The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Most versatile medium bore caliber?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| one of us |
Neither has jerrbear,but it makes it makes for a nice bullshit post. | |||
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| One of Us |
quote: Flip, what's that cartridge? It sounds like something out of my metric sockets. ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
Well being I have used the .300 Win. Mag for about 12 years I have to say that. However having never shot or hunted with any thing bigger I can't make a true comparison. I have always wanted a .338 Win. mag but felt it was just too much gun for white tails and that is what I hunt. I feel that with the .300 I will never be undergunned for any thing I will ever be able to hunt unless I hit the lottery. ------------------ | |||
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| Moderator |
I don't consider the 30cal as a "medium" bore, but then I don't consider the 375 as a "big bore" either. For me, the most versatile cartridge for NA hunting is my 300Wby. Nothing on this continent it can't handle with ease. | |||
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one of us |
Jacobite, Do you toast to "Him who came over the waters"? By Aim and by effort H.T.R.N. | |||
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| one of us |
High Tech, I am afraid I have never heard that expression. However if you want to know if I would "Fight For Charlie" I hold my broad sword high! ------------------ | |||
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| <cohoyo> |
i'd have to say the 30-06 because you can get ammo anywhere, it's the biggest caliber most people can shoot well and you can get bullets from 55 grain up to 220. | ||
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one of us |
Number one by far, 30-06. Number two, 338 Win Mag. I don't presently own an '06. | |||
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one of us |
First off, the 375 H&H isn't a big bore, the 9.3s, and the 375 H&H are large medium bore chamberings. IMO the mediums start at 270 and go through .375. The 25s, and lower is what I call small bore. Big bores start a .400 caliber. With all that out of the way, what I think you guys are talking about is strictly for North America, and with that in mind, I'm going to have to agree with Allen, the 338 Win Mag comes about as close as you will get to a rifle for everything in N A. Of the WBYs, ULTRAs, and the rest of the so-called "NEW , AND IMPROVED" none will do anything that the plain old 338 Win Mag will not do just as well, with less powder, recoil, and noise, where game is concerened. To me, an almost perfect pair of rifles for N A would be two Mod 70s chambered for 338 Win Mag, and 280 Rem. ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
Well...I am late to reply. Knowing that the .30-06 is a wonderful cartridge, I must admit that the .338WM in Alaska is an outstanding cartridge. My vote goes to the one I use: .338WM. [ 06-02-2002, 10:21: Message edited by: Ray, Alaska ] | |||
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Moderator |
another vote for 358 whatever flavor. It's not a super long range rifle... now, wait a second... here's some DATA fellas the 308 168 match bullet has a vel of about 2500+. my 358 with a 225 gr sierra has a vel of about 2500+. my 358 has a pretty dang high BC according to sierra.... as a matter of fact, out to 500 yards, it's more or less the same as a 308 trajectory. with a 100 yard zero, they are withing 2.5 inches at 500 yards. Just about 1.3 times the retained energy. go figure, as to why the 358 has been labeled short range? i know, because they used heavy round nosed bullets, in short barreled rifles. jeffe oh, yeah, if we leave the way this site defines mediums, I would say a 375, whatever flavor. | |||
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| one of us |
quote:Well, MacD37 stole most my thunder. I think the 338WM and 270 Win is the perfect NA combo. For the non-reloader good ammo for the 270 is easier to come by. | |||
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one of us |
The 7.62 Nato Johan | |||
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| one of us |
The beauty of the .338WM is that you can get it to shoot like a .300WM when lightweight bullets are used (160-225 grains), and with bullets from 230 to 300 grains it will be ballistically close to the .375 H&H. Just think about it: All that power from a case that is not much larger than a .30-06's case. No wonder it is called "The Alaskan." That's what I call a versatile cartridge! [ 06-23-2002, 01:55: Message edited by: Ray, Alaska ] | |||
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| One of Us |
Most respondents are totally overlooking the rules of this quest. We are looking for the most VERSATILE medium bore. Not the most powerful. Not the flattest or fastest but the most versatile. That title IMHO has to go to the all-time king of versatility......the 30/06. I've owned more than I can remember and shot out the barrels on a couple of them and nothing will touch this cartridge for versatility. In the hands of a decent marksman (and properly loaded)it will efficiently and reliably stop and kill anything in this hemisphere and most of what walks and crawls on the other side. Yes, I know...so will the other suggested rifles. But where the 30/06 leaves them at the gate is NOT in its ability to keep UP with bigger rifles, rather in its ability to go the other direction as well. The 30/06 is a fantastic cast bullet rifle. Not only will it handily kill a polar bear but you can load it down where you can kill cottontail rabbits and turkeys and have something left to eat when the smoke clears. I suspect I've taken a 30/06 down the road of "versatility" as far as anyone by hunting with 205 gr SP's and lying in my back yard at home shooting targets with 160 gr cast bullets ahead of 1.5 grs of Bullseye. This load had just enough velocity to stick the bullet 1/4" deep in a wooden "backstop"......but it shot good enough to hunt quail with if a person had to. Probably the closest contender to these capabilities is the .308 Winchester. Now, I invite anyone with any of the fine magnums mentioned above to match this for versatility . My friends, the old /06 wrote the book on versatility. Take that fact to the bank. Unlike a lot of shooters, I've given up trying to dispute or fight this fact. I just give credit where it's due and move on to the next topic. Long live the king! ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| one of us |
Yes, the .30-06 is a great cartridge. But there are not rabbits where I hunt (bear country). So maybe versatility is related to the type of hunting one does. The smallest game I would hunt would be deer, and the larger are moose and bears. | |||
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One of Us |
I'll go with Ray on this one. I hunt elk in grizzly country and find the 338 WM reasuring. It also puts elk down with authority. I don't consider anything in 30 cal a "medium" so they're out in my view. If we use the 30-06 as the "plumb line" by which to compare all other rounds (because it HAS a proven track-record over nearly one century), the 338 WM stacks-up quite nicely. It pushes heavier, larger bullets with nearly identical SD's and BC's as the 06's at nearly identical speeds. The 338 WM doesn't lack velocity, nor does it have too much... it's a VERY nicely balanced cartridge that is a sort of "Super 30-06." BA | |||
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| One of Us |
The dictionary definition of versatile is "capable of doing many things competently". I think the old '06 is quite capable of that. | |||
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| One of Us |
Ray, I hear what you are saying about the .338 in Alaska and were I up there, I'd probably agree with you. But again, if we stick with the topic posed, which was simply the most versatile medium bore, I think the /06 takes the prize. Limiting the discussion to bear country or declaring .30 as not a medium bore is sort of hedging the bet by tossing out the other contenders. This is the same as if some say anthing over .30 caliber is actually BIG BORE and not a contender. OR for another to declare we are talking about the southeast corner of Arizona where the largest animal is a coyote. I view this question as it was offered, medium bore (as defined by the A.R. forum) and MOST VERSATILE. For this, I say the old /06 has it. I have every confidence I could use one to take everything from bobwhite to brown bear. (And eat the bobwhite!) | |||
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| one of us |
quote:Pecos45, Here is another Alaskan that throws the .338 in the hat as most versatile. I hear what you are saying and still haven't been convinced by your arguments. Both rounds shoot at the same basic velocities with similar differences in weight of projectile from smallest offered to largest for each respective piece. I also have confidence in the .338 Win. Mag. from everything from bobwhite to brown bear; however, I know that I am considerably MORE comfortable walking around here with my "Winnie" than I am with my "Aught-six!" I also think that the bobwhite will neither be "more dead" or "less edible" if shot with the .338. I,like you, have an opinion as regards a given asked question. There has been an age-old quest (it seems) for man to attempt to sway others to their own way of thinking by discounting opinions of those whom disagree, for varying reasons. I value your opinion very much. I believe you to be very close to the answer. I only think you are off by 50 or so grains of lead and guilding copper. ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} best, bhtr | |||
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| One of Us |
Well, you .338 boys are pretty set in your ways and since I've never had the pleasure of experimenting with this bore, I'm not going to swear you are all crazy. Our individual bias are probably mostly geographical. Down in Texas and NM, the .338 seems pretty unnecessary. And in big bear country, I'd sleep better at night knowing I had something bigger than even the redoubtable /06. I would like to see you guys throttle back on your .338 loads like I did with my 30/06. This to me is one of the marks of a truly versatile rifle. Like airplanes, a lot of them will fly just fine if you keep the throttle to the wall, but if you back off much, most fall out of the sky and start getting squirrely. For me the /06 is true all the way from "idle to wide open." I've not seen many cartridges that would do this. One thing I'm sure we both agree on is both our pets are winners. ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} Wish I had time and money to come up north and put some of my theories to the test. For now I'll just have to plead insanity. | |||
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| one of us |
Pecos45, "Good form!" best, bhtr ![[Cool]](images/icons/cool.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| <Dice2> |
RAY your correct on the evaluation of the 30-06! It wasn't long ago I remember when that is all most hunters used for everything in the USA. However today is today and yesterday is but a memory to recall. Speaking of the future I will pick up my model 70 Winchester classic and stuff some of those 250 grain Swift A Frames or Noslers in my pocket, that will get it done in spades. | ||
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| Moderator |
For the sake of being redundant... I think that this also takes into account shooting style, and action preference 358 winchester, in my opinion, the most versitle (large) medium. It can toss 124gr bullets at 1200 or 250 gr at 2300, take whitetails, boar, bear, squirrels, bobcat... whatever it takes. The recoil is more than manage able, and it's nice on the pocket for powder and bullets. for the light end, 708(ish). The 284 and 358 have an interesting SD relationship. But, a 708 with heavy bullets, will take anything in north america, but shot placement (as in all calibers) is always critical. Load it with 100 gr at 3200, and you have a fantastic varmit/turkey rifle that ANYONE can shoot. My wife is fantasticly recoil sensitive, and can shoot her 7.75# 708 all morning. turkey to elk, bear and moose, the 358 lays waste to anything else based off the 308 case. Either of these can be had in a bolt, auto, lever, single, or pump (well, you have to rebarrel). Both have great ballastics, and neither are too much to handle. Before I started shooting big bore, I thought the 338 as a MULE... now, when I get a 416 tuned down to kickin that light, I am pretty pleased. cheers, good hunting, and let's hear your opinions. jeffe | |||
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| one of us |
8x57 in handloads or European factory loads. Because of cheap milsurp rifles I developed a great respect for this cartridge, in the last few years. Its a real pity that new rifles in this caliber are not available in the U.S. As far as the mags, I just don't get the whole idea. I mean I've killed 400 + lb. "PISSED OFF" boars with 1 shot from 30/30's. I killed my first 2 elk with 30/30's , 1 at 90 yds , 1 at about 120yds, and both were complete broadside pass thru shots.l | |||
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one of us |
quote:Terry, Heym do a modern 8x57. I have one and it is a very nice rifle. I think there is an importer for Heym in the US. | |||
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| one of us |
Thanks DEERDOGS, I'll do a web search for their distributer. I have a great respect for my modernized Yugo Mauser, I just get a little leary about exploring the limits of this cartridge, with a 65 year old rifle! As far as I have been willing to push it, the Swift 220gr. bullet seems to have awesome performance capabilities. I like the apparent stability of large bullets under 3000 fps. Since I have never had any urge to shoot beyond 250- 300 yds. tragectory is not a big issue to me. | |||
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one of us |
I think the question was "most versatile" The first definition is as follows: "Capable of doing many things competently." Based on that IMHO it has to be the 30-06 followed closely by the 300 H&H Mag. It has probably taken every critter on the planet in it's 96 year history with bullet weights available from 96 grains to 250 grains. Factory loading are mild, loaded to 48,000 CUP BUT, a handloader could load it up to near 55,000 CUP in a modern bolt action and come within 200 FPS of 300 Mag velocities (with the 180 gr bullet. Plus you can get 06 ammo just about everywhere in the world. Plus the little old 06 has won tons of matches from Wimbledon to 1,000 bench matches. To my knowledge the 300 Win mag, and 338 haven't won squat. Now before you tell me that "your rifle" can shoot the wings off a fly at 400 yards ![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif){kind=icon} , I say "So go compete" and win some respect for that cartridge. ![[Razz]](images/icons/tongue.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| new member |
338 Win Mag gets my vote in the medium bore. - Ive got a Kimber Montana 308 as my lightweight rifle and a stainless Win 70 in the 338 and these two will cover about all the hunting in North America. The 338 is for when I need more punch and can sacrifice carrying more weight. Its a terrific hunting cartridge. - - - While the .30-06 is probably the single most versatile NA hunting round, - - it plain isn't a 'medium bore' and thats what this is about.(For all you eastern whitetail hunters & others that don't know the difference, - please go read any rifle mag or book that covers the subject. No one knowledgeable refers to a .30 caliber as a 'medium bore', at least in the USA ) The 338 is a hunting round for big and/or mean critters (such as elk, moose, and big bears) and thats what it was designed to do, not put little holes in paper. | |||
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Moderator |
I don't think the 30-06 fans have given the 35's a fair shake. Load a 125 gr pistol bullet to 1200 fps for plinker loads and small game, push 180's to 1700 for bigger small game up to deer at close ranges, load 225's @ 2700-3000 for any NA game and range, and load 310's @ 2400 for any game. There are also many loads in between those levels. I'd like to know what a 30-06 can do that a 358 Norma can't do? I do know what the 358 can do that -06 can't. The -06 is not an elephant gun, but tell me that 310 gr .358" @ 2400 isn't as effective on big thick skinned game as a 375. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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| new member |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MacD37: First off, the 375 H&H isn't a big bore, the 9.3s, and the 375 H&H are large medium bore chamberings. IMO the mediums start at 270 and go through .375. The 25s, and lower is what I call small bore. Big bores start a .400 caliber. - - - What MacD37 said ! | |||
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| One of Us |
Probably the 338WM. Factory loads from 180gr. - 300gr. and everything in between for hunting antelope to Big bear or buffalo. | |||
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| One of Us |
I also agree that PaulH makes a good point. | |||
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| One of Us |
I would have to say the 45-70 with any good flat nosed bullet of 300-450 grains. Should just about cover any situation right?  | |||
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| one of us |
just have to go with my .340 wby. | |||
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| One of Us |
I think there are three medium bore calibers that are very versatile, the 7mm, the 30 Cal. & the 338 Cal. I base this on the many bullet weights available. | |||
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One of Us |
300Weatherby  . | |||
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| One of Us |
During the last few years more and more bullet makers offered bullets for the increasingly popular 9,3 x 62. Look at this sample list that spreads the bullet weight range: 180 gr Impala Spitzer Solid 230 gr GS-HV 235 gr - Rhino 250 gr - Woodleigh, Swift, Rhino, Barnes-X, etc 270 gr - Claw, Speer 285 gr - Lapua, CDP 286 gr - Wdl, Nosler, Northfork, Rhino, Stewart 300 gr - Swift, Rhino 320 gr - Woodleigh 325 gr - Rhino That is pretty versatile, I would say. Chris | |||
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| one of us |
The most versatile medium boar would be the 300 Win.,H&H,Rum. As I see it. | |||
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