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I am the guy bitching about a Savage model 111 with the accutriger that I sent back to Savage and they put a new barrel on it because the gun could not hold paper or a pattern. They also closed down the head space to a minimum whit the new barrel. I had time to shoot it this weekend even then in the Texas Hill Country I had to stop and go put the rifle in front of the shop fans to cool the barrel. I was shooting Remmington 140 and Hornaday deer hunter 139 rounds. Not excited about the patterns yet but after about 20 rounds the rifle seem to get a little better patterns. Most of these two loads came out between 2820 and 2850 with only one being less. I had a 12 year old unopened bottle of Varget and I loaded 40, 41, and 42 grains and 139/140 gr bullets and was surprised and want to know do you think it is the powder or the old early 1980's CCI 200 primers? I got over 2600fps with the 40 grain load and got 2430-2450 fps than that on the 41and 42 grain loads with 140 nosler BT and 139 deer hunter lead tipped boat tails by Hornaday. Seems the more powder the less velosity. I had shot some other 270 rounds last fall and they seemed less fps that what worked out for the rounds years ago but to drop that much? Which do you think is bad? I am thinking the old CCI primers but..? I do not own a rifle that will not hold under an inch group but the last loads seem to get closer. | ||
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Sorry to hear this, brother, but I have to say I've had my own hit-or-miss experiences with Savage rifles. A couple were super accurate tack-drivers, while two others were dogs. Got rid of those. The 7mm-08 is, typically, a very accurate cartridge. But life's too short for an inaccurate rifle, and there's only so much time one can spend at the reloading bench hoping to dail-in *that* sub-MOA load. Maybe it's time to say 'bye bye" to this particular stick (?) All The Best ... | |||
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Try 41.5 grains of IMR4064 with the 139 grain bullets seated .010" off the lands and tell me that dog won't hunt. Personally, I have never found a cartridge that would shoot with Varget. I haven't tried that many different cartridges with it but finally just gave up on the stuff, life is just too short for the aggravation. Dennis Life member NRA | |||
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Funny, Varget is my go to powder in any 308 class cartridge. With Varget and 139/140 grain bullets, I would load starting at 41 and up to 43.4 in .4 grain increments. I suspect you will find an accurate load in there. Use the OCW method. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I will give it one more try. May get rid of both. 12 year old un opened powder or primers that are 30 plus years old. I fig that hand loading I could get up to the other loads of 2800 to 2850 not 2600 range. Any other loads for 7mm-08 with 139/140 grain loads appreciated. Thanks, Jim | |||
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I wouldn't give up on the powder nor primers. You apparently have a chrony so you can adjust your load at least close to what the book(s) say. You can also buy a single # of varget and see how that matches up against your old powder. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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Neither the unopened powder nor the primers should be the problem as long as they were stored properly over those years, which is to say, in a 'cool, dark, and dry' state. I've got 20-yr old CCI pistol & rifle primers that have been stored that way and recently loaded up some rounds with them and they worked fine. All The Best ... | |||
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Lightly compressed loads of RL-17 behind 140 gr bullets in the 7mm-08. 2850-2900fps with consistent standard deviation. I use RL-17 in everything from 30/40 Krag to 8x57IS. In larger case/bore ratio cartridges I use Norma MRP. The only other powder I buy is Alliant 2400 for my 5mm Remington RF Magnum (CF) conversion. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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I've been trying to stay out of this dust-up, basically because I have quite a few savages/barrels and two 7-08's, a 24" savage barrel re-threaded and put on a Ruger 77 and a 15" XP-100...BOTH shoot the Horn 120 V-max into tiny groups with Varget...it's the only "varmint" load I shoot in both. Both also shoot the Nosler 140 the same with 760, RL-15/17 and IMR 4350...760 being the fastest and most accurate with BOTH those bullets at 2.82-2.83" COAL. The problem with doing surgery online is not knowing the level of "expertise" you or any other posters have...what level of "tuning" of you or your rifle/scope system is at, how clean/rough the barrel is, or whether you have the ability to even shoot small groups..THE "YOU" being everyone...not you personally. I don't shoot factory ammo hardly at all and that I have shot, even the "match" stuff left a lot to be desired and if you ever measured a 20 round box you would understand. All that being said I HAVE come across a few lousy Savage barrels that were basically jack handles as is, but some ended up shooting >3/4" when I bobbed off 1-2" or polished the bore and cleaned down to the metal and started over with a specific combination AND happened to find the right component combination fairly quickly. I'm talking cals from 17 to 416 and cases Fireball to Jeffery size. If that were mine and I wanted to keep it I would clean right down to bare metal...polish the bore...buy some Lapua, Hornady, or Nosler brass...pick a well known for accuracy bullet like the Nosler BT in 130-140 gr...find the point the ogive touches the lands and measure the OAL...seat the bullet 0.015" shorter...load up 3 at a time of with a middle load of Varget, RL17, 760 or H414 and try them on target first and let cool between 3 shot groups...when you get a solid group THEN chrono. Sometimes you have to work hard to get what you want...or sell/trade for something else. In the bad old days I earned pretty much ALL my shooting components "tuning" rifles AND ammo fore those that didn't want to bother or didn't understand all they didn't know about making a factory rifle shoot very well. You can't expect a factory rifle to shoot like a custom job even tho' some of todays cheap POS's totally surprise me...I would STARVE if I were "tuning" rifles today because most are already very well tuned out of the box. Not to brag or rub noses, but I have a 5 year old Savage 375 Ruger that took a total of 21 rounds to hit the jackpot with a Nosler 260 Part and 760/RL17 at well over Hornady manual specs and holds nice overlapping cloverleafs over a 2 gr +/- range, a 10 year old 243 Win heavy barrel that just keeps amazing me with just about any of the lighter bullets I try and 4 year old Savage 338 Lapua that hovers around 3/4 inch with pretty much all weights/bullet types but I can't get it to shoot smaller groups no mater what I've tried and I've tried just about ALL my benchrest tricks and then some...this with factory barrels. That's just giving 3 examples...I could go on but I hope these examples will give you some idea of the range of effort you might need to get where you want to go. Good Luck   | |||
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i have loaded H-380 with 46 grains, shoot very well. but my go to powders are 42.0 grains of IMR 4064 or RL-15 with sierra 140 SBT Both of my 7mm-08's rifles really like these loads. | |||
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I use Varget in my 7mm08 (AR2208) and get 2800 easy with 140 gr TSX. Corlokt & Hornady bullets. My powder charges are similar. I use Fed 210 primers for all standard cases, Fed 205 for my 222 Rem & Fed 215 Mag for really large cases. Great cartridge for deer. Very accurate and easy to shoot & kills game quickly. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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It was hard to believe the velocity change in the factory loads on 2800-2850 range and my loads of Varget CCI 200 primers would give 2500-2600 and that the higher vel was the 40 grain load and the 42 grain was the slowest. I did throw the 1983 primers away and bought couple of new boxes of CCI 200 primers since looking my other guns seem to shoot a lower velocity too. Not enough to miss but still 100- 150 off old loads. The gun had a brand new barrel from Savage and had 8 rounds thru it before Sunday and I put -20-25 rounds thru the gun. Certainly not broken in good yet. They got a tight head space on this gun and the cheap plastic stock sucks as compared to the same gun my so has that is 15 years old with a better stock and a tack driver. The last few shots were closing down so there is hope for the gun. Be nice if the Hornaday deer hunter loads would work. I shoot the Nosier 140/150's BT's and they all shoot 1" or less in the other guns but I do not like the Nosler BT in comparison when it had a lead tip. I do not miss but I do not like the expansion of these compared to the old lead BT's. The new Nosler BT's do not seem to expand as well as the old ones and give as good an exit wound some of the time. Any other load help on 139/140 loads is appreciated. Thanks, Jim | |||
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Little things can make a large difference. When I got my 7mm08 I couldn't get brass so I bought hornady whitetail ammo with the 139 gr bullet. It shot 3 to 4 inch groups. I reloaded that brass with the same hornady 139 gr bullet with varget and H4350 seated out about 1/16 of an inch to just clear magazine and not touch the rifling and it shoots one inch or less. So you just have to find the right combination. Also you mentioned a plastic stock. In my experience they are difficult to shoot well because they can flex and touch the barrel differently from shot to shot,unless you hold absolutely consistently. Hope this helps. | |||
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Id at least start over, dump the 12 year old powder and primers..Use some modern components, if that doesn't work, dump the rifle or use a Lothar walthar barrel in it.. Its all but impossible to solve your problem on the internet, its all guess and by gosh..The bench rest is where the fix shows up as a rule, try and try until something works.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I fill the cheap plastic forestock with epoxy. Prevents warp or any movement. By the time I got done modifying my Stevens 200 in 7mm Remington Magnum which is the same barrel and barrel nut I was grouping a. 473" group. I still remember those tiny groups from that cheap $309.99 dollar gun. Still got me a mule deer in the southern sand hills of Saskatchewan at over two hundred yards downhill. It dropped instantly at the shot which hit high far lung. The other was a whitetail at over 200 yards. Shot that deer with the 7 mag and a weaver k6 steel tube. Middle double lung and the 160 grain flat base TSX dropped that deer instantly out of sight. | |||
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I was using 68 grains of IMR 4350 which is the coolest looking can. | |||
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Corey, What are you smoking? 68 grs of IMR-4350?? in a 7mm-08??? Am I missing something? That's too hot for a 7 mag, and you couldn't get that much in a 7-08..Tell me its a misprint. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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You are right Ray. I was looking for a fun little gun. It was getting better after shooting fig it has had only abut 50 rounds thru the new barrel. N- I did a lot of that back in the 80's working up the old Chet Brown fiberglass stocks when they first came out. My 270 and 7 mag are still just as good as they were when I took the time to gunsmith them and if a serious hunt is what I would use. At 70+ and still working full time and family and grand kids. Time is what I am short of. The son's old left hand savage 7mm-08 was good right out of the box but 12-15 years ago. This was going to be a fun little gun to play with / varmint hunt, and carry on a friend's trophy deer ranches where you can cull a little and look at big deer, and on warmer days c and r a lot of bass from his lake. If it shoots a little better I will drop in in a descent stock and bed it and try to smooth out the action. I had found this group of posts on the son's left handed 7mm-08 from the early 2000's. Really wonder what new powders have come up since then. 7mm-08 loads Jim, 39.5-41grs. RE15, 9 1/2 primers would be the best place to start, RE15 is an awesome powder in my 7mm08. Though I do use 39.5grs. of Varget for the 150Nosler BT, and it puts em in a nice .460" hole(5 shots), 3 in the same hole. With 139/140's, IMR or Accurate 4064 (42-43 MAX); one of the 4895's (41.5 MAX); R15 (43 MAX); Varget (43 MAX); H414/W760 (48 MAX) all perform well. I thought you'd never ask, I shoot a 150MK in my 708 Rem. over 39grs. of RE15 or 39.5grs. Of Varget with the 150Nosler BT, they both shoot under 1/2" at 100yds With 145/150's, H4350 (48 MAX) and H414/W760 (47 MAX) have always been stellar. . I settled on 41.1 gr of 4064 for the 139's and 40.7 gr of 4064 for the 154's and I consistently get 2750 and 2650 fps mv (respectively) and .625" 100yrd groups out of my stock 22"Rem700ADLSynth. The Hodgdon book lists Varget 42.2gr at 2800 for a 140 gr and 41.3 gr for a 150 gr at 2730 from a rem 24 inch barrel. (I know every gun is different.  I have had very good results with 43.5 grs. of Varget with the 140 gr. Partitions. You might remember I use 39.5grs. of Varget with 150BTs, 40grs. was slightly less accurate, either load put 2 shots in the same hole and the third off to the right a bit, when I shot 3 shots at 300 last Sat. the group went 1 9/16", RE15 as I've said in prior threads is my favorite 7mm08 powder, but I can't argue with the results Varget gives me with the Noslers. J 7mm08 this past week @300yds. with a load of 39.5grs. of Varget and 150NBTs, 5 shots at about 2.5", though my favorite 708 powder is RL15, Varget, or 4064 will also do a super job in the 708 with 150gr Noslers, also shot 3 shots @300yds. with 39grs. the only thing is, the 140 will shoot a little flatter, my current load is zero'd @200 and is about 9" low at 300yds., a 140 will be only 1/2" higher. Jay 139gr.Hornady SST 40.5gr IMR4895 @ 2670 fps-very accurate 139gr.Hornady SST 40.5gr H4895 @2760 fps-accurate/faster 140gr.Nosler Partition 47.0 gr H414 @ 2815-accurate max load 140gr.Barnes TSX 47.7 H414 @ 2889 -EXTREME ACCURACY-MAX LOAD I'm using 39.5grs. of Varget with the 150NBT, 9&1/2 primer, Rem. brass, out of a Rem S/S, under 1/2" @100 yds for 5 shots, a grain or more with the 139s should work well for ya, just remembered, I loaded some 139s for a buddy with 40.5grs of Varget for his model 7, first 3 shots went a hair over 1/2", go for it. Jay Denny, I have used verget 43 to 44 grains with a 140 sierra b.t. but now i load 44.5 grains of RL-15 I get better groups and more volocity. I have tried all the above combinations with good results, with the exception of IMR3031, I'll have to try that one. The 7-08 seems to be one of those cartridges that shoot almost anything well. Recently I discovered a load for my son's Model 7 that is phenomenal. 120 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip 44.5 grs Reloader 15 Fed 210 primers R-P cases 2.800" C.O.L. 2850 fps 15' from the muzzle. | |||
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Being a dyed in the wool 7x57 fan, Ive always passed on the 7-08, but it has to be an excellent caliber and suitable for all NA big game. and it beats the 7x57 with factory loads, but not with handloads..I would love to have a Savage 99 FWT in 7-08. and if I find a good donner 99 I will build one in that caliber..Be a great saddle gun. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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43 grains IMR 4350 is nearly 100% load density. 68 grains is over 150% of usable case capacity. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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I've used black powder that was stored in an unheated milkhouse for 19 years and it worked just fine. Smokeless powder stored in sealed containers should last indefinitely if kept cool. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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I agree, but smokeless can and has gone bad, sitting in a can that's bee opened and even in sealed cans.. it turns a reddish color and has a distinct acidic smell... I bought 6 sealed cans of old H4895 in an auction, it was all bad...I witnessed some sealed IMR-4320 some years ago..Black will last forever, but Ive been told it changes its potency???? Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Dude, it might be time to consider looking for a new rife. That one you have ain't doing real well.  All The Best ... | |||
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As long as it's dry, the only way to change potency is to change the granule size. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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