Got no help from Kahles. Group jumps back and forth from near center target to a scattered 1 inch high and 2 inches left. Scope is a Helia 3-9X42. Worked fine for the last 50+ rounds. Mounts are still tight. Ammo is PPU 7X57R.
CB

In what way did Kahles rebuff you? I sent them my old Helia Super in 2002 when it finally fogged up after 21 years. It did cost me $540, though, almost twice what I'd paid for it.

If all else fails, you could ask Ironsight Inc. They did a good job on an old reticle-movement Nickel refurbished before I bought it.

Assuming your scope is not of that vintage, the problem sounds like a damaged or malfunctioning erector spring, the bane of modern models with 'constantly centred reticles'. Under recoil's rise the front of the erector tube may 'dive', with the outer end of the spring relocating against the outer tube as the erector returns to battery. The worst case could be that slamming back against the turret screws may have dented the erector tube, after which it sometimes returns to a slightly different situation, thus moving the zero. In the event that unusual parallax has also developed, it may be that the gimbal or ball-joint holding the erector tube has worn, allowing the large assembly to move forward and back in the scope.

If those separated impacts occur at different magnifications, and the scope has a non-magnifying reticle, the problem could be wear in the power-scroll mechanism.

There is a simple, ancient answer to all of those possibilities, of course, but laziness/lousiness has decreed we'll probably never see it return.

Thanks for chiming in.
Never got through to Kahles who is now part of Swarovski. Word on their website is even lifetime warranties aren't worth shit after 10 years and you need the original receipt which I do not have. I bought it used. They listed no option for a repair on non-warranted scopes.
Might try some of my go to handloads in order to rule out the PPU ammo as the culprit.

So are you saying the rifle grouped fine for the last 50+ rds, then began walking shots with the same ammo? Same Lot#? If so, I agree that something may have shot loose on the inside.

With nothing more than the info you provided, Id scope the barrel.

Curiouser and curiouser ...

I'm wondering how they can deny the length of their own warranties - but don't recall them being so long last century, unlike Pecar's 25 years. (Leupold continued their lifetime warranty from before the decadence but I suspect it became just the cost of keeping business rather than the previous assurance of reliability.)

In regard to accessing Kahles's workshop, I sent mine through Granite Arms, an agent here who would have added their own commission, but haven't heard of them for years.

The leakage problem probably could have been fixed here but I love that old scope and wanted it restored properly. (Until about 1985 they made them really strong, something obvious when you twist the knobs.)

Thanks all.
Here's what turned me off (URL below) and caused me to just give up on Swaro/Kahles repairs. I know it's an old post. But, enough said.
Scroll down to the orange C for the clearwater ken post.

https://www.snipershide.com/sh...rranty-rocks.117110/

Warranties are only as good as the company that issue them.

When my Kahles KX 3.5x10x50 failed, I returned it to Kahles and it was repaired just fine.

Since new, it sat on my Sako L461 Vixen in 222remmag as my main coyote rifle, then I moved it onto a TC Icon in 243.

Something let loose inside and it was shooting about 18" to the left and about 2' high. No amount of adjustments worked, so I sent it in to be repaired.

Years ago, I bought a 12ga sxs from HK, with a 'lifetime' warranty.

The shotgun was made by Fausti for HK.

So, a few years after I bought it, the right ejector stopped working, and I called the HK warranty department.

The first person that answered the phone said 'we don't warranty that shotgun'. I replied, you must be mistaken, as I have the paperwork in my hand as we speak, and it says HK will warrant the shotgun for life. I'm still alive and your still in business, so I have your written warranty.

Her reply was 'we do not warrant that shotgun", so I asked for a manager.

Manager gets on the line and says 'we don't warranty that shotgun'.

Long story shot, the 5th person I was transferred to finally told me how to repair it myself.

Nobody at HK would answer why they would not warranty that gun, that had their name on it, and all the paperwork said HK warrants this gun for life.

For warranty, HK sucked in my situation.

I'd like to know exactly what part a watchmaker would fix. I suppose a jeweller could solder back reticle posts that come loose.

The only things I've ever known to go wrong in the old reticle-movement Kahles scopes are ageing lens cement turning yellow and a reticle being 'blown out' by heavy recoil in a very light rifle.

This second complaint seems unbelievable but I suppose it could happen with the old German #1 type, which has no cross-cell support for the pickets.

In any case, it is hard to believe Kahles did not retain a box full of old reticle cells (about the size of fat wedding rings) when they succumbed to image-movement.

Got some Nosler partitions on the way to roll some fresh rounds up. If those don't affect the groups in a positive way then I will have to swap the scope for an identical Kahles from my scope cache. Just love the low light performance of these.

quote:

Originally posted by custombolt:
Thanks for chiming in.
Never got through to Kahles who is now part of Swarovski. Word on their website is even lifetime warranties aren't worth shit after 10 years and you need the original receipt which I do not have. I bought it used. They listed no option for a repair on non-warranted scopes.
Might try some of my go to handloads in order to rule out the PPU ammo as the culprit.

I had an issue with a Helia C 1.1-4x24, called Swarovski, got a work order number. Sent the scope to Swarovski, they sent it to Austria, then back to me after it was repaired. I am guessing that scope was 15 years old when I sent it in. This was within the past 2 years. There was no doubt this was an internal mechanical failure.

Idmay375
I may have to call their 800 number after I shoot some hand loads. Thanks.

You bet. Hope it all turns out well.

Yes Bobster. Apples to apples.

quote:

Originally posted by custombolt:
Thanks all.
Here's what turned me off (URL below) and caused me to just give up on Swaro/Kahles repairs. I know it's an old post. But, enough said.
Scroll down to the orange C for the clearwater ken post.

https://www.snipershide.com/sh...rranty-rocks.117110/

Did you try going straight to Swarovski?

No Michael. Don't how to go straight into someone at Swarovski.

I would simply contact their customer service people and explain that you have had no help from Kahles.

I have sent back a broken scope and a broken bino to Swarovski for repairs and they fixed both in very short order.

You'll never know if you don't ask.

They do not service the older Kahles scopes because no parts available. I've been down that rabbit hole a couple of times.

Have had no issues getting Kahles scopes repaired with Swarovski. Their website provides direction to the Swarovski repair portal. I’ve used it several times with no issues. Good luck!

I once had to send back an old Zeiss bino that finally stopped working.

Zeiss no longer made that model.

So, they sent me a brand new bino of comparable quality to the one that broke!

As I say, if you don't ask, you definitely won't get.

if you get it figured out please send me a PM. Not much luck getting the older Kahles scopes repaired. Curious, how old is the scope?

Might just be time to buy a Leupold.

I haven't read anything to make me think your scope is the problem. I'd borescope the barrel, check for stock warpage or pressure points, and then look at the scope. Put another scope on it and try it.

Ran some hot Nosler Partition 140 grain handloads through it Saturday. Groups tightened to 2 inches.

p dog. I own several Leupolds. These Kahles Helia scopes have superior low light transmission when compared to the VX-3.

Walker. Rifle is K1 Merkel single shot.

Just re-checked the twist rate. 8.66"/1 Might just not like light bullets. I had a Blaser with the same twist that liked 175's.
Got some Nosler LR bonded 175's on the way.

quote:

These Kahles Helia scopes have superior low light transmission when compared to the VX-3.

Does not do any good if it is broke and you can not get it fixed

True that pdog. But, I am still not 100% convinced that the scope is at fault here since some higher quality ammo with light bullets tightened up the groups by 1/3. I suspect the cheaper ammo and light bullets was at fault. That ammo was a bit of an experiment with lighter ammo/bullets. This barrel may just shoot best with heavier bullets. 1/8.66 is a fast twist. Back to an old load I used for a Blaser K95 I had (same twist rate as this one) except for the bullet type mentioned above instead of Nosler Partitions.

Just a thought.

You might want to "shoot the square" with the most accurate load you have tried.

Start with a shot or two or three at one corner of a square, and then shoot around it by dialing in 6 inches of elevation and windage, as applicable, towards each of the other three corners.

Shoot at each corner and see if the scope adjustments move your point of impact accordingly, i.e., by 6 inches for each adjustment.

If they do, then it's likely not your scope.

Best 5 shot group is now 1.44". A 3 shot group was .75 inch. Working up some more handloads. Scope adjustments are responsive and consistent. Using 1 inch sticker targets. Aim small, miss small works for me.
Scope might be fine, no service needed. This rifle just doesn't like these LR bullets loaded hot and fired to 100 yards. Needs more distance to stabilize.? I revisited my target groups and think my crazy PPU groups were not after 50 shots like I thought. Total fired was less than a box. So, I was thinking about the 166 grain silvertips that grouped well before the PPU's were tested. I shot a bunch of those.
Should get a final best soon.
Loads so far 47 grains H4831, 46, 44, 43.

Glad it it working out.

I own 25-30 scopes. None are Kahles and that will remain the case. Thanks for the warning.

The warning? The scope is fine.

quote:

Originally posted by custombolt:
The warning? The scope is fine.

I think df06 means by "thanks for the warning" is that even though you got your problem sorted out and it wasn't the scope playing up, Kahles/Swarovski are not going to be of any help in the future with older model scope repairs. Fair comment I think.

Well that makes sense. Thanks eagle27. Sorry if I misinterpreted your comment df06. CB

You'd be surprised what they can repair. Sent them s 6x36 Habicht and they took care of it in Austria in 6 weeks...