Was there really a need for the 6.8 western with the 270 WSM out there? It's like winchester is competing with itself.

It is interesting, isn't it?

Technically one cartridge could do what the other does IF the twists and weights were the same.

The 270 WSM could accurately shoot the 165-180 class bullets with a faster twist.

Too difficult to have 2 different loads for the 270 WSM, One for a fast twist and one for a slower twist. Guys couldn't keep it straight so they came out with a "different" cartridge for the heavy weights.

Not sure if you asked for all that or not but you got it when a simple "no" would have worked, haha

Zeke

I’ll just say that I had a 270 WSM and liked it a lot. Was a custom R700 built by Jim Kobe. Killed a Dall sheep and mountain caribou with it. Since Im not into heavy for caliber bullets, I’ll stay with the WSM.

Well...is there really a need for anything other than a .30-06 or a .338 Win Mag or a .375 H&H??

I mean what can't you kill with any of those cartridges at any reasonable range? For more than 50 years the 30-06 was the king of 1,000 yard competitions!

I am a fan of the .270 wsm having used it for Deer and Elk for years. With four Model 70 Winchesters that myself, son and grandsons shoot they serve us well. loads range from 130 grain Northfork at 3450 fps, 140 grain Barnes tsx at 3300 fps and 160 grain Nosler Partition at 3200 fps they cover a lot of ground. I have no desire to shoot any heaavier bullets through them, for those I have a 7mm stw or .300 winny. Our rifles each has it's own personality ranging 50 to 150 fps different depending on loads and barrels. I also have enough brass, bullets and powder to last two lifetimes for my great grandsons. When the new stuff comes out and the reloader has to start all over with components at todays prices it matters to those that shoot extensively with a big family that hunts. The 6.8 is a fine round but for me and mine the .270 wsm is what we will shoot at game from Elk down. For what it is worth this I think about when the new super chambering comes along. Started with the 6.5 prc when it came along and got educated as to todays prices for anything new in a hurry. Good Shooting.

I see 6.8 Western ammo on shelves everywhere but have yet so see a rifle at a retailer anywhere.

The whole thing seems like a lengthy and expensive marketing ploy which will dooms both from the start.

Put a 8 twist barrel on a 270 WSM and/or 270 Win and you have an instantly obsolete new 6.8 Western.

With the new military 6.8mm 270s may be very popular.

I've used the 270 WSM for tahr in NZ and the Remington factory ammo was impressively hot. Looking at reloading tables, though, I can't see much advantage over the 270 Win.

quote:

Originally posted by KY Nimrod:
Well...is there really a need for anything other than a .30-06 or a .338 Win Mag or a .375 H&H??

I mean what can't you kill with any of those cartridges at any reasonable range? For more than 50 years the 30-06 was the king of 1,000 yard competitions!

Respectfully Mr KY,

Certainly use what you want and I'll use what's BEST suited for my application.

I know retro is cool but do we need to have the "higher velocity, better BC, honing your craft" discussion again?

My '55 F-100 truck is cool and works fine up to about 60 MPH but it's nothing like my '21 F-350.

Zeke

Let us be scientific. We are supposed to be sophisticaed.

What is the water capacity of these three cartridges say to the base of their respective necks? That is the BIG question.

As nonidiots let's assume that we will use a barrel length approriate to the case capacity, and the bore diameter. Let us use grains of water say to the base of the neck. These are the things that determine the value of a cartridge.

By the way: My 270 Win is a early post war Model 70 inherited from my father with a 24 inch barrel. How will the new rounds compare, and how do I still stack up?

Long time reloaders understand the the manuals are just guides for safe loading for the weakest rifles that might be used. I can get 3450 fps from my .270 wsm's with a 130 grain Northfork bullet. I cannot get that speed from other bullets the best 50 to 100 fps slower. That cannot be achieved with a .270 win. I can get 3200 fps with a 160 grain Nosler Partition that cannot happen with the .270 Win. I never owned a .270 Win but loaded many rounds for a hunting buddy therefore I know what it will do and it too will exceed the book loads. ----- The water capacity in grains according to the experts is .270 Win 67.4 grains, .270 WSM 78.9 grains, .270 Weatherby 85.3 grains. Obviously the two later chamberings can do loads the Win cannot. If some here want to say the WSM does not do what it was designed to do that is ok by me but I know the score after shooting and loading for it for many years. Their super accuracy for me is another reason to shoot them. Good Shooting.

Your water capacity argument certainly sounds reasonable, phurley, though I have heard of calibres that don't show much justification for theirs. That manuals might have regard for old or weak rifles makes sense in cases like the 8x57 but surely all 270WSMs are of recent manufacture and should be expected to be strong.

I must agree that it it seems pretty accurate, though, at least in my humble Tikka.

I want to say I have great respect and love for the .270 Win and always have. It’s record is stellar and cannot be lessened by any later chambering. I loaded my buddies for many years and I am well aware of it’s merits. My progression in hunting rifles was 30-30 Win, .308 Win and when and opportunity to hunt Elk came along the .300 Win Mag. When the .270 WSM came out I just had to try it. Then my pastel of grandsons shot it and fell in love with it’s flat shooting capabilities on our bean field Whitetails that stretch those barrels. We now shot four of them and all the grandsons buddies also shoot them with my reloads even reaching in to the Elk fields with a great 160 Nosler Partition load that is very deadly and efficient. For us the .270 WSM is special and I just want it to be given it’s due respect. Good Shooting.

I shoot a 7 WSM and it will push 180 grain Bergers to near 3000 fps. It died a quick death as I think this caliber will too.

quote:

Originally posted by JonP:
I shoot a 7 WSM and it will push 180 grain Bergers to near 3000 fps. It died a quick death as I think this caliber will too.

I have a 270 Weatherby Mark V I picked up used a few years go. I think the cartridge was designed in 1945? I still liked my 270 better, but alas gave it to my youngest.

IMHO the 270 WCF is still king of the road, no particular need for the other calibers..If one thinks they need more than a standard 270, I suspect they would be better off with a 300 H&H, 300 win mag, or better yet a .338 win. Just my two bits..

JMHO...but to truly shine, all WSM need more freebore, especially for heavier bullets and monos.

The real question was the .270 WSM when the .270 Win was doing it all for nigh on a century.

Without new cartridges, debates would be boring.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
IMHO the 270 WCF is still king of the road, no particular need for the other calibers..If one thinks they need more than a standard 270, I suspect they would be better off with a 300 H&H, 300 win mag, or better yet a .338 win. Just my two bits..

^^^This^^^

I have chrono'd 150 grain Partitions out of my 22" barreled .270 Win at 3000 FPS. I've retired my 7MM Rem Mag as my primary elk rifle. My .270 Win does it all.

quote:

Originally posted by phurley5:
Long time reloaders understand the the manuals are just guides for safe loading for the weakest rifles that might be used. I can get 3450 fps from my .270 wsm's with a 130 grain Northfork bullet. I cannot get that speed from other bullets the best 50 to 100 fps slower. That cannot be achieved with a .270 win. I can get 3200 fps with a 160 grain Nosler Partition that cannot happen with the .270 Win. I never owned a .270 Win but loaded many rounds for a hunting buddy therefore I know what it will do and it too will exceed the book loads. ----- The water capacity in grains according to the experts is .270 Win 67.4 grains, .270 WSM 78.9 grains, .270 Weatherby 85.3 grains. Obviously the two later chamberings can do loads the Win cannot. If some here want to say the WSM does not do what it was designed to do that is ok by me but I know the score after shooting and loading for it for many years. Their super accuracy for me is another reason to shoot them. Good Shooting.

damn, I didn't know it was possible to get 3200 w/a 160 out of the WSM; I shoot a .270 Wby, factory loads, one of my hunting buddies' shoots the WSM and swears by it ...

I loaded my buddies .270 Win for years and was always impressed with his shooting with a 130 grain bullet at 3100 fps. When the WSM came out I just had to play with it. I bought a Model 70 Winchester stainless all weather and started a love affair. My hunting grandsons soon all wanted to shoot mine so long story short we ended up with three more. I can get 3450 fps with the 130 grain Northfork bullet, all other bullets within 50 to 100 fps less. And yes I got 3228 fps out of the 160 grain Nosler Partition that gave me a 1.5 inch group and was a little hot. I backed off and got .5 in accuracy at 3000 fps and that is my go to load for that bullet. I really wanted to use that bullet because I managed to buy 20 box’s first run bullets and already had 15 box’s blems all bought from Noslers Pro Shop. We use it for cow Elk. Magpro is my powder of choice for the WSM’s. This is how we do it for what it is worth. Good Shooting.

Phurley -

I was intrigued w/the .270 Wby since childhood, bought one about 20 years ago and have had one ever since; mule deer, whitetails, elk, antelope and pigs, 130's - 150's, it doesn't matter, love that caliber ... the 270 WSM is the only one I've ever contemplated buying, just haven't done it yet ... Best to you

I have a as new m70 in 270wsm and 325wsm if anyone interested. Too many guns and will never use.

What maximum point blank range (MPBR) does the .270 WSM have over the .270 Win? Maybe 7 yards?

How boy the .270 Wby Mag vis-a-vis the .270 Win? Maybe 10 yards?

I have no clue of what the 6.8 is, but I doubt it offers any advantage over the .270 Win.

Does anyone really believe that a .300 RUM will kill big game deader than an '06/.308 Win?

Like it or not, long range hunting (more like guys having a set up they THINK they can shoot long range with) is not going away. The 6.5 CM has fueled an obsession with very high BC bullets. To shoot those best, you need fast twists. You can't just "un-SAAMI" a cartridge and retool an existing round for the commercial masses that'll work with the high BC stuff when millions of rifles airway exist that aren't aet up for it.

The 6.8 case 3's slightly modified, again, to work with what's the hot ticket, long bullets seated out far that'll still fit in the standard mag.

I like the concept, heavier bullets than a 6.5, a bit less recoil and better velocity than similar case sized 7's. Not to mention the .270 is deeply rooted to Winchester, just made sense if they just had to dip their toes in the new long range cartridge market.

quote:

Originally posted by 376 steyr:
Was there really a need for the 6.8 western with the 270 WSM out there? It's like winchester is competing with itself.

I have read the articles, and the primary need for the 6.8 Western is to increase the profits of the ammunition and firearms makers.

The in print claims, for shots at distances, like 1500 yards, are only for day dreamers who think they have a chance of hitting something at those distances.

After making the case for 800 yard shots, in one article, all the Winchester factory participants got their game within 500 yards. Which is well within 270 Win range.

There are well over 900 cartridges in the book "Cartridges of the World". Make a convincing case that there are significant differences between the two cartridges, on any one page.

If it interests or inspires new shooters, I am all for it.
Needed, probably not, definitely not by me. Hell, it took me decades to buy a 270 WSM and a 270 Winchester. Both are fine cartridges, but I prefer 7mm’s in this class of cartridge.

I am not a long range shooter so bullets with a meager b.c. of .400 to .450 work for very well for me.
I do know of one person that ordered a 6.8 Western. The long range range ability of cartridges definitely has an allure for quite a few people. Where they will actually put the cartridge’s ability to use or not is a different story. Similar to people humping a 13 pound rifle for 200 yard shots.

It does seem the long range cartridge market is getting pretty saturated. The .277 may have a tough time competing against the established diameters. I guess that will depend on their marketing abilities.

quote:

Originally posted by 376 steyr:
Was there really a need for the 6.8 western with the 270 WSM out there? It's like winchester is competing with itself.

1x1=1 but I'll take the 270 any day, the 6.8 is dead on arrival, its a failure and its author should be gilflurted and stringhaultered!!

The 270 WSM is just an example of planned obsolesce, and the 6.8 Western will prove the same.

One of the claims the in print shills made, was that the 270 Win would not shoot straight, because the throat is too big. And, industry could not tighten the throat, because big, bad, evil SAAMMI would not let them. That is hogwash, SAAMMI standards do not have the force of law, the whole thing is a voluntary organization.

I have a 270 Win barrel cut with a match reamer, and it shoots great out to 600 yards. And I don't believe in shooting at any animal past 300 yards, the probability of not hitting a vital spot is too great. The distances claimed for the 270 WSM and 6.8 Western are way beyond ethical for game hunting, never mind recovering the animal if it is killed. I have never been able to walk a straight line, in natural terrain, for a thousand plus yards, and finding one tiny spot thousands of yard away is pretty darn hard, because everything looks different as you get wander, get turned around, circle around obstacles trying to get close.

The 270 WSM is an example of planned obsolescence. I believe the differences between the 270 WSM and 6.8 Western were put there so you had to buy a new rifle, new brass, new dies, new etc, etc. And I am certain, there will be a cartridge, very similar to the 6.8 Western within a couple of years, but designed to make you buy the whole kit and caboodle all over again.

If you buy the 6.8 Western, buy a lifetime supply of brass. Like ammo cans of the stuff, for these once these boutique cartridges wither and wane, brass will be impossible to find.

Long live the 270 Win!

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
Like it or not, long range hunting (more like guys having a set up they THINK they can shoot long range with) is not going away. The 6.5 CM has fueled an obsession with very high BC bullets. To shoot those best, you need fast twists. You can't just "un-SAAMI" a cartridge and retool an existing round for the commercial masses that'll work with the high BC stuff when millions of rifles airway exist that aren't aet up for it.

The 6.8 case 3's slightly modified, again, to work with what's the hot ticket, long bullets seated out far that'll still fit in the standard mag.

I like the concept, heavier bullets than a 6.5, a bit less recoil and better velocity than similar case sized 7's. Not to mention the .270 is deeply rooted to Winchester, just made sense if they just had to dip their toes in the new long range cartridge market.

They are re-inventing the wheel to market rifles plain and simple. They could simply use something like an ELD or Sierra TGK in an existing 270 WSM and achieve the same thing. But that wouldnt sell any new rifles, would it? So they take a path that is going to drive the WSM, their own Frankencartridge into obsolescence. I dont know about you, but if I owned a WSM I would be a little upset about the fact that Winchester themselves are pushing for the obsolescence of THEIR OWN CARTRIDGE that was sold as the latest and greatest not that long ago. The 6.8 Western may do a lot of things, but inspiring confidence in the longevity of their new creations is NOT one of them.

THERE ARE 2 .270S THE STD. AND THE wBY, NO NEED FOR ANY OTHER IN THAT CALIBER/// The .270 Wby is the most overlooked and awesome caliber out there for long range shooting, Ive shot it but never owned one, never killed, but witnessed kills..I'll stickk with a 270 or 06, Im a hunter I like the hunting part that ends with a skilled or more likely a lucky stalk..

From everything I have read about the 6.8 Westerner was it was a slightly improved WSM.

The WSM cartridges are built on short action rifles and therefore suffer when one wants to use VLD bullets. They shortened the case a bit and also installed a faster twist barrel that will stabilize the heavy VLD bullets. The shorter case allows you to seat the bullets out a bit more so the long bullet doesn't intrude into case. Kind of how the 6.5 Creed vs the 260 Rem.

I have a Tikka rifle with a lousy shooting 7mm Mag barrel. I can get one factory load to shoot acceptable from it and one hand load to shoot acceptable through it. Neither load is acceptable for me to shoot anything other than deer sized game. I ordered a 270 WSM barrel that has a 1:8 twist and will install it on the action as soon as I can pull the old barrel off. Since Tikka has only one size action and uses different bolt stops I can seat the longer bullets out to where I can take advantage of the cartridge. I am more interested in shooting at paper and steel at longer distances than I am at game animals. On another forum there are guys who have done similar and are shooting the 170gr Berger over 3000fps and shooting some very long distances.

Now for hunting I have a 270WCF that will handle all the game animals I will be shooting around where I hunt if that happens to be the rifle I choose to use. If I want to use the WSM for hunting I would have the utmost confidence in it's ability to cleanly take game at my maximum self imposed distances that I would shoot on live game animals.

i can't wait for the 6.5 westerner to come out.
these threads will be something bordering on the epic of all epicness.

I have a .270 WSM in a Sako M85 Bavarian that I like a great deal. It is accurate and does well on game. I mainly use the 140 gr. Nosler partition bullet. The brass is fairly heavy and lasts a long time. It shoots the same bullets as my .270 Win. about 100-150 fps faster. There is nothing magic about the .270 WSM. It won't do much that a standard .270 Win. can't do. I just like it.

I also enjoy my 7x64 Breneke. There was no real reason for Remington to make the .280 Rem. when they could just chamber the 7x64. Lots of people like the 6.5 Creedmore but it will not do anything the 6.5 x 55 or .260 Rem. will do. Me shooting a 7x64 and someone else using a .280 have no effect one each other. I don't see any point in criticizing a cartridge that another shooter likes. Just use what works for you and makes you happy. Be thankful we live in a country where we have freedom to choose.

I prefer 7mm because there's a better selection of good bullets. The 7mm WSM is pretty much the ballistic optimum with the limitation of a short action. To use the latest long pointy high BC bullets in a magazine, I've had good luck with the 7mm WSSM.

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