Thinking of a 35 WIN in a a lever or single shot. Please share with me your thoughts on this cartridge. I originally was looking at a 35 REM Marlin but I get all the once fired 308 brass I can ask for so I'll save the difference in bras sover time.

I would love a single shot but not sure if I could find one. I know Browning BLR has a few different models offered.

Thanks for the input.

Do you mean .358 Winchester or .375 Winchester.....?

quote:

Originally posted by BISCUT:
Thinking of a 35 WIN in a a lever or single shot. Please share with me your thoughts on this cartridge. I originally was looking at a 35 REM Marlin but I get all the once fired 308 brass I can ask for so I'll save the difference in bras sover time.

I would love a single shot but not sure if I could find one. I know Browning BLR has a few different models offered.

Thanks for the input.

Well.. If going the lever way the .35WC is the only way...If going singleshot the old 400/350Rigby is the only way.

I've got the .358 Winchester in a Savage 99. I love the little cartridge, with its fat bullet. I have magazine length issues so I can't run some of the newer bullets like the Nosler Accubond 225 grain. Trying to get it shoot sub 2" groups has been tough, but when it does hit it hits with athourity.

One of the best deer, boar, bear guns I have ever owned was a Browning BLR in .358 Win. I shot the factory Winchester Silvertips in it, and it just spanked everything. I wish I hadn't sold that gun, along with a few more guns I wish I hadn't sold, like the Ruger 1A in 7x57.

Great caliber the .358 Win, and the BLR is a very nice rifle. I took the polyeurethane off mine and gave it an oil finish. Beautiful.

Mike

You are apparently thinking of the .358 Winchester, not the .35 Winchester.

The .358 Winchester is based on the rimless .308 case, necked up to .35 caliber, and holds 80 grains of water.

The .35 Winchester is a larger capacity RIMMED case (holds 91 grains of water) from around the turn of the 20th Century. I personally much prefer the .35 Winchester, which at one time was available in the Model 95 Winchester lever rifle, and is easily chambered in the 1885 Winchester single shot ("Hi-Wall")as well.

Modern brass for the .35 Winchester can be easily made from either the new Hornady .405 Winchester brass, or from 7x65 brass from makers such as Norma, RWS, etc.

A really nice modern rifle would be a .35 Winchester built on a Ruger No. 1 donor action. Or, if I had a Browning M95, I would also be sorely tempted to rebarrel it to .35 Winchester. With modern steel it would be a really nice "thumper" out to 250 yards or so.

The .358 Winchester is also a good round. I've had a number of rifles chambered in it, and still have a Browning BLR for that cartridge.

In the Browning, I would prefer lighter monometal pointed bullets for the best trajctory at ranges over 200 yards. For close up woods hunting, which is what I've always used mine for, I prefer 250 grain bullets. I have a small hoard of Winchester 250 grain Silvertips, and that's what I still use in it.

Biscut In a strong action the 35 Win could be loaded very close to 35 Whelan ballistics. It would be ideal in a Ruger # 1 or a High wall. I have considered building one on a P14 action but if you go with that big of an action you might as well build a magnum.

quote:

The .358 Winchester is based on the rimless .308 case, necked up to .35 caliber, and holds 80 grains of water.

Whoa pardner, better check on that value. My .308 cases hold about 45 grains of water, not 80. Heck, even a .30-06 only holds around 62 grains of water - both volumes under the base of the average bullet.



.

quote:

Originally posted by TX Nimrod:

quote:

The .358 Winchester is based on the rimless .308 case, necked up to .35 caliber, and holds 80 grains of water.

Whoa pardner, better check on that value. My .308 cases hold about 45 grains of water, not 80. Heck, even a .30-06 only holds around 62 grains of water - both volumes under the base of the average bullet.



.

You could well be right, but I took the figure directly from Ken Howell's book. Of course, I may have mistakenly got the wrong cartridge drawing. Anything is possible.

Personally, I would have guessed something more like 50 -55 or so grains of water, but I KNOW the .358 Winchester case will hold somewhat more than 45 grains of water.

I load 45 grains of RP-3 powder in mine under the 250 grain Silvertips and I am pretty sure the powder is not as dense as water. And, of course the water is filling the case to the top, whereas the powder isn't.

Anyway, I just checked Ken's book "Designing and Forming Custom Cartridges" again, and on page 278 it shows the water capacity of the case full to the top as being 80 grains of water.

Maybe the book is in error on that figure?

Sorry guys, yes it was the 358 Winchester!

For cost and simplicity it will probably be the BLR. I have an 06 and 45/70 Runger #1 but don't want to alter them. Like em jus the way they are.

Thanks for the information.

Biscut Now that you have cleared the air and it is the 358 Win round you are talking about and not the old 35 Win . Before you spend your money on a lever action whether it be the BLR or a Sav 99 (if you can find one)give some consideration to putting a 358 Win barrel on a handy little bolt action. It shouldn't be too hard to find a 243 or 308 bolt action to use as a doner . Depending on which action you use you may end up having a little more magazine length to work with and this will allow you to load longer bullets such as the Nosler 225 gr as well as seating the 250 gr bullets out a little further. You could end up with a reasonably priced little thumper.

quote:

Originally posted by snowman:
Biscut Now that you have cleared the air and it is the 358 Win round you are talking about and not the old 35 Win . Before you spend your money on a lever action whether it be the BLR or a Sav 99 (if you can find one)give some consideration to putting a 358 Win barrel on a handy little bolt action. It shouldn't be too hard to find a 243 or 308 bolt action to use as a doner . Depending on which action you use you may end up having a little more magazine length to work with and this will allow you to load longer bullets such as the Nosler 225 gr as well as seating the 250 gr bullets out a little further. You could end up with a reasonably priced little thumper.

This is the route I would probably take. I love the Savage 99 (and have one in .308 that I'd never part with), but for the type of use a .358 would see in my hands, the cost of a 99 so chambered is prohibitive.

If you go the bolt route, you could use a Savage bolt action and do the conversion yourself since all it requires is a set of go/no go gauges, a barrel vise and a barrel nut wrench (all available from Brownells).

It is a great short range killer..I have used one in a Savage 99F and the BLR a little and I like it..but actually I prefer the .308 Win. in both guns.They kill just as well and give me a trajectory advantage. I prefer the Savage 99F (1950) in either caliber.

quote:

You could well be right, but I took the figure directly from Ken Howell's book. Of course, I may have mistakenly got the wrong cartridge drawing. Anything is possible.

I have a copy of the book you're referring to... it uses a comparison of the weight of water in grains that a solid brass dimensioned model of the case would displace". This allows cases to be compared on a general basis but ignores the case head, thicker/thinner case walls, belted case, etc that can make its numbers vary from the commonly used displacement model.

I have a Savage M99 Lightweight that would have been a great 358... not that there's anything wrong with its 308 caliber.


Mat

Thanks for the clarification.

The weight shown didn't make good sense to me, but I am not currently in a position to weigh the content myself as my new shop is still stacked full of stuff everywhere.

Anyway, the difference shown is 90.1 grains vs. 80.0 grains, so the % difference is easily calculated, which was my initial
intent.

The 35 Winchester is 12.6% larger, as measured using the weight of water as a handy comparative image. Not huge, but useful sometimes when using heavy bullets. Would allow a person to use something approximating that much more % of a slower burning powder, though most powders aren't as dense as water.

Nothing in life is quite that simple, so a person would still have to work up loads to see exactly what he and his rifle could produce, but he would have more powder space to work with and in modern brass, it could (might?) be very useful. I know I have tried both chamberings, and I prefer the .35 Winchester somewhat. BUT, there is nothing wrong with the .358 Winchester either.

Graum -

Your Savage would still make a great .358, though it might not be great enough to make the cost & effort worthwhile for you.

One of the fellows at our range back in Oregon has a M99 originally chambered in .358, and I tried to talk him out of it several times. Unfortunately for me, he liked it just as much as I did. No deal.

They also made some in .284 Winchester, another version I'd like to have but don't. Guess I'll just have to be happy with my pore ol' .303 Savage.

BTW, welcome to AR

I have a Savage 99 in .358win if you're interested. PM me and I will give you the details. Just a warning, these guns are real collectors and are expensive. Mike

quote:

I KNOW the .358 Winchester case will hold somewhat more than 45 grains of water.

On page 418 of Ken Water's Pet Loads book he states that the .358 WCF case has a capacity of 45.7 grains of water.


About 15 years ago I saw an very nice M99 in .358WCF for sale at a gun show. It was nickeless plated, had a new stock with a $650 sticker. I often wish I'd bought it....

.

Not sure what the case capacity of a 35 Win is or a 358 Win either, but a 405 Win is about 77 gr and a 308 is about 55gr filled to the top of the case mouth. I like the 350 Rem mag myself.

quote:

Originally posted by TX Nimrod:

quote:

I KNOW the .358 Winchester case will hold somewhat more than 45 grains of water.

On page 418 of Ken Water's Pet Loads book he states that the .358 WCF case has a capacity of 45.7 grains of water.


About 15 years ago I saw an very nice M99 in .358WCF for sale at a gun show. It was nickeless plated, had a new stock with a $650 sticker. I often wish I'd bought it....

.

I think Ken might have been speaking of capacity to the base of the bullet rather than case capacity. As I said, I use 45.0 grains of Gevelot RP-3 below 250 grain Silvertips in my .358 Winchester handloads, and have ever since 1975.

If you are ever in this area, you can come over to my place and we'll pull down some of my loads and you can weigh the powder in there...and there is still room for the bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:
I have a Savage 99 in .358win if you're interested. PM me and I will give you the details. Just a warning, these guns are real collectors and are expensive. Mike

I thank you for the offer, and do genuinely appreciate it, but no thanks.

I pretty much never buy guns that the seller considers a collector's item. My style is more to keep my eyes open at gun shows, in gun stores, pawn shops, at yard sales, and so on. Sooner or later I find something interesting to buy...like maybe 8 or so times a year. It keeps life interesting, and leaves me more money too. That way I usually have enough left to buy with when something I didn't even know I wanted pops up at a good price.

Aw, c'mon, up the ante! Go for a Winchester 88 in .358 Win.

one of the guys in our shop just inherited a really really cherry 95 winchester in 35 win. anybody got any ideas of where he can get brass and/or ammo??

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:
I have a Savage 99 in .358win if you're interested. PM me and I will give you the details. Just a warning, these guns are real collectors and are expensive. Mike

I thank you for the offer, and do genuinely appreciate it, but no thanks.

I pretty much never buy guns that the seller considers a collector's item. My style is more to keep my eyes open at gun shows, in gun stores, pawn shops, at yard sales, and so on. Sooner or later I find something interesting to buy...like maybe 8 or so times a year. It keeps life interesting, and leaves me more money too. That way I usually have enough left to buy with when something I didn't even know I wanted pops up at a good price.

If you find a Savage 99 in .358 at a pawn shop or gun show and the seller doesn't know what they have, you will be the luckiest man alive. Due to the popularity of looking things up on the internet, there's not many deals out there on guns like these.

butchloc, isn't the 35 Win just a necked down 405 WCF?

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:
I have a Savage 99 in .358win if you're interested. PM me and I will give you the details. Just a warning, these guns are real collectors and are expensive. Mike

That may be. But, sometimes it isn't the way it works. My point is, I don't buy to have collector's items. I buy to have interesting ones. If I find two other "interesting" guns for the price of one which has suddenly assume "collector's" sttus, then I am happy. And, ever so often I DO run across the "neveau" collector's stuff at quite reasonable prices.


I thank you for the offer, and do genuinely appreciate it, but no thanks.

I pretty much never buy guns that the seller considers a collector's item. My style is more to keep my eyes open at gun shows, in gun stores, pawn shops, at yard sales, and so on. Sooner or later I find something interesting to buy...like maybe 8 or so times a year. It keeps life interesting, and leaves me more money too. That way I usually have enough left to buy with when something I didn't even know I wanted pops up at a good price.

If you find a Savage 99 in .358 at a pawn shop or gun show and the seller doesn't know what they have, you will be the luckiest man alive. Due to the popularity of looking things up on the internet, there's not many deals out there on guns like these.

Maybe, maybe not.

If you read my post carefully, you would see that I don't limit myself to just pawn shops.

More importantly, I don't buy ANY rifle or other gun just because it has suddenly acquired nuveau "collector's" status, nor do I ever buy from anyone who is convinced his rifle is a collector's piece.

I buy "Interesting to me" guns or accoutrements. I keep money in my pocket and my eyes wide open for guns wherever I go. Opportunity strikes surprisingly often to make a good deal. If I can buy two or even three of those "interesting" guns for what someone wants for his "collector's item", I am perfectly happy to live life that way. And often within 5 to 10 years the ones I bought because they were interesting ARE "collector's items" to some folks all of a sudden.

An example. Because I have a lot of rifles, until a year or so ago, I used to take two or three different ones to the range every Sunday of the year, just to give them a few rounds down their tubes and enjoy them.

One sunday about two years ago a guy who occasionally shot at the range showed up with a Winchester M71 .348 and approached me. He said that he had noticed I liked older guns and he had seen me with a lot of those which weren't "commonly used" anymore. He also had noticed that once in a while I bought a gun at the range. So, he wondered if I might be interested in buying his? I looked it over and it was in very nice condition, though obviously had been carried a bit at sometime in its existance. When asked about its history, he said it had been in his family for 60 or so years, but that he didn't need it, so he thought he might sell it to someone who might appreciate it.

So, I asked him what he wanted for it. He sorta shuffled his feet and said, rather hesitatingly that he had hoped he might be able to get $600 or $700 for it. Obviously, he thought that was high, but he was hoping....

So, I looked it over again and it was truly in nice shape for a "working" gun. So, I told him it was certainly worth $700 to me and that I was willing to pay that if he was willing to sell for that. He was obviously tickled and said "Great, let's do it." I had the cash in my wallet in $100 bills, so I counted 7 of them out on the table, he wrote and signed a bill of sale, and the deal was done.

Do I think I could go out and on demand buy another nice M71 for $700 today? No, but I don't need to.

Opportunities arise to buy nice guns very frequently. I don't need to buy what others consider "collector's items". I just keep my eyes open for interesting guns, and carry plenty of cash when I have any to spend on such discretionary items.

That's one of the advantages of bing a dedicated "Accumulator of Interesting Guns". Not being a dedicated "Collector" of any particular brand or type leaves me the freedom (and money) to pass on what I consider perhaps overly high priced "collector's" stuff and to buy what I think is fairly priced "interesting" stuff.

Take care,

AC

ruger makes it's hawkeye in 358 win.
if i just wanted a 358 i'd simply have a 308 re-bored and re-chambered.

The .35 Winchester is an obsolete cartridge. It was chambered in the Winchester Model 1895 and the Remington-Lee bolt action. It is the .30 Newton case necked up to .35 caliber.
It would be a good number to use in a good single shot action. Brass would be expensive and hard to find. Would be a fine cartridge, good for all European and North American Game.
NEAT CARTRIDGE!!!

quote:

Originally posted:
The .35 Winchester is an obsolete cartridge. It was chambered in the Winchester Model 1895 and the Remington-Lee bolt action. It is the .30 Newton case necked up to .35 caliber.

Isn't the .30 Newton a rimless case? And isn't the .35 Winchester a rimmed case? And lastly, didn't the .35 Winchester come out before the .30 Newton?

Yes, they are rimmless of the two. But,try to find them, especially in my neck of the woods.
I have a whole carton of .35 Winchester in my collection from 1906. One would never be prudent to shoot any of them. One could probley form them, machine and make them work.
Finding i the difficulty. One time, the .35Winchester was popular in Sweden. Especialy he 1895 Winchester for a time.

quote:

Originally posted by ldkier:
Yes, they are rimmless of the two. But,try to find them, especially in my neck of the woods.
I have a whole carton of .35 Winchester in my collection from 1906. One would never be prudent to shoot any of them. One could probley form them, machine and make them work.
Finding i the difficulty. One time, the .35Winchester was popular in Sweden. Especialy he 1895 Winchester for a time.

Sorry, but I am not following what you are trying to say at all. I was commenting on your statement that the .35 Winchester was basically the .30 Newton case necked up to .35 calibre.

Quote "Originally posted:
The .35 Winchester is an obsolete cartridge. It was chambered in the Winchester Model 1895 and the Remington-Lee bolt action. It is the .30 Newton case necked up to .35 caliber."

Well, the .35 Winchester is not basically the Newton case necked up, so far as I understand it at this time. The Winchester is a rimmed case, the Newton is rimless. The Winchester cartridge I believe was invented before the Newton round was.

What the availability of either round in currently loaded form in either Sweden or here has to do with anything, is beyond my ken so far. .35 Winchester brass is easily formed from Hornady .405 Winchester brass, OR any European 7x65R brass.

But it is NOT a "necked uyp to .35" Newton, or derived from it.

The Newton head diameter, for instance, is .520". The Winchester .461" The Newton is rimless. The Winchester is rimmed. The Newton shoulder diameter is .498". The Winchester .428". The .35 Newton case holds 92.56 grains of water (according to Donnelly's Manual of Cartridge Conversions), while the Winchester holds 68.74 grains.

It is a handloader's cartridge, but certainly not a difficult one for any handloader to come by these days.

Here's a couple of dimensions:

Thanks Smokin Joe. That drawing matches the dimensions I listed exactly.

While I was looking in Donnely's book, I also looked up the water capacity of the .358 Winchester.

He lists it not at 45 grains, but at 57.56 grains, which is why I can load 45 grains of Gevelot RP-3 powder in mine and still seat my 250 grain bullets to their cannelure.

If you build a 35 Win, design the reamer to use the dimensions of the 405 Win rim, so you can re-form 405 Win brass'

You can probably get ammo/brass from Buffalo Arms. Think a rimmed 35 whelen. If you build it on an action that will take Whelen pressures, the you can exceed Whelen power levels.
I built a 38-72 Win(necked down 405 or necked up 35 Win)utilizing 405 rim. dimensions, on a NEF Handi-rifle. 270gr @2,400 fps was a good load. I did go higher, but no need to abuse the rifle.

I have a Remington Model 600 in .243 that I'm having Dan Pedersen re-bore to .358 Win. Then I'm fitting it with an ultra light stock and planning to use it on a moose hunt next year.

From all my research, the .358 is a great cartridge with handloads that will take anything up to, and including, the great bears.

quote:

Originally posted by GAHUNTER:
I have a Remington Model 600 in .243 that I'm having Dan Pedersen re-bore to .358 Win. Then I'm fitting it with an ultra light stock and planning to use it on a moose hunt next year.

From all my research, the .358 is a great cartridge with handloads that will take anything up to, and including, the great bears.

Nice, handy rifle. Excellent barrel re-borer. Sound cartridge for something limited to that magazine length. Should make into a great, fun, little hunting rifle.