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I agree, a blood trail is a must and heavy bullets normally do just that..My mild 25-35 with a 117 gr long bullet at 2300 FPS or factory ammmo will penetrate a deer from almost any angle and most evertime. Long slow bullet with lots of lead exposed at slow velocity equals penetration in a lot of calibers, I also believe that 2400 fps or 2800 FPS in the calibers I shoot are the magic numbers, always seem to work..Speaking for myself, to each his own.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Thinking of the ant-for-Christmas-dinner joke, Ray, I've even had great penetration from a .22LR bullet that went in a fox's chest and came out the other end. It was, as you'd expect, a solid - but no follow-up was needed. | |||
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Yes sir, and Ive killed quite a few Mule deer in Mexico on a ranch dad leased, we had to feed a fencing crew of 20 men on the 50,000 acre ranch We fed them with a 22 LR both solids and HP, couldn't tell much difference but I liked the HP for no special reason, and I was about 13 or 14. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Is the rifling twist even going to suit the lighter bullets? Cases and projectiles have evolved to suit each other. Trying to make a light bullet fly well from a barrel suited to a chuck o' lead might get velocity but would it be at the expense of accuracy? | |||
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Angus, you are mostly correct but not always so, only the benchrest rules on that, ya gota give em a try... but from a logical point, this thread is a matter of common logic as about any bullet will kill if placed in the right spot. but what in the world we have to make conversation with on AR!! Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Though exactly matched rifling should give the finest accuracy with lighter bullets (something Remington used to the benefit of target shooters at the cost of hunters), if bullets are concentric overstabilising should be less a problem than understabilising. | |||
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Factory rifles usually have a rate of twist that will adequately stabilize a variety of bullet lengths most common for a particular cartridge. My Tikka T3 shoots the 232 Oryx into sub-moa, the same as a 320gr Woodleigh PP, and all in between except it hates the 270 Speer. So we still don't know as much as we think we do, or would like to, regarding the accuracy of particular rifles. Bob www.bigbores.ca "Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT) | |||
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I have a Merkel Helix in 9.3x62 and have normally run it with 286 partitions. Accuracy isn’t an issue (decidedly sub MOA)…and maxed out with some Big Game it actually will deliver 2,550 fps (*although with fairness, what it does to brass is pretty tragic). I prefer to practice around 2400 fps though. I used that 286 NP on a North American bison…that bullet punched through both sides as if nothing was remotely there. A second shot sped up the process but really wasn’t necessary. Regardless, I’ve been thinking of going lighter and have stockpiled quite a few 250 gr. AB’s and E-Tips but haven’t gotten around to developing a load. 250gr. Seems to be about the lightest I can find here in the States. I’d go lighter if I could find them at the right price. Regards, Robert ****************************** H4350! It stays crunchy in milk longer! | |||
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Hawk Bullets in NJ has 235s they weren't horribly expensive. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Thanks Mike! Regards, Robert ****************************** H4350! It stays crunchy in milk longer! | |||
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RAte of twist is a double edged sword and mistunderstood by many as to accuracy..I have seen too many comments on you cannot shoot heavy bullet in the wrong twist or visa versa..hogwash in many cases....the loop hole is from benchresters and being applied to hunting rifle..example is my 6x45 shoots .280 av with sierras and barnes X, my deer bullet shoots 1,5" groups, my 222 sako shoots 45 gr. sierras under an inch and 60 gr bx at 3"s, its my deer load and the deer is a bigger target, Its just not that big a deal and yes the Barnes won't stabilize but who cares when you shooting a 12 inch live target. JUst saying... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Yes, strange things can happen. Since their fire, Woodleigh bullets have become hard to find, so, for some perverse reason I grabbed some 180gr PPs to try in my Tikka 270WSM. I found they yawed a bit at 25 and 50 yards but grouped well at 100 and were still grouping (end-on) at 300. The only problem I can see is that 25 and 50-yard shots are more common in our bush and I worry that a yawing bullet may not penetrate in a straight line. | |||
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A yaw aint all that bad at 25 to 50 yards on live game..shot too many yawing 30-06 military ammo when ammo was impossible to come by in WW2, some drilled and others were a buzz saw, but they killed. Improved our tracking skills on ocassion..ground the points off and not much changed, some rifles grouped 2" and others grouped 6 inches or more, but still worked.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I don't think a 30-30 at 200 yards is borderline, about like a 30-06 at 300 yards give or take and 200 yards is an easy shot on big lungs..Ive seen many elk killed with the 30-30 carbines by my family, all one shot kills as I recall. Its what everyone used back than, Lots of ranch kids used the 25-35 because the adults figured a 30-30 or 300 savage kicked to much and the 300 savage ruined to much meat, a different time and place and I miss those days. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I agree two holes is twice as good! Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I was going to post something-----BUT I'd better not!  Hip | |||
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Hipshoot, Good thanking Im thanking!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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