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| One of Us |
I am working on a load for a new 280AI that I acquired. Primary task is for an antelope hunt. The friend I acquired the gun from had not hunted with it much but had worked up loads and I have all that data. Problem was that his best loads and loads he gave me are with Nosler 140 grain ballistic tips and using Accurate XMR3100 powder. This setup routinely shot 5 shots under .5 moa. Problem being that this powder is no longer available so I am trying to duplicate the loads. I worked up some of the same bullets using H4831SC powder and got similar groups at 61.5 grains of powder. Here lies the problem in that the Nosler manual says 60.5 grains of powder yields 3099 fps. My 61.5 grain loads over my chronograph averaged 2993 fps. His SMR3100 loads averaged 3144 fps. Obviously hunting antelope where shots may be 400+ yards the difference in the trajectories is huge. I like the Ackley for the added horsepower. I haven't chronographed loads in quite some time but find it hard to comprehend how the manuals can be so far off. I understand my conditions and barrel length may be not as ideal as their test data but this difference was huge. I wanted to use the Nosler Accubond and that 61.5 grain load with those was putting them almost in the same hole when my hold. was good. Any ideas or reccomedations on what to use to get that velocity up there and keep the accuracy? I wantedd to try some RL22 powder but can't find any anywhere. | ||
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| One of Us |
You got a .5 moa load just go hunting. | |||
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| One of Us |
I have a couple of 280AI's that I load for and I always chrony my loads as I go...I have found that the capacity difference from brand to brand on brass accounts for a lot.. I have found that if I match the components that Nosler lists in the book exactly, my velocities are very, very close to theirs provided that my barrel is the same length. You change the components, any of them, and you just changed the recipe! You are only 100fps off of their velocity..if your barrel is 2" shorter..there is the difference... FWIW..I shoot 139gr. Hornady SST's over 58.5 gr of IMR4831 and get 3100fps and great accuracy..using Win. brass and Rem LR primers... Z | |||
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| One of Us |
I tend to use components that I have so the brass was Hornady,cci BR4 primers, 24" ER Shaw barrel. I wanted to load IMR4831 but can't find any and had H4831 so used those recipes. Nordic - I am about 135 fps slower with 1 full grain more powder so allot more than 100fps and trajectory is 3" @ 400 & 5+ @ 500 which to me is sizeable. | |||
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| One of Us |
That's a lot of work to make a 270.... | |||
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| One of Us |
If you can get hold of some, try IMR-4831. It is real similar to AA3100 and for your purposes will probably give you improved velocity over H-4831. | |||
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| one of us |
IMR-7828SSC. | |||
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| One of Us |
I think you are to concerned about a small velocity difference. I did not look this up or anything , but i just don,t think it would matter much. My strongest suggestion is, get closer ! ...tj3006 | |||
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One of Us |
270!!! Don't kid yourself; the 280 Ack Imp is far more capable than any 270. | |||
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| One of Us |
Capable if loaded faster than what a 270 can throw a 140 Accubond. | |||
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| One of Us |
I was also working with a 300 mag which was the Hornady cases so the 280AI were with Remington cases so my difference in the recipe was only the primer. Yes they are using a 26" barrel as opposed to my 24 but considering I had 1 full grain more powder than their proposed load that would get 3099 I would have expected to be closer. 2965 is more standard 280 speed. Sure the accuracy is there but I expected better. I am going to switch the load to the Federal primer and see what happens and also look some more for IMR4831 and/or RL22. From the manuals 3100 should not be that difficult in the AI | |||
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One of Us |
The difference in drop on a 140 grn ballistic tip between 2993 and 3144 at the 475 and 500 yard mark is 3 inches when zeroed @ 250. The difference in misjudging the distance by 12 1/2 yards is 2.5 inches at those ranges. BTW, you can easily miss estimate the range even with a laser range finder by 12 1/2 yards by having the laser bounce in front of the animal or slightly past the animal. Additionally, your crosshairs probably represent .3 MOA or close to 1.65 inches at 500 yards. Can you tell the difference in a 2 crosshair thickness of hold @ 500 yards? I can't. I would focus on getting inside of 350 yards. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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but the drift can vary widely. | |||
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| One of Us |
Trax, Absolutely the drift will be different...except the difference in drift at 500 yard between 2993 and 3144 is 6.9 inches... Oh but if you're shooting that higher velocity bullet and you misjudged the wind and you thought it was 10 mph instead of 13 mph...your bullet didn't drift 8 inches it drifted 18 inches. Shooting at 450 to 500 yards the least of his problems is 150 fps less velocity Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I've had great success in my 280AI using H4831, IMR 7828 and R22. Your worrying about nothing unless a long shot is your goal. A good guide will get you within your comfort zone. Political correctness offends me. | |||
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| one of us |
...shoulda bought a 7 Rem Mag......:-) | |||
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| One of Us |
Difference in drift w/.284 140 NAB (3144fps) at 500 is 5" between 10 mph and 13 mph wind. But you know, the wind always blows directly from left to right at exactly 10 mph. That's unless youre below the equator, then it blows right to left. But either way, at 500 yards is easy to hold off exactly 16" or 21". Most animals walk around with a yardstick up their ass. | |||
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| One of Us |
'The Nosler manual says', so what!the two boxes of ammo I bought from them said----no where near what my chrono read! Same w/ Hornady. What does your rifle/load chrono ? Quit watching the jackasses who get all their stuff free and paid (to make unnecessarily long shots to sell products on tv). Go to the range and practice ! If you want to take unethical shots, at least take the time to know your load and where your load hits at various distances, varying winds, elevations, temperatures,humidity. OR, you could do the smart thing. Load,sight in, chrono and practice shooting AND learning to be a better hunter and get closer. | |||
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| One of Us |
Too many gals puke at the 100 yard line, much less further. Watched a guy flip out that his rig was all screwed up because it shot so low at 300 yards. Well, at least until I told him he was actually shooting 330. that's a broken leg fo sho.... | |||
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| one of us |
I've had my best luck with the 280 AI using N-165. | |||
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| One of Us |
and Drift likely being the most varying & most unpredictable variable, becomes even more unpredictable since the published BC of bullets by manufacturers can often be overstated-erroneous and misleading. Time of flight figures are something else one should consider when intending to shoot out to 400-500yd. Reduced TOF with Lighter & faster bullets can be more effective in reducing drift & drop. and use bullets with verified-confirmed BC. | |||
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| One of Us |
Wow - I never knew wanting higher velocity and results commesurate with what a 280AI should produce would make me a bad hunter as insinuated by a couple people here. I do know about ballistics and wind - I used to shoot high power silhouettes competitively so I would say I learned a little from the experience and realize that velocity is not everything. On the hunting side I am first and foremost an archery hunter so I do know how to hunt an get close and for me the closer the better. I would much prefer a 100 yard shot to a 400 but one needs to be ready for all options and I am trying now to determine my best load options and then practice in many conditions and shoot some more silhouette matches again this summer so I will be ready when my antelope hunt comes in September. I'm not about long range hunting and have no intention of shooting over 500 yards. I know my outfitter and guides very well and they typically get within 250 or closer but sometimes that just doesn't happen due to location and available cover and wind direction | |||
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| One of Us |
So one minute you're shitting over 100 FPS and the next it doesn't matter..... | |||
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| One of Us |
Reload data comes from your gun and your loads---not a manual. Just watch another episode of jackass of the west and buy everything they are selling. It's that easy---you've seen it. It will dispell your concerns AND you can post a/b it! This is not obummer supporter central. We are a helpful group, but not for Goreons. Sorry, you asked for it. | |||
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tped, Nobody is suggesting you are a lousy or bad hunter or lousy or bad shot. What most and certainly I am stating is that 100-150 fps on a base of 3144 is not the issue to worry about given all the variables that will affect a 500 yard shot. BTW, if you go to the Hodgdon site; they show that ~3000 fps is the top end for the 280 AI with a variety powders for a variety of powders with a 24" bbl and the Nosler manual 3100 with a 26 inch tube which equates to 3030-3050. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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| One of Us |
I've not shot the 140gr from my 280AI but the powders that i've had the best results with have been RE-22, IMR4831, H4831SC, and AA3100. Pretty much in that order. I have shot 150gr to 168gr SMK bullets out of a 26" semi heavy barrel. I don't have my notes near me since i'm at work but I do believe the 150s were a bit over 3000fps. If I loaded at Nosler's max I was seeing pressure signs. I slugged my rifle's bore and it's pretty tight at .283 which explains the pressure I was seeing. | |||
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| one of us |
Hodgdon has loading data for the 280AI with 24" barrel. For the 140gr bullet data they used a Nosler BT and max load of 62gr/H-4831 @ 3012fps. VFW | |||
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