I read on another forum that Browning has signesd a deal with Olin to manufacture Winchester.

Anybody else hear about this?

Yup.

www.winchester.com

Browning merely obtained the right to the Winchester name that USRAC had. Since USRAC and Browning are both just subsidiaries of FN, all that has happened is the Winchester name has moved to a different division. The New Haven plant is still dead, and no M70s or M94s are on near horizon.

Paolo,
Yeah, you are right on the nuts about that! Browning doesn't actually manufacture anything, do they? Probably, M70's will be manufactured in Japan, by whoever manufactures Brownings now. But Portugal and Russia have also been mentioned.

Pedro,
You are right on the money, except I don't think it will be that long until we can expect to see Japanese Model 70's, possibly a year or two. I'm sure Olin wants to get these back in production ASAP.

Hell, if the past is any indicator to the future we will be getting model 70 rifles of a higher quality from Browning.

Woodrow,

Very likely Japanese M70's would be of higher quality! It will be interesting to see what the new models will be, whether they will continue on with current models or have entirely new models. It will also be interesting to see how a foreign-made M70 goes over in the market place.

What happened to Paolo's post?

Actually, Browning doesn't make anything. They just sell stuff marked "Browning". However, recently, both Winchester (USRAC) and Browning have been marketing some of the same guns under either name-mostly John Browning designs like the M1886, M95, M71, and the Win. single Shots in Hi and Lo-wall configurations. Their products have always been made for them by other companies-some in Belgium (FN), and some in Japan......

Wasn't that an easy way to get rid of a union and outsource.

I would buy a Japanese made M70 in a heart beat. I have owned only one M70, it was a piece of crap! A shoddy rifle that 3 trips to the repair center could not fix. I would prefer they were made in the USA, but if it takes outsourcing to improve the quality, so be it. Now a Russian made Winchester, dont think so.

quote:

Originally posted by 260encore:
. I would prefer they were made in the USA, but if it takes outsourcing to improve the quality, so be it. Now a Russian made Winchester, dont think so.

We have a lot of good machinists in this country. The lack of quality has more to do with the bottom line and get it out the mentality than anything; a lesson that is hard to overcome in America today. You have to remember Unions happen for a reason nobody just starts one for fun. At that point everyone loses.

I would be happy if Miroku did the machining on new Model 70's. It makes me sad that the Model 70's probably won't be American made anymore, but the guns that Miroku's made seem uniformly well-machined, and I like the Model 70 design.

All four Model 70's I bought in the last 3 years had to be returned for service. Three of them were recalled. One was unrepairable, as the scope mounting holes were drilled really crooked (noticeable to the naked eye) and the barrel was noticeably pointed left of the action centerline. The replacement rifle that the very good customer service people at USRAC provided me also had to be returned for the recall. I can't imagine those rifles could be profitable with that number of returns. So while I'm sad that they likely won't be made in the US, I can understand why they couldn't continue to be made where they were.

That said, the three rifles I still have are all slick and very accurate now.

It'd be neat if they could do better out in South Dakota vice Japan, and I'd pay a premium to buy a well-made, American-made Model 70. But I'd buy a Miroku-made Model 70, too.

There can be no doubt that someone, somewhere, will produce the model 70 Winchester again. Also without a doubt, I'll not buy one. My prejudices revolve around recent price gouging, not its place of manufacture. In the future, any Winchester I own, or trade, will be a pre-64.

I know there are plenty of good machinist in our country. Not going to debate the union issue with you. I own plenty of non-M70 Winchesters, all but one, pre-64. I just got soured by one POS M70. It is a sound enough design that I had a MRC 1999 built. If they move production to Japan, Belgium or Portugal, and the quality goes up, I would consider a M70 again.

Shitty union workers killed the model 70. Made with shame in the USA.

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
Shitty union workers killed the model 70. Made with shame in the USA.

You can only work with the equipment and constraints that management put you under. Were you there do you really have an understanding of what went on. My opinion is both sides contributed to the mess Winchester got itself into.

quote:

Were you there do you really have an understanding of what went on. My opinion is both sides contributed to the mess Winchester got itself into.

I wonder if any of us really understand the whole picture. We have some fine machinists, lots of ingenuity. Whats the problem? Are the Japanese running sweatshops that we cant abide/compete with?

Ill tell ya'll one thing. I never really thought about it until it happened, but seeing Winchester go belly up left a bad taste in my mouth. They were more than just a gunbuilder, they were an American icon.

I do like the idea of Browning producing some winchesters though, their ties go way back. This wont be the first time that Browning bailed Winchester out.

If Browning begins making them perhaps they will be as good as the Kimbers. On that note why bother, just buy a Kimber.

losing the model 70 was no loss at all ! it never was a really good rifle since ww2.
and their push feed fiasco showed they cared little about the customers.

the "vaunted " 3 position safety is a piece of crap foisted on the buyers by the companies product liability lawyers. what right handed shooter would want such a miserable excuse for a safety ?

you have to go through thumb contortions to get the safety off then cross your hand over the stock to get a shooting grip. a top tang safety --like on a double rifle or the original mauser style safety is much more practical.

maybe browning will bring out a good model 70, but after trying their synthetic stocked 375 with the magazine attached to the floorplate i really doubt it !

hang onto your beloved mod 70, or better yet get a real rifle - an oberndorf mauser

FNH has a Model 70 rifle out since the demise of Winchester. It's called the Patrol Rifle and paterned to be a sniper model. Control feed, 4 groove rifling, all steel trigger guard, redesigned trigger, and a stell scope mount rail atop the receiver. Asked if this was just a few remaining Winchester action and when they are gone is that it? They said no they are continuing manufacturing of the Model 70.

Forget about Winchester and support Kimber - they make a better rifle IMO

my kimber has a rough barrel on the inside, its very patchy and not consistant in color.

is Miroku building those Kimbers in Japan? Is Dakota outsourcing theirs? I thought not, seems like if Winchester doubled the price of the M70 CRF they could have kept making them here. Of course then everyone would have been complaining about the too-high pricing structure. In fifteen years the only volume guns being sold in America will be Remington and Winchester made somewhere else. Savage will be THE only boltgun produced here in any numbers. We will all be scrambling for old model 70's or going the custom route.

JMHO

Rich

Idaho - you forget Ruger. Still made here in the USA at a reasonable price.

Then again if someone really wants a M70 they only made like 3 million of them (guessing there) but I don't think I would have to look too far to find one. Heck they are still avail on the shelf in many places NIB.

I read elsewhere that the tooling to build 94's and 70's was being sent to the FN plant in South Carolina.
I would buy a made in the USA model 70 and maybe a made in japan one(if it didnt say as much in plain sight), but I would never buy a Russian model 70.

While waiting for my Lady to shop I read shooting magazines in the grocery store today.

Article in one (forget which one?) said FN was going to manufactor M-70's in 308 win. and I believe in 300 WSM called a Patrol Boat Model, FN said they weren't changing the design but would tighten up tolerances.

Browning still makes the Buckmark pistol in Utah.

quote:

.the "vaunted " 3 position safety is a piece of crap foisted on the buyers by the companies product liability lawyers. what right handed shooter would want such a miserable excuse for a safety ?

Was there such a thing as a "Product liability lawyer" in 1937?

I'm right handed and it never bothered me any.

I'm not interested in buying a Model 70 made anywhere except New Haven, Ct. The Pre'64 Model is my favorite! I've hunted, collected, and shot these fine rifles, and enjoyed evey minute of it. I'm sure many Model 70 folks feel the same way I do.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul from nz:
my kimber has a rough barrel on the inside, its very patchy and not consistant in color.

Gidday Paul,
Hard luck mate, my Kimber is a beaut and shoots as well as it looks.

I'm with oldun on the Kimber rifles. I have two, a .243 Montana and a .300 WSM Classic with the french walnut stock. The .243 generally shoots 1/2" groups, and has taken marmots out to 566 yds. I haven't done load development yet on the .300, but the first bullet/powder combo I have tried produced 1" groups. They look and shoot great. The 3 position saftey is plenty handy for me as well. Paul from nz, send that rifle back, they should make it right.

All I can say is that in my experience Jap Weatherbies rocked. USA made Suck!

So I would buy a jap 70

Well i liked the look of the model 70 shadow elite 375 H&H , i guess this model would have replaced the classic stainless but this model comes with the stainless coated for better protection like the remington 700 XCR

I liked the look of the Shadow Elites in the 2006 Winchester wish book too. When Browning comes out with the new Jap Winchesters, there is no telling what models and/or variations they will be producing. No way of telling right now if the Shadow Elites will ever be produced. I'm not necessarily against a Jap Model 70, and will probably buy a few when they do come out. Heck, dang near everything else is foreign made anymore. If I didn't buy foreign made, I wouldn't be buying much!! Cripes, Wrangler jeans are made in Mexico now, and Wrangler shirts are made in Bangladesh!!!!! My GMC pickup is made in Canadia! But a Model 70 marked like Browning A-Bolts, "Made in Japan / Miroku" does kinda stick in my craw. To add insult to injury, when the new Jap Winchesters do hit the street, my local gun shop will no doubt be trying to sell them for a premium OVER MSRP. They always do this with anything new, it is their business practice. Try to gouge the dudes who want the latest and greatest. Thus, I probably won't buy any Winchesters for a year or so after they do come out.

The quality of Jap M70s will likely be worlds better than what Winchester had been turning out teh last few years of being open......before they closed shop. That is a plus. I just wish American workers would get pride in quality back.

I hope they continue to make Left hand versions. Since Browning has lots of LH options............maybe this will be the case.