I am waiting delivery of a ss #3 Lilja barrel to install on my son's new Win 70. Since it will need to be chambered I might as well explore some options.
Would you pick any of the wildcat 06 versions over the standard ones? If so, why?
We will most likely have a finished barrel length of 22-24 inches.

quote:

Would you pick any of the wildcat 06 versions over the standard ones?

As in A.I. type versions?

No.

I've got a few friends that did it. No appreciable gain, especially for the extra hassle (fireforming brass) and expense (dies). They've all said they'd not do it again.

Some A.I. type stuff may be worth it, but the 30-06 isn't one of them...

BTW, Steelers fan huh? Way to go! I just moved back to western PA. My wife can't get over the football mania here. EVERYONE has a hat/shirt/jacket/bumper sticker/flag/something.

quote:

Would you pick any of the wildcat 06 versions over the standard ones

Nope I would leave it as a standard 30-06. If you are going to handload you can pick up about 75-85% of the potential gain by simply loading to the higher pressures used by the wildcats. The 30-06 is only loaded to 60,000 while the 270 is loaded to 65,000. There is no reason not to load the 06 to the same pressure limit.

Thanks guys. That is what I needed to hear. Cold bore, I was originally from a small town in western Pa, called Scottdale. Where are you from?

Snowwolf..You might try the 36/06..I've had good luck with mine.

One more thought. Take out the mag block, move the bolt stop back and make it a long loaded Gibbs. Some serious gains but a bit of a pain. Actually just neck down some whelen brass fire once and your good to go.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

Would you pick any of the wildcat 06 versions over the standard ones

Nope I would leave it as a standard 30-06. If you are going to handload you can pick up about 75-85% of the potential gain by simply loading to the higher pressures used by the wildcats. The 30-06 is only loaded to 60,000 while the 270 is loaded to 65,000. There is no reason not to load the 06 to the same pressure limit.

Well said. The standard .30-06 is as good as it's going to get without going to a magnum case. Handloading prudently is going to get you all that any of the AI variations will offer.

I'd agree with the others, standard 30-06.

Talk to your smith and make sure that the chamber is "short" enough to permit seating a bullet in the rifling and have the cartridge fit in the magazine. I find that in some of my rifles, the chambers have enough "freebore" that a cartridge in which the bullet will seat in the rifling (or very close), is actually too long to be loaded into the magazine.

Remember that an extra two inches will add at least 50fps to your load. Most magnums are made with 24" barrels. If you go with a stock 30-06 in a 24" tube, you should be able to get 2800fps with 180gr bullets from a stock -06, and 2700fps with 190gr bullets. This is the easy way to get a bit more performance. A 26" tube is doable, but for where you live, I think you'd like a 24" better.

While you can get almost the same velocities from a 190gr 308 bullet in a 30-06 as you can a 180gr bullet, in bear country, you might want to use the 200 grain bullet. You will loose some velocity and some range, but in timber that should not be an issue. The 220 grain bullet would be hard to push faster than 2400fps, and a 200gr Barnes or Partition would probably be a better choice at 2600fps. Kudude

I agree with the others in that a SAAMI standard chamber is best. I see no real need to throat for 220s and 250s in a modern 30-06, and believe these bullets are best used in iron sighted wonders from yesteryear, or as short range thumpers in a brush gun.

quote:

Cold bore, I was originally from a small town in western Pa, called Scottdale. Where are you from?

Snowwolfe-

Check your PMs...

What you gonna hunt ?
If the 06 ain't nough gun get somthing bigger. If you do decide to AI, don't cut the barrel off at 22 or it,s a waste of time...tj3006

in you want a 300 mag, go get one.

IMO, the only improvement over the 30-06 is the .338 win mag. The only improvement over the .338 is the .375 H&H mag, and the only improvement over the .375 H&H is the .458 win mag. That being said, you would spend a lot on brass and dies if you went to the 30-06 improved, and lose the ability to shoot factory brass through in the rare event your airline loses youe ammo (new stat, airlines lose 10000 bags a DAY!!!!). Have fun putting everything together!!

John

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:
IMO, the only improvement over the 30-06 is the .338 win mag. The only improvement over the .338 is the .375 H&H mag, and the only improvement over the .375 H&H is the .458 win mag. That being said, you would spend a lot on brass and dies if you went to the 30-06 improved, and lose the ability to shoot factory brass through in the rare event your airline loses youe ammo (new stat, airlines lose 10000 bags a DAY!!!!). Have fun putting everything together!!

John

No the 30-06AI will shoot factory ammo, infact that's how you make 30-06AI brass...

As for the other statement? The only improvement
over a 375H&H is a 458WinMag?

Substitute 416Rigby or 416Remington and I'll agree, because other than a 45-70 Marlin the 458Winchester is the weakest of the 458's, though frequently the most powerful that most people can control.

as for the usual comment that flying and losing your ammo would leav you stuck... I've never lost ammo on an airplane.
Then again I've never carried a rifle with ammo on an airplane.
the only ammo I've ever carried was some ammo I found a bargain on in Florida and brought back with me in my checked baggage, but that was pre-9/11 (by almost exactly a decade)

AllanD

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:

No the 30-06AI will shoot factory ammo, infact that's how you make 30-06AI brass...

As for the other statement? The only improvement
over a 375H&H is a 458WinMag?

Substitute 416Rigby or 416Remington and I'll agree, because other than a 45-70 Marlin the 458Winchester is the weakest of the 458's, though frequently the most powerful that most people can control.

as for the usual comment that flying and losing your ammo would leav you stuck... I've never lost ammo on an airplane.
Then again I've never carried a rifle with ammo on an airplane.
the only ammo I've ever carried was some ammo I found a bargain on in Florida and brought back with me in my checked baggage, but that was pre-9/11 (by almost exactly a decade)

AllanD

I mever had much luck shooting at longer ranges with guns that have had sloppy chambers, I am not sure shooting -06 springfield through a -06 AI would meet with different results.

As for the 416 Rigby or 416 remington, I would agree they are an improvement over a .375. I wouldn't necessarily call them ballistically superior to the 458 win mag, but definately in the same class. I can't think of anything one can kill better than the other.

As for the 458 winchesters being the weakest of the 458's, that is like saying the .375 H&H is the weakest of the of the .375's. True, but it gets the job done. I would much rather see 5 rounds in a 2" circle at 100 yards with a 458 Win rather than someone flinch with a 460 Weatherby, although the latter can be learned to shot well with practice.

As for luggage, perhaps I have travelled more than most, but I have had bags been delayed and misdelivered pre 9/11 and post 9/11. Perhaps being prepared isn't such a bad motto. Again, it depends on where you hunt as well. It is hard to argue with the statistics, 10,000 bags a day is a little disconcerting.

All in all, the improvements of the -06 AI really don't warrant the risks of deviating from a proven cartridge. For the extra recoil of a 300 win mag, you can get a 338 win mag which offers far more over the -06 than the 300 win mag.

John

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:
I mever had much luck shooting at longer ranges with guns that have had sloppy chambers, I am not sure shooting -06 springfield through a -06 AI would meet with different results.

As for the 416 Rigby or 416 remington, I would agree they are an improvement over a .375. I wouldn't necessarily call them ballistically superior to the 458 win mag, but definately in the same class. I can't think of anything one can kill better than the other.

As for the 458 winchesters being the weakest of the 458's, that is like saying the .375 H&H is the weakest of the of the .375's. True, but it gets the job done. I would much rather see 5 rounds in a 2" circle at 100 yards with a 458 Win rather than someone flinch with a 460 Weatherby, although the latter can be learned to shot well with practice.

As for luggage, perhaps I have travelled more than most, but I have had bags been delayed and misdelivered pre 9/11 and post 9/11. Perhaps being prepared isn't such a bad motto. Again, it depends on where you hunt as well. It is hard to argue with the statistics, 10,000 bags a day is a little disconcerting.

All in all, the improvements of the -06 AI really don't warrant the risks of deviating from a proven cartridge. For the extra recoil of a 300 win mag, you can get a 338 win mag which offers far more over the -06 than the 300 win mag.

John

The oint of the "improved" cartridges is that they aren't exactly "sloppy", there is clearance in some areas of the chamber, but those areas are literally filled in in a flash before the bullet even begins to move.
that being said most of the "improvement"
is really via placebo effect.

I'll soon have a 30-06AI, but that's only because a standard 30-06 reamer won't clean
up the shoulder area of a barrel that was previously chambered in 308Win...
I have no issusions about any "improvement other than that I won't have to work so hard to fit more RL22 in the case

I don't want a 300Win Mag what I want is to send 165gr partitions downrange at 3100fps
and that takes ~65grs of RL22 depending on the specific 24" barrel used.
63grs is 105% of case capacity in a standard winchester case it's ~96% capacity in the blown out steep shouldered 30-06AI case.

65gr of RL22 is ~99% of case capacity in an A-I case.
RL22 in a 30-06 case is one of those foolproof combinations, it simply isn't possible to fit too much in the case with a 165gr bullet.

The other thing the 30-06 AI is good at is launching 180gr bullets, how's a published load
(in the Nosler #5 reloading guide) for the A-I
with a 180gr partition @2985fps grab you?

All that being said the process of fireforming brass then reloading it to the higher level is tedious.

I do much the same thing for nomal 30-06sprg hunting loads already, others may not be interested in taking the time... but I also already have a "normal" 30-06... for an "only rifle" or as a "first rifle"?

I agree it's not the best of ideas.

I also agree that if a 30-06 isn't enough a 300WinMag is not the solution, and I really like the 338Mag...

AllanD

I've read some neat stuff about the 338-06.

Odd caliburs in a using rifle are a bad idea. Knew a guy that showed up in hunting camp with some sort of "improved" custom. Somehow he lost his handloaded ammo. He could not go to the nearest store and buy a box and sight in. He had to borrow a rifle. Standard is better.

If standard is better then we should all selll everything we have & just buy a .30-06. I've only flown 4-5 times w/ guns & ammo. I worry more about my rifles not showing than my ammo. Snow, build what makes YOU happy. If it's an AI so be it. I hunt w/ very few "standard" carts. In fact only one a .280.

I have decided on staying with the standard simply because no one could show where an "improved" version offered any real advantages. Thats why I love this forum. It is nice to hear feedback before spending the cash.