New testing of my Win.70-338-06 A.I. has played the silhouette game very well.I normally shoot this event with black powder cartridge rifles, but have been known to poke some non-magnum smokelss rounds out to 500m.
The loads, all 200gr. Hornady SP pushed to 2700 fps with H-380 and Varget.
Rifle was zeroed to 200m(chicken line)I limit my shots on the 200m to just siting one dead center.Next line 300m(Pigs)5 shots 5 pigs group of 2"-3" barrel allowed to cool 5 more shots,no misses group size stayed 2"-3".On to 385m (turkeys)1 sighter shot was needed to zero.5 shots 5 turkeys group size stayed @ 2"-3" barrel cooled then 5 more shots,4 of 5 targets hit group size stayed 2"-3" with one flyer.
500m is where I was very impressed group size opened up a bit to 5" but it was a very predictable bullet trajectory,I could have knocked down 20 Rams if I desired.I shot the Silhouette Range at the Folsom Shooting Range in Sacramento CA.Wind and mirage are very much in play at this range it is my favorite public shooting range in the 11 western states.
I shot this course of fire for 3 days shooting 150 rounds through warm and dry to drizzly,cold and wet.The .338-06 A.I. proved to me a very accurate very pleasant cartridge to work with.Accuracy will improve with better designed bullets i.e, boat tail and H.P.
I have had rifles that did o.k. @ 100 yds that did splendid if you stretched them out a bit.
Benchmark barrels are as good as any out there.

What's not to like about the 338/06 imp! An excellent round. Congratulations on you shoot.

One thing I never understood about the .338/06 guys is why they all want to shoot such light bullets. If you want fast and flat, there are far better calibers. If you want to shoot a .338, at least stick a 225 grain bullet in there.

One thing I never understood is why some guys shoot more bullet than is necessary for the task at hand. Why shoot a 225 or 250 grain bullet at deer when a 180 or 200 works great?

Recoil comes into play with a full 150-target match - why shoot a heavier bullet than needed? I don't think that the OP is recommending the .338-06 for shooting silhouette matches, but he proved to himself that the cartridge does well in that application.



.

One thing I never understood is why people don't do everything EXACTLY as I would do it..;

+1 for the 338-06AI

Love my 338-06ai built on a Sako m75 Greywolf. Shoots uder 0.5" groups with 225gr Accubonds & TTSX's.

Good shooting!!

quote:

Originally posted by TX Nimrod:
One thing I never understood is why some guys shoot more bullet than is necessary for the task at hand. Why shoot a 225 or 250 grain bullet at deer when a 180 or 200 works great?

Recoil comes into play with a full 150-target match - why shoot a heavier bullet than needed? I don't think that the OP is recommending the .338-06 for shooting silhouette matches, but he proved to himself that the cartridge does well in that application..

Perhaps for the same reason that not everyone who wants a motorbike chooses a Moped? Maybe they just like something with more juice.

It is easier to slow down a Harley than to do 100+ on a moped, and sometimes the extra oomph comes in handy...mght even save one's life if he has to travel the freeway. Same goes for .338-06 loads.

Either the Harley or the heavy bullets in a .38-06 will perform better in accordance with how much one uses and develops skill with them.

I'll make you a deal, though. You buy me a rifle and pay for all my ammo, and I'll shoot whatever you want me to...at least for a while...

The 338-06 is a great game round. I probably would choose something else for metsil, but why not? No flys on some lighter wt bullets in the 338-06. I hunt almost exclusively w/ the 210grNP, only ever recovered one from all kinds of large & smaller critters. It seems almost made for the 338-06. Running an easy 2750fps, it just flat works out to 330yds or so, about as far as I have taken game with it. The Barnes 210grTTSX would be another exc choice in a lighter/flatter shooting bullet.

+1 on the 210 TTSX in the almost universal 338-06 caliber! Yes, I have 338WM and it is almost growing cactus in the gun cabinet.

+2 one the 210gr TSX

There are not very many animals on this planet that it will not work on.

Choice and personal preference is a wonderful thing.

If you're not going to use bullets heavier than 200grs, something in 8mm would be much better than .338.

An 8X57IS can easily attain 2700fps W/O exceeding 60,000 psi W/the right high energy powder.

An 8mm-06 A.I. can easily reach 2850fps @ those chamber presssures W/200gr pills.

Been there, done that in both cases.

A 200gr .323 bullet will have a better BC & SD than a .338 bullet of similar weight.

When shot @ the same velocity the .323 will have a flatter trajectory & more downrange energy.

Unless one goes to a case W/more capacity such as 338 Win Mag, the 338 is not very efficient IMO. there's just not enough gas to push 338 bullets of appropriate weight in '06/308 sized cases @ Mvs that yield flat trajectories, hence Winchester's decision to go W/8mm in their last WSM offering.

I just don't see the American obsession W/338 cartridges.

quote:

I just don't see the American obsession W/338 cartridges.

In all sincerity friend.....I don't think there is an American obsession here....it might be an obsession with posters to the AR forums but if there is an American obsession it's with the .30 calibers IE:
.30 M1 carbine
.30-30
.300 Savage
.308 Win
.30-06
.300 RCM
.300 Win mag
.308 Norma
.300 H&H
.300 weatherby
.300 RUM
.30-378
and I probably missed a few!....and there's probably more than ten times the number of .30-06 rifles in the hands of Americans than all the .338 rifles all put together....now that's obsession.....and a well deserved one at that as the .30 cals work just fine!

wildcat junkie:

you have just made a ton of statements withhout offering the rest of us substantive data to back it all up.

For example, you name a 200 gr 8mm bullet and claim it has superior BC and SD as compared to a similar weight 338. Fine. But a 200 gr 8mm is getting heavy for caliber compared to a 200 gr 338 which is practically mid weight.

You then went on to compare trakectory flight characteristics without sharing similar load date for the 338.

You told us the 06 case is not particularly efficient shoving the 338 bullet. Lots of folks argue the 06 case is actually most efficiently used when the 338 size prjectile is in there.

Not sure if you have access to Winchester's design notes and reasons for using the 8mm vs the 338 in their wsm line either?

If you don't see the American obsession if you want to call it that with the 338 bullet you're not looking very hard!

Personally, I'd be interested to see your data backing up your claims. I suspect neither you or I or anyone on this board could truly appreciate miniscule differences in the field between most of these medium bore cartridges. In fact, most differences are mostly academic when compared to on-game performance.

Perhaps most interestingly, the 8mm bullet was originally designed to kill men while the 338 bullet has a much more illustrious history tracing its lineage back to such African stalwarts as the 318 WR and the 333 Jeffery.

I understand we all have our opinions but I'm sure your's would carry more weight if you could substantiate your claims if you're gonna make them!

Jeff

Wildcat Junkie is right. It you are going to shoot 200 grain bullets, the 8mm is the better choice. Better sectional density. IMHO, loads for the .338 should start with a 210 grain bullet and go up from thee. The 225 is a peach.

I don't care either way in this argument, but no one touting the 8mm has pointed out that with the same case, the same pressure, and the same weight bullet, you can get more velocity from the 338 vs the 8mm. There is nothing magic in ballistics. As they say, the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. That same higher Sectional Density and longer bullet which gives the better ballistics also gives more bearing surface at the same bullet weight and higher pressure curves. I expect to see numerous loads quoted as proof of one side or the other, but this is the science of the matter. The bottom line is that the 338 is a little bigger bore, therefore can be made to hit a little harder overall, and will kick a little harder in doing it.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

I just don't see the American obsession W/338 cartridges.

In all sincerity friend.....I don't think there is an American obsession here....it might be an obsession with posters to the AR forums but if there is an American obsession it's with the .30 calibers IE:
.30 M1 carbine
.30-30
.300 Savage
.308 Win
.30-06
.300 RCM
.300 Win mag
.308 Norma
.300 H&H
.300 weatherby
.300 RUM
.30-378
and I probably missed a few!....and there's probably more than ten times the number of .30-06 rifles in the hands of Americans than all the .338 rifles all put together....now that's obsession.....and a well deserved one at that as the .30 cals work just fine!

+1 we love the .30 cal!

Vapo off the top of my head you missed:

.30-40 Krag
.300 WSM
.30 T/C
.308 Marlin
.300 Whisper
.307 Win
.309 JDJ
.30 Newton
.30 RAR/Remington AR
.30 Remington

quote:

Unless one goes to a case W/more capacity such as 338 Win Mag, the 338 is not very efficient IMO. there's just not enough gas to push 338 bullets of appropriate weight in '06/308 sized cases @ Mvs that yield flat trajectories, hence Winchester's decision to go W/8mm in their last WSM offering.

While I agree 2700 fps i a mild load for the .338-06AI and the Hornady bullet. I could get it up to 2900+ fps pretty easily. It just happens to be pretty darn accurate at 2880 fps in my standard .338-06. While you might think he needs a heavier bullet, I can't imagine any animal in the lower 48 hit with that bullet shaking it off very easily. Plus the 200 grain Hornadys are CHEAP to shoot, especially when you are shooting a high volume of bullets.

I don't buy into the fact that Winchester couldn't have made a .338 WSM. A local smith down here is making a .375 WSM wildcat and getting H&H and Ruger velocities out of a 22" barrel with 270 and 300 grain bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Art S.:
I don't care either way in this argument, but no one touting the 8mm has pointed out that with the same case, the same pressure, and the same weight bullet, you can get more velocity from the 338 vs the 8mm.

Probably true Art but there are lots of other 8mm (225 WSM, 8X68, and my fav, the 8mm Rem Mag.) that are all super cartridges.

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
wildcat junkie:


For example, you name a 200 gr 8mm bullet and claim it has superior BC and SD as compared to a similar weight 338. Fine. But a 200 gr 8mm is getting heavy for caliber compared to a 200 gr 338 which is practically mid weight.

On the contrary, a 200gr .323 bullet is more of a mid weight bullet similar in BC & SD to a 165gr .308 bullet

The 200gr .323 bullet is perhaps the best compromise for Mv, BC & SD.

In fact, a 200gr .323 Nosler Partition has a BC of about .425 while a 180gr .323 Nosler BT has a BC of about .390ish.

Even when a 200gr .323 Partition starts 120fps slower than the 180gr .323 BT, (2730 vs 2850 in my 8X57 IS) the 200gr Partition will shoot flatter once it gets much beyond 100 yds.

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
You then went on to compare trakectory flight characteristics without sharing similar load date for the 338.


Jeff

Regardless of caliber or bullet weight, the bullet W/higher BC WILL shoot flatter & be less affected by wind drift when traveling @ similar Mv.

When comparing similar weight bullets of similar ogive, base shape, nose profile, etc, the smaller caliber bullet WIll have a higher BC. Therefore, since the smaller caliber bullet of similar weight has the higher BC, it will shoot flatter, carry more energy downrange & be less affected by wind when launcehed @ the same Mv.

When comparing similar weight bullets, the smaller caliber bullet WILL always have the higher SD regardless of shape.

These are indisputable facts governed by the laws of physics & even the O'bama administation can't repeal the laws of physics.

quote:

Originally posted by taylorce1:

While I agree 2700 fps i a mild load for the .338-06AI and the Hornady bullet. It just happens to be pretty darn accurate at 2880 fps in my standard

My 2730fps 200gr Partition load for my 8X57IS is pretty darned accurate too.

Here are the very 1st 3 shots from my military take off barreled 8X57IS W/that load on paper.



I had done some preliminary (offhand through the chronograph) load developement off my back deck checking Mv & pressure signs.

Since that load was giving good Mv W/great standard deviation W/O pressure signs, I loaded some up & went to the range the next morning.

Quickload predicts just under 60,000psi W/that powder/bullet combo @ that Mv.

I only had a few bullets & was preparing for an Adirondack early bear season hunt.

After those 3 shots I didn't feel much need for further load developemnt.

That same load took 2 Whitetail bucks @ over 240yds last year. One that was hit quartering on through the lungss was DRT. The other I had misjudged the angle on. He was quartering on & I thought he was quartering away. (he was standing in the shadows) I hit him through the liver, missing the lungs completely. That buck went about 15yds before piling up. He was dead by the time I got to him.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
IMHO, loads for the .338 should start with a 210 grain bullet and go up from thee. The 225 is a peach.

I would even consider the 210 a bit "light for a .338.

And yes the 220+gr bullets would be my choice IF I where loading for a .338.

FWIW when my .338-06 is complete the bullet of choice will be 225 grains.....probably an accubond if one is available in that weight!

I did use the cheap 200 gr Hornady SP's and they shot very well indeed.It would be the lightest bullet I would use in this cartridge with the 210's and 250's for game in a Nosler or Sierra.I have both now and will be testing those as well.I was interested in seeing what a mid weight bullet would do at longer ranges.For non magnum rifles in .30 cal and .338 2700-2800 fps mid -heavy for caliber bullets shoot very well in my experience.
I use the silhouette range for seeing what a perticular cartridge/bullet is doing.The .338 -06 is amongst one the best cartridges for the silhouette game I have used.I can zero @ 200m and with minimal scope adjustment get to 500m and back to the in between stuff easily.Not nearly as wind sensitive as .30 cal at the same speed.The darn thing is so repeatable and I like that it don't get pushed around by the wind as bad as .30 cal equivalents.

I can not think of one instance where a I would choose a 225gr bullet over a 210 in my 338-06.

Short list of animals I would not be comfortable hunting while I had 210gr TSX's loaded in my rifle.

Elephant, Rhino, Cape Buffalo, Wooly Mammoth, T-Rex, well, you get the idea.

quote:

Originally posted by SDhunter:
I can not think of one instance where a I would choose a 225gr bullet over a 210 in my 338-06.

Short list of animals I would not be comfortable hunting while I had 210gr TSX's loaded in my rifle.

Elephant, Rhino, Cape Buffalo, Wooly Mammoth, T-Rex, well, you get the idea.

Isn't the TSX a "monolithic bullet?

That changes the ball game somewhat since anyhing heavier in such a non lead core bullet would be overly long in .338.

Personally I would still opt for a 220ish lead core bullet in .338. JMO

Does anyone know of a bullet in 338 bore that DOES NOT work well in a 338/06?

I think the worst of the batch available is the 215 grain Sierra... and even that one is more than adequate for deer or elk...

In mine I personally stick with the 200, 225 and 250 grain Hornadys..they do more than enough of what I need to accomplish with that rifle.

and then after that you have all sorts of premium bullets, that probably do even better under terminal performance standards...

the 338/06 is definitely more than enough rifle to accomplish field situations in North America..

with 200 grainers, I can exceed 2900 fps with several powders,

run right short of 2800 fps with 225 grain bullets...

and mine will run 250 grainers at 2650 fps, with H 380.. my favorite bullet being the 250 grain RN..

in my stash of 300 examples of the old 275 gr Speer RN, I am able to push those to 2400+ fps..
( sure wish that old bullet was still made...)

the 338/06 is one versatile and do all cartridge for anything huntable in the lower 48, which takes in any hunting I am ever going to do...

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
FWIW when my .338-06 is complete the bullet of choice will be 225 grains.....probably an accubond if one is available in that weight!

Just used the 225 gr Accubond in my 338-06 to take a grizzly and a blackie. Complete penetration and an instant kill on the black with the grizzly doing a number of spins over about a 25 yards disctance biting at the entrance wound before falling over. Again, complete penetration. Fired one more insurance shot. Great bullet and extremely accurate in my rifle. BC is sky high so it shoots pretty darn flat when launched at 2640 fps.

Very nice boxhead.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Probably true Art but there are lots of other 8mm (225 WSM, 8X68, and my fav, the 8mm Rem Mag.) that are all super cartridges.

You forgot the Grandaddy of em all Dave, the 8X57IS.

It's a super cartridge too when loaded to it's full potential in modern firearms.

I used the caliber for years and was satisfied wth it, but switched my allegiance to the .338 Win. when it came out just to see if I liked it better and I did..It came to us in the same size action, same weight with no more recoil as far as I can tell, better velocity and handled the 300 gr. Woodleighs better and or I suppose I could have loaded it down to 338-06 IMP balistics if needed....

I tried a 9.3x62 and I liked it better also..I swear by the 9.3x62 these days, its the best case on a non belted 06 size case. A 250 gr. bullet at 2700 FPS or a 320 gr. Woodleigh or 300 gr. A-Frame at 2400 FPS is hard to beat for deer or Cape Buffalo and elephant isn't out of the question with solids. Recoil is about like a 220 gr. 06, at least to me..

Not to say the 338-06 IMP isn't a fine caliber, it is for sure.

quote:

A 200gr .323 bullet will have a better BC & SD than a .338 bullet of similar weight.

When shot @ the same velocity the .323 will have a flatter trajectory & more downrange energy.

The diff would be so minimal as to not be an issue. Compare 200gr/8mm & 210gr/338 both @ 2700fps, you couldn't hold the diff @ 400yds & the remaing energy is almost a tie.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:

quote:

A 200gr .323 bullet will have a better BC & SD than a .338 bullet of similar weight.

When shot @ the same velocity the .323 will have a flatter trajectory & more downrange energy.

The diff would be so minimal as to not be an issue. Compare 200gr/8mm & 210gr/338 both @ 2700fps, you couldn't hold the diff @ 400yds & the remaing energy is almost a tie.

Exactly!

But we are talking about 200gr .338 bullets, not 210.

There would be better retained energy for the 200gr 8mm bullet compared to a 200gr .338. Maybe not a lot, but the 8mm would be the equal to slightly better for all intents & purposes in a more effecient cartridge.

So what's the big deal about a cartridge that barely surpasses the 8X57IS in performance?

There's not enough difference to write home about.