy a 30-06 and be content!

Now that said however, were I to build one or the other, I would have to go with the Whelen. Simply because the Whelen is a little older, a little more nostaligic, and a very talented friend has a 338-06 that he built so I'd have to have a Whelen just to do something different.

There are arguments in favor and against each, but its really a "six of this/one half dozen of the other" type of discussion. Were I forced to make a hard decision, I think I'd allow economics to factor in and purchase whichever cartridge I could find components and accessories for that cost the least and were most readily available.

If I had to pick between the two, I'd have to go with the whelen. But I guess I'm kinda partial to 35's, lesse 38 sp, 357 mag, 357 max, 357 Herret, 35 whelen Ackley, 350 rem mag and 350 Rigby.

That said the 338 win mag still makes more sense than either of the two for a one gun for NA.

One thing to consider is 338 bullets are designed for 338 mag velocities, 358 bullets are designed for 35 whelen velocities.

Which is why the 210grNP is MADE for the .338-06. It expands just the right amount & still penetrates more than most of us would ever need & making a fine size whole on it's way out. Right one is from a Kudu bull, left from wetpack.

My 35W has never let me down, either at the range or on critter. However, I know that no game animal in NA would be able to recognize what hit them. Go with flicks your BIC.

9.3x62mm?

quote:

To me the key is that neither of these rank as a DG cartridge. Throw in the 9.3 X 62 and we have an issue!

I think the 338-06 and Whelen will do anything the 9.3 will do. If I'm not comfortable with a 9.3, I wouldn't be comfortable with the 338-06 or 35 Whelen.

Elephant and Hippo are the only critters I absolutely wouldn't hunt with the 338-06/35/9.3.

They wouldn't be my first choice on Cape Buffalo. But if you can kill them with 338 WM and 300 WM I can't imagine the above three not doing the job.

Lion and leopard aren't a problem unless you don't put the bullet in the right spot. Then that's a whole different topic.

I absolutely love my Whelens as they just plain work. Easy to reload, easy to shoot and out to 300 yards, everything in NA is in trouble. Either (I always have a tough decision on which one to take) is always the fist one out of the cabinet to go hunting.

That being said, I think the perfect one gun rifle for NA may be the 300 wsm. It covers the light game very well and if you can get to 200 yards of the very big stuff (big bears) it will work well.

I would load 165/168 TSX's for all the small to medium big game (pronghorn to elk) and 200 grain Partitions for bears and moose. Of course this could all be accomplished with an '06, you just have to get 100 yards closer.

Half the fun in being a good hunter is the ability to get close to game, on the other hand the ability to take game out past 3 or 4 hundred yards is the sign of a great rifleman. My vote goes to the 35 whelen when sighted in right it will take game out to 350 yards with good hand loads.

Craven

Before I built my 338-06 I had the notion of building a Mauser chambered for the 318 Wessley Richards. This was a classic British cartridge and proved extremely effective on African game. Ballistically, it is almost identical to the 338-06. Considering the availability of brass and 338 bullet choices I opted for the 338-06 but on a M70 action.

With the good bullets to choose from today I would have to believe the 338-06 to be just as effective as the 318 WR has been for so many years.

338-06, or 35 Whelen, well, I own them both, and the 338-06 is soon to become a 257 Roberts AI. I guess that says it all.


Jerry

Jerry,

I figured you would chime in here sooner or later and cast a vote for the Whelen.

Where the 210 grain Partition is to the 338-06, the 225 Barnes TSX is to the Whelen.

I wish this picture was better, but this is a 225gr TSX pulled from the base of the skull of a warthog going away. It maintained 100% of its weight and penetrated about 3 feet of piggy before stopping against solid bone. Needless to say the warthog didn't go any further after this shot.

When I had that debate in my mind some 10 to 15 years ago, I decide to try a 338/06 first and had another rifle hanging loose to be rebarreled to a 35 Whelan....

One noticed right off that the 338/06 was a step up from a 30/06... and performance on game was equal to a 338 Mag... Not necessarily on paper, but definitely on game....

I also noticed that where I hunt, which is the lower 48, that there is not anything that a 200 grain bullet at 2950 fps or a 225 grain bullet at 2750 fps won't kill.....with good bullet placement of course....

As far as the other rifle that was waiting to be a 35 Whelan, well it is still wearing that 30/06 barrel it had on it.... and will never see a Whelan barrel on it as long as I own it...

And my two 338 mags, spend a lot of time collecting dust, except when I get the bug to bring them out and load them to 33 Winchester specs, and go have some nostalgic fun at the range... or go bear hunting with them, loaded to about 2250 fps with a 225 grain bullet....behind 35 grains of SR 4759....

So my vote supports the 338/06 works just fine.. and I don't use premium bullets.. Hornady SPs, seem to work just fine.....

cheers
seafire

quote:

Originally posted by nordrseta:

9.3x62mm?

nordrseta,

A couple of articles:

The 9.3 x 62 Mauser
A Most Marvelous Metric

Introduced in 1905; .366" caliber firing a 286 gr bullet at around 2300-2400 fps. The case is very similar to a .30-06 but with the shoulder a little further forward. I have a CZ 550 in 9.3x62 and it's a great cartridge. I also have a .35 Whelen and I like it too. There's nothing wrong with the .338-06 either. It's really just a modern version of the .318 Westley Richards (as Clem mentions above) which came out around 1910. The standard load was a 250gr .330" bullet at 2400 fps.

.338-06, .35 Whelen, 9.3x62???.... Pick the one you like, go hunting, and be happy.

-Bob F.

I agree 100% with Seafire.

quote:

"one gun for North America"

The more I think about this, the more I think the 338-06 is the right choice for this question. It will do anything the Whelen will do, with better ballistics and lighter recoil.

When I go to SE Alaska next spring, my 338-06 is going. When I get around to grizzly/brown bear, my 338-06 is going. If and when I ever get to Africa my 338-06 is going.

You can substitute the 35 Whelen and you would never be able to tell the difference in the field. But in IMO the 338-06 has a slight advantage over the Whelen.

Seafire,
What's your thoughts on using 250gr premium and solids for Cape Buffalo? I have a 416 Rigby that I plan to use when/if I make it to Africa. But I thought I should maybe have some 338-06 Cape Buff ammo just in case as a back up.

Here is a good article.

http://www.quarterbore.com/library/articles/33806.html

The classic one gun battery in my humble opinion is the venerable 30-06 with 180s, and 220s. With that said, of the choices you listed I'd go for the 338-06 as sectional density will always be in your favor. No flies on the 35 Whelen either, but there are issues with twist rate and bullet weight.

quote:

Originally posted by Clem:
Here is a good article.

http://www.quarterbore.com/library/articles/33806.html

Interesting article. However, I feel the author does not give the .35 Whelen the credit it deserves. For one thing, factory .35 Whelen ammo is not loaded to it's full potential due to all the old 1903 Springfields that were either rebarreled or rebored to the Whelen. The other issue is the fact that about the only .35 caliber cartridge American hunter seem to like is that pissant .35 Remington. The .358 Win. and .35 Whelen are literally the Ridney Dangerfields of the shooting world in as much as they get no respect. Well, maybe no respect from those that haven't used one and just repeat the BS from so-called "egg-spurt" in the gun rags that say it's just a brush gun or a medium range hunting round at best.
I do agree with the comment that there are issues on the barrel's twist rate. I figure Remington's people had their heads up their rectal orifaces when they went to a 1 in 16" twist. Naturally Ruger followed suit with a "Monkey see, monkey do" attitude. Just plain dumb IMHO. Now, the 1 in 16" twist will in most cases properly stabilize bullets up to 250 gr. which is the heaviest Remington loads. I understand Federal has dropped their 225 gr. premium load which pisses me off. I was just getting to like it, even if I felt it was over priced. I still have a few, but when they're gone?????
You load up the Whelen with a 275 gr. bullet to it's proper level and you will be snapping at the heels of the vaunted 9.3x62. That's a darn nice place to be regarding a power level.
Now I'm not knocking the 338-06 by any means. It's just that it does not walk on water and the .35 Whelen is not the piece of crap many seem to think it is. For one thing, with the velocity level of the .35 Whelen being what it is, there really is no need for pricey premium bullets. A plain old 250 gr. cup and core will do the job just fine. If spending more money for a bullet floats your boat, go for it, but it really isn't necessary. At least, IMHO, I don't think so.
Paul B.

15years ago the 338-06 would be king, but with the bullet selection of today, the 35 Whelan's extra diameter is better.

However I wouldn't sell one for the other. They both are efficient and perfect for NA.

Don't know the 35 Remington, that is one fine cartridge for what it is. It's definately a better deer killer then a 30-30. It's true the 358 Win gets no respect, more like no attention. To me that is one of the finest 35 caliber cartridges ever created.

quote:

Originally posted by whizzbang:
On the classic "one gun for North America" which is the better caliber. Or should I buy a savage and switch barrels?

I own a 35 Whelen and my Dad owns a 338-06 and a 338-06 Ack. Imp. I've fired all 3 rifles extensively. We've killed two large bull elk with them; 1 with the 35 one with the 338. Personally, I don't think there's a nickels worth of difference in the two with sinilarly constructed bullets of similar sectional density. BUT, I'd pick the Whelen simply because there are a PLETHORA of bullets that can be fired from the Whelen. From 100 gr. cast wadcutters to 280-300 gr. jacketed bullets. I think alot of people forget that the Whelen can use ANY bullet that the 38 Spec. or 357 Mag. uses. If you're not into reduced loads or small game hunting with a big game rifle, take your pick.

To me a hunting rifle should only have one load, that way you know the trajectory, always have the right load with you, and don't have to mess with scope zero. I see no difference between one rifle with two loads, and two seperate rifles each with their own load.

So, to me the 338-06 or 35 whelen pushing a 225 @ 2700 fps is much more of the one gun for NA than the -06 with a 180 @ 2700, though if you dropped the great bears from the list, I'd concede the 180 gr -06 is just as good.

As far as 338 vs 35, as I've said before, 338-06 sounds sexy, 35 makes bigger hole, you choose.

I'd also add to the balistic argument, look how far out you have to go before a 225 35 has slowed down to 500 yds. Now I don't think of a 35 as a 500 yd deer rifle, but there is no doubt in my mind there is more than enough power for that task should one learn their trajectory well enough, and be accurate enough to properly place the bullet.

I CAN appreciate the flexibility of 35 pistol bullets, which I use in my Marlin 357 and 350 RM, yet, for a game rifle, the 338/06 with 200 ballistic tip gives me the reach, stomp, and the reduced recoil vs say a 35 Whelen with 225's.

I do prefer 225's myself in the 338 bore for Elk, but that is just me.

In reality, in the field, I see little difference in killing power with appropriate bullets, but the 338 does seem to be a tad flatter shooting from my recollection and I always heard, though perhaps rumor, that a standard Whelen had marginal shoulder area for headspace, and could cause misfires, etc. but that does not seem to be a real concern. Nonetheless, if strictly wanting to use pistol bullets for small game up to HEAVIES for bear the Whelen must get the nod, but if one never needs nor intends to hunt small game, and strictly uses their rifles for deer, elk, and bear, the 338/06 will do the job nicely I am sure. Never heard anyone who used it knock it, and they all do seem to see quicker kills than smaller bores. I think the killing effect is much more pronounced going from 7mm/30 cal to 338, than say from 338 to 358.

That is my .02. Again, not knocking the Whelen, it stands on its own, but I prefer the 338/06. A case could be made for a slighter shorter action Whelen-the 350 Rem Mag, near identical ballistics. Currently we don't have a factory 338/06 in short form, though a 325 WSM is close......within .015

If I was doing a nice Springfield custom the .35 Whelen would be a no brainer, but on just about anything else I would (did) go for the .338-06

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
If I was doing a nice Springfield custom the .35 Whelen would be a no brainer, but on just about anything else I would (did) go for the .338-06

Terry

That's always been my feeling too. Since I'm a Mauser guy, you know which I went for.

I Just have not been able to get the velocities, out of my 338-06. Now I know the expansion ratio is lower with the 35 cal bore, and maybe thats why I can push the 250 over 2600fps, and the 225 over 2700 fps out of the Whelen. BTW point of impact with either bullet is the same at 100 yds. I don't see BC as an argument between the two, as "neither", IMO, is a long range cartridge. A lot of the guys I know have been building 338-06's with 28" barrels. Seems a little unweildy to me but. As to twist rate in the Whelen, I can't imagine the need for a bullet over 250 grains, bigger than that, shoot a 375 H&H.

I think the Whelen is the quintessential elk cartridge. Lots of power, manageable recoil, perfect name. LOL!!


Jerry

Jerry, I think my velocities are entirely repeatable, with WW brass and the right powders and a good barrel. Mine was 23", not 28.

Also, as to BC, long range is relative but in my mind, if I had to shoot to 400 or a bit further, I would not hesitate with an accurate 338-06 and 200-225's of good BC, how the Whelen shoots to 400 I am not sure, but I have to imagine it drops a few more inches. I imagine most Whelen owners hunt far under 250 yds than over, which is where much game is killed anyhow. Not knocking the whelen, just stating why I went with 338 bore.

6.5br:

Some good points, I grant you. But I must be real spoiled hunting in Arizona for elk. I have killed 6, the last 10 years, and have watched another 9 go down, with various cartridges, the Whelen being one of them. The longest shot, 225 yards. This year, I killed a "huge" cow with a 50 cal muzzel loader, and that shot was 122 steps. Shots over 300 yards where I hunt, just don't happen. Then again I like to sneak up on them like an indian, and take a close shot. Still, I haven't been able to get the 338-06 to stack up to my Whelen.

Jerry

JE, I'm impressed that you drew an elk tag 6 of 10 years in AZ. I doubt though that there is really any sig. diff. in killing ability between the two rounds. i would probably give a slight advantage to the larger Whelen inside 200yds w/ a 250gr bullet. Then again, I've never killed anything w/ the .338-06 & 250gr bullets.........yet.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
JE, I'm impressed that you drew an elk tag 6 of 10 years in AZ.

Yeah, I'm unbelievably impressed.

quote:

Seafire,
What's your thoughts on using 250gr premium and solids for Cape Buffalo? I have a 416 Rigby that I plan to use when/if I make it to Africa. But I thought I should maybe have some 338-06 Cape Buff ammo just in case as a back up.

SDH:

Ya know, I am not qualified to answer that question... I have no intention of ever going to Africa period...I know the 250 grain Hornady RN and the SP do some unbelievable penetration..

However, a Cape Buffalo is supposedly a big tough customer.... but you also mentioned a 416 RRigby... I have to admit, I don't have any need for any caliber bigger than 338 where I hunt, ( except I do have and love my 444 Marlin)....but I have had an interest in a 416 Remington and especially the 416 Rigby for nostalgia reasons...

If I had a friend going to Africa and he wanted to borrow my 338/06, I would consider loaning it to him... but if I was in his shoes.. I'd try the 338/06 on Cape Buffalo to see what she would do....but I would be carrying the 416 Rigby for the serious work.....

The 416 Rigby and the 375 H & H are just two nostalgic cartridges that I think any true rifle lover, should have a lot of respect for..

Just like any true rifle lover should have a Winchester Model 54 or Model 70 in 30/06 in there gun cabinet.. I hardly hunt with my Model 70s in 30/06... but I would never be without one, well Two really!

My 338/06 is on a Model 70 action also! and a Leupold 2 x 7 Shotgun scope with the heavy duplex reticle...which sure was nice in the heavy Oregon cover it was hunting elk in this past week....and skunked on!

Seafire,
Thanks for the response. I was just curious.

Sorry to hear you got skunked on elk. But at least you were out in the woods.

The SD Black Hills rifle deer season opens Wednesday(Nov 1). I will be carrying my my 338-06 with 200gr Hornady SP. My rifle is a model 700 with 22" fluted Pac-Nor barrel and Mcmillan mountain rifle stock. It wears a Leup 2.5-8 in ultra low rings. It shoots great and is a joy to carry all day.

I also own in 338-06:
A Remington 7600 pump and FN in 338-06.
I also have a #4 contour Pac-Nor 23.5" fluted barrel chambered in 338-06 and waiting for the gunsmith to have time to mate it to a CZ 550 action.