FYI, I have seen lots of articles recently on the newstands in various magazines, the best I believe written by Wayne Van Zwolle, who put it very succinctly......had very high praises for the industry developing it, and for the performance and practicality of this round.

Anyone interested should check out the reviews, I think Wayne really is telling it how it is in his writing, and he is very happy the round is commercialized.

Based not only on the positive feedback that reputable authors are giving on this round, and their feeling about the viability of the round being a success......I am thinking this round might be here to stay, albeit a niche round, it may become a solid round, as one author commented perhaps being one of the best uses of the 308 case since the 7mm-08 (likely playing on the latter's popularity-but not taking away from the 260 or 358)......but to see what I take as a genuine embracing of the 338 federal by the industry critics, I am optimistic this round sticks. I would personally choose it for a big game round any day over a 308, esp. if game larger than deer is in the mix. Not knocking the 308, but I believe this offers more weight and frontal area viewed by many to help put down game quickly.

It is nice to see a commercial round that has many things going for it, inc. very available brass for loaders from 308.

I will take the 8x57 Mauser over the 338 Federal, any day!

IMHO, there's nothing wrong with the .338 Federal. It makes a nice cartridge for a short action rifle. I really hope it makes it in the marketplace. But, the ballistics are really nothing new. It's very similar to the European spec ballistics for the 8x57JS.

As I have a Remington Model 700 Classic in 8x57 I was curious to see how the .338 Federal compared to the 8x57 so I put together this table. The .338 Federal has a few more foot pounds of energy but I don't think I'll be getting rid of my 8x57. Notice how the muzzle velocities are very similar with bullets of similar sectional densities.



BTW: I chronographed the S&B 8x57 196 gr SPCE load from my Rem 700 and the instrumental average velocity was 2647 fps for an average energy of 3049 ft lb. Not too shabby. The S&B factory spec for this load is 2592 fps (790 meters/sec).


I will say that the .338 Federal (based on factory spec ballistics) does add some punch compared to the .308 Winchester. Here's how the .338 Federal compares to the .308 Winchester and some other classic cartridges.



-Bob F.

That is why I ordered a 338 Federal AI reamer.

I believe the .338 Federal is here to stay too simply because it's a short action version of the .338-06 thus making it a lighter rifle and lighter in the recoil department. The .338-06 is not being chambered by any of the major manufacturers. But the .338 Federal is. Federal was smart to jump on the whole short action craze.

I own a .338-06. I personally don't believe the advantages of the .338 Federal far outweigh the .338-06. The 06 version shoots farther and has more energy and the additional recoil is negligible.

im so glad someone finally figured out the magic caliber. we have all been waiting years to actually kill a deer.

I think the 338 Federal is an evolutionary idea that was probably long overdue, and its success or failure will be tied directly to the arms in which it is chambered: short and light, hunters delight.
Having said that, what I don't want to see is a crop of new thin-skinned bullets designed for the velocities at which this new cartridge operates. It is inevitable that these new bullets will find their way into the larger 338s, and if the hand loader is careless the good reputation of the Winchester and Weatherby rounds will be soiled. Light 338 bullets are nothing new, however, to my knowledge all 338 bullets were designed as serious hunting bullets for large game.
When all the hoopla settles I'll still be using 250 grain partitions in my 338 Winchester...

I got to see this, a 338-06 shortened by one-half inch that offers more velocity with the same weight bullets. Are the "effing" fairies sprinkling pixie dust in the case? As case interior volume/powder capacity shrinks one of two things happens: either the shortie is slower, or the pressure goes up. From what Federal says, this thing would seem to offer more velocity than the 338-378 Wbee!! Ok, ok, I'm exaggerating a little, but where does velocity come from?

Rich
DRSS

or how a 33 caliber 180 grain bullet is 10-12% faster than a 180 gr .30 caliber in the same case.
must be more of those "coated" powders.

A 180 gr bullet in the .338 Fed will have a larger base area, due to the larger bore diameter, for the powder gas to push on. Also, the sectional density of a .338" 180 gr bullet is less than that of a .308" 180 gr bullet. Both factors should enable the .338 Fed to push a 180 gr bullet faster than the .308 Win.

The .308 Win and the .338 Fed will both shoot bullets of approximately the same sectional density at approximately the same velocities. Compare the 150 gr bullet in the .308 Win with the 180 gr bullet in the .338 Fed as an example. Both have a sectional density of .225-.226 and both have a velocity of 2820-2830 fps.



-Bob F.

I don't think the 338 bullets will start getting 'soft'

I don't think it will replace 338 Win Mag that is appropriate for hunting very large game at long range i.e. over 300 yds, nor for dangerous game.

I don't think the cartridge offers more than a 338-06 which I really like, and have owned other than a 1/2" shorter bolt throw and couple of ounces which is nice, but not that meaningful (though I personally still prefer all else equal)

What I do feel is at this time, it is one of the most practical cartridges throwing a mid bore bullet at decent speeds usable within ranges much game is to be taken, or as Wayne Van Zwolle stated himself, up to 300 yds which is where your 'average' or typical hunter can reliably place a shot to the vitals of game with any rifle.

I believe it does that with rifles and ammo that are much more available to the NON reloader over say a 8x57 or 358 winchester, and even 338-06. All those above rounds do a good job when loaded properly in a good rifle.

That said, I don't expect the industry to push the 358 much, and less the 8x57 in the US. IF the 338 Federal is marginally or better successfully in commercialization, than it may set the stage for 338-06 rifles and ammo production increase, and that would not be a bad thing.

Now when I see a 30TC introduced, I ask myself WHY? When it and the 308 both fit short action, now THAT is interesting, in and of itself.....a marketing ploy to be sure, with Hornady and TC standing to profit, which helps keep the industry rolling. WITH the strength of the marketing, it may become popular, and look for a 270 TC. Is it better than a 270-08 or Winchester or WSM? NOT at all, and I don't see the use, but some will sell.

The 338-08 will be a niche round likely when it all shakes out. I think the market will filter it into a niche in rifles more like the Model 7 carbine and Ruger compacts, Sako finnlight and big boar Tikka, etc. OH, lets not forget what many love the 358 in, a BLR. Now I don't see a demand for an 8x57, or 338-06 in carbines, but I see a HECK of a lot of carbines, and even BLR's sold and used in 7mm-08. Such may be where the dust settles with the 338 Federal, but it is taking a foothold with writers in standard sporter configured guns with 22" or so barrels, of average weight, i.e. Sako, and I am sure Tikka and Ruger to follow. The Kimber is a nice platform, but I would say the recoil would compare to a 7-7.5 lb 338-06, perhaps giving about as much recoil as wanted to tolerate in the 6 or sub 6lb rifle, which for a hunting rifle used more carrying than at the bench playing, is not so much an issue. To those using other rounds like mentioned above, no reason to sell or trade them in, enjoy as I am sure they are working well also. To the average Joe Blow looking for a deer or timber elk rifle contemplating a 308 or 30-06, I think the 338 Federal should be evaluated/considered. My .02 of course.

quote:

That is why I ordered a 338 Federal AI reamer.

Sure don't mean to be a stick in the mud but why? What are your expected gains? The AI version of the 243 & 260 add very little if any gain over the parent.

For the guy who wants a larger caliber bullet without brutal recoil, the 338 Federal will be a dandy addition. And the best thing is, if one doesn't want one, they sure don't have to buy one. A few calibers would take care of all the hunting needs on earth but what fun would that be.

the advantage of a larger caliber is usually the ability to shoot heavier bullets. so why dont the factory loads go up to 250?
recoil?
powder consuption?
bowling ball trajectory?

I think the "bowling ball trajectory" would be the reason. The .358 Win 250 gr factory spec load was about 2230-2250 fps. I would imagine that the .338 Fed with a 250 gr bullet would be similar.

-Bob F.

Despite what a good handload will do with a 250 in a 358, which those using rave about, at the ranges used, even up to really large game, I think a reloader can use 225 partitions or similar for equal penetration/killing power, at a cost of perhaps maxing range at 250 yds or so, but it should thump well.

As good as the 30-06 and 308 have been, I see this as a worthy competitor in field performance on deer and larger game.....and I have never nor expect to use a 30cal, not my thing.

That comment on AI's, a 260 or 243 can gain, but as you up bore size, the expansion ratio increase is so good, you get little gain, even in 308 much less 338 or 358 bore. I think adding 2 inches of barrel would do the same if such a minimal increase. A 20-22" should do all you want/need in a 338 Federal or 358. If more is needed and a short action desired, then go a 284, WSM, SAUM, or 6.5 350 Rem Mag case. Doing so would force rolling your own, and a custom barrel job if doing a 338 wildcat, which is one advantage in my mind of the 338 Federal anyway.

At the speeds used and the reports from the field on 210 partitions and 185 x bullets, I cannot imagine a want for a larger heavier bullet in this round, but if so, a 225 partition might give you a tad more thump with a reasonable range. I would NOT use a mono bullet as velocity may fail to expand as well as a soft nose partition. A 225 Hornady or Speer (though perhaps a Boat tail I believe-getting down more into the powder) might do just fine at these modest speeds.

I would be interested in hearing field reports not only on deer, but esp. on elk with a 200gr Hornady. A ballistic tip would be great if you achieve velocity w/in the OAL spec of your action used. They are said to be very tough, though if you intend to break heavy bone the 210 pt or 185x would perhaps do more.

I'm glad to see new cartridges and new ideas but this one to me is a yawner. It's almost as exciting as the new 308 Marlin Express.

Posted by buckshot:

quote:

I think the 338 Federal is an evolutionary idea that was probably long overdue, and its success or failure will be tied directly to the arms in which it is chambered: short and light, hunters delight.

I felt that if Remington, Savage, Ruger, or Winchester had offered the .338-06 chambering it would have went farther as a commercial cartridge. If Weatherby had offered it in the Vanguard line as well as the Ultra Lightweight it might have lasted longer as a commercial chambering in their rifles. Plus the price tag on the ammunition was just to high.

I like the idea of the .338 Federal and I've already seen a Savage 99 re-barreled to it as well as an AR10. I'd really like to see it offered in a BLR, I think that would make one sweet rifle.

I look for the BAR to be out soon as well as the Encore. Most guys in this age of kevlar hide animals need a SuperDooperWhizBang caliber with at least 40-50 lbs of recoil to bring out that Rambo feeling.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

That is why I ordered a 338 Federal AI reamer.

Sure don't mean to be a stick in the mud but why? What are your expected gains? The AI version of the 243 & 260 add very little if any gain over the parent.

I'm sure if I was going to improve the 338Fed, I'd just add 0.020" to the Bullet diameter.

I wonder if it will become the 'hit' that the 9mm Federal pistol cartridge became? Don't remember it? It was another Federal brainstorm that puked.

For those that own a Model 99 Savage and want to rebarrel it for elk hunting the .338 federal is as good as they can get.....for everyone else the 30-06 case wins easily!

I've had my 'Hill Country Rifles' built 338 Fed for a little while now. I plan to take it to BC for black bear next month.....I'll let you know how it goes! Unless I royally screw up I bet there will be one dead black bear at the end of it all. I have settled on a max load of 46.0gr of RL-15 under a 210 Partition. It shoots consistant 3/4" groups. On my next trip to my range I will have my chronograph so I can get a better idea of where my velocity is.

Did I need this caliber.....ummmm, no. I have plenty of rifles that can cover everything from mice to ele's. One reason I had this rifle built was because it was previously chambered in a round that I thought I had to have and in a short time the novelty/newness wore off. So essentially I had a rifle sitting in the safe that I would never use. Secondly, a gunwriter buddy of mine steered me in the direction of the 338...he said, 'it hammers the hell outta everything' or something along those lines.......well so does my 375! But I like the size and weight of this rifle with a 20" barrel.

Anyway, I am still in the honeymoon stage with this rifle.....will it be a long term relationship?....who knows!!

Improve by .020, perhaps, but is it relevant in the field? Discernable? Me thinks not. I put both the 338 and 35 cal above 30 and under bores, on large game, but think there would be little gained on either. Yes, re: comment, Kevlar/Rambo.......I guess we all like different flavors, whether it's baskin robins 39 flavors or ctg's.

I choose what can hammer game, w/o hammering my shoulder, and so what if larger cartridges hit harder or fly faster, IF what I am toting does not beat me up, and when I steer the proper bullet into vitals, I reach my endpoint just as well? Magnums etc are not for me for 99% of my hunting NEEDS, to others that may differ.

I agree what that gunwriter said, I think the results on game will speak loud and clear, DEAD right there, or very quickly with decent shot placement, and that round meshes well with compact rifles.

True re: Vanguard, Heck if Howa made a 338-06 instead of the Win Mag, I'd buy one, Well made and affordable. I can say that the game I took with my 338-06 would have fallen just as well and quickly with the 338 federal. If you need reach over 300 yds, or game is LARGE bears or other large dangerous game in Africa, then you NEED something larger, but I contend my gut tells me anything the 30-06 does up to 300 yds, this 338 Federal will kill just as well, and in a slightly more compact package, if that is a preference, and to me it is. I am looking forward to hearing actual field reports from post mortem.

Re; ammo prices, it is all getting much higher and no end in sight that I see, war, inflation, and perhaps some greed involved. Stockpiling components and ammo made be like money in the bank and not a bad investment considering the rate of price hikes, if they continue.

I can tell you I have alot of respect for some writers, not so much for others. When I see references from W V Zwolle, and Bob Hagel, when they have access to ANY choice, it gets my attention. As Zwolle says, he will not write about something if he does not believe in it. Good Ole John Wooters long ago said that his 3 or 4 choices in rifles for everything were 22LR, 223, 308 and 338 Win Mag, that was before the 338-06 or Federal. Well, perhaps blending the 338 bore and 308 case is a happy medium of killing power and recoil for a great majority of hunters in this country. Why not?

Look at Elmer Keith's top recommendations, a 338 bore was one of them. You give up some range over the larger cases, but one must ask yourself, do I REALLY need to have that range capability?

How many times have you seen first hand or heard reputable reports of guys missing or wounding game shot at ranges extending much beyond 200-300 yards? I say it happens more often from what I have seen in my area, then the game that is dropped that far or futher. Others may see different results in other parts of the country.

That said, it is an INTERESTING paradox, old Craig Boddington promoted the large 30 cal magnums, 8mm Rem Mag and other large magnums for so long as if they were NECESSARY or REQUIRED to do the deed, and now he writes about how effective the 'pop gun' 7mm-08 was in Africa when hit with 140 premium bullets (quite possibly factory Federal-slower than my loads) when shot by his daughter, including Kudu and possibly Eland and many other animals. Now if the 7mm on that case is effective, I have ZERO doubt how a 338 bullet would perform. Having heard zebra run when hit by 7mm Magnums, I wonder when hit with a slower heavier slug what might differ in time to collapse? It would be interesting. I am sure many others drop on the spot, but it seems some reports on harder to kill game like Elk, Zebra, various African game can withstand more and stay on their feet longer when hit. Perhaps longer heavier bullets would always tend to perform better even at moderate speeds, but a slower heavier mid bore slug may also kill better than small bores.....when it comes to larger game. The 338 Federal is MORE than needed for Whitetail, and other deer, but it also adds in my mind, more confidence when firing upon black bear, elk, and moose. I think it all boils down to this, putting the same bullet in front of more powder may EXTEND the range, but to see a noticeable increase in game killing power on large game, I think increasing bore size and weight vs just increasing speed on small bores is meaningful. A 338 win mag IS better, IF you are shooting over 300 yds. 99% of my hunting is not that far, and IF I were in timber after elk, or even stalking moose, I'd prefer a BLR or short carbine bolt in a 338 Federal (and HOT CORE-I could be happy with a 358 also-with my loads), versus toting a longer barrelled and likely heavier overall weapon. Black bear seemed to most often be taken over bait up close so again LONG range is not an issue.

Now if I were glassing a meadow, waiting for an elk to come to a water hole at 500 yds, I want something really capable of hitting and performing that far out, but I guess there are 50 cal BMG's for some guys that want them. Other large cases too, but I'd rather stalk and enjoy the hunt more, as I can tell you when I had an elk come by at 30 yds eyeballing me, THAT was exciting, and I was toting a 708 with 139 and that elk WOULD be dead if it had been a 4x4 and not a 3x3 w/tines less than 5". It was not legal, but I in no way EVER felt underarmed. Had a chance at a cow elk, but I had no tag, but felt SURE my 338-06 w/225 PT would have flattened her, at 100 yds in timber....just as a 338 federal could have done with a 210 pt or 185x bullet.

This new round may not turn everyone's crank and I can except that, but it's no BB gun my friends, not by any stretch. So many other rounds will KILL game fine, but I want my game to drop sooner than later, and I believe this round is very capable. If I am wrong, then by next season, I expect to hear NUMBEROUS reports contradicting my believe, but ask yourself, would Federal stick their neck on the line, and market something if they had not REALLY did their homework? They would quite possibly have more to lose if they were wrong, if they lost loyal consumers. Just as Sako put their name on endorsing it by chambering it first in their rifles. I have complete faith, and I do respect others opinions, or choices to use something else.

I love the 6mm BR and 6.5's in moderate size cases for targets and varmints to deer, but when hunting larger than deer a 338 is my first choice in bore size, and for ME, a magnum case is often never needed and certainly never preferred for reasons do to recoil/shootability. Now on deer, I would not feel overgunned, nor under 'ranged' where I hunt if carrying a 338 Federal, and I expect that round to become a CHOICE round by deer hunters that give them a try, among hunters after larger game.

To those that are not 'excited' about speeds under 2800 or 3000 fps, I understand, but that does not tell the whole story.

Thanks for hearing my opinions, and sharing yours.

Just to make a point clear....I have not and will not shoot black bears over a bait. I'm going with the same outfitter in BC that I used about 4 years ago......It's all spot-n-stalk. After having done it by spot-n-stalk I refuse to hunt over bait. I may find myself in a position to have to make a 200-250 yard shot and I am comfortable with that.

Now that sounds sporting, but I won't judge how others choose to hunt, I myself have my opinions as we all do, but I wish for all game to be taken cleanly/quickly however hunted in all aspects.

I would like to hear more about your rifle/components/specs......I would imagine that RL15 load is a good one for that weight, sounds like you loaded it up to a good level. It should serve you well.

Here's the link to the rifle I just had built by Alberta Tactical Rifle.

This one is a 338 Federal, with a Lilja barrel, blueprinted and trued with a Badger Ordnance bolt knob installed also. It started out life as the 308 win VS from Remington. I like heavy barrels so I kept the varmint contour but had it cut down to 24" instead of 26". The 'smith managed a 3/8" group at 100 yards with factory 180gr accubonds, but with his scope.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t302/hannahcarlo/338federal.jpg

Beretta,

with that name you own a revolver! Ha, just kidding, NICE gun, what caliber? Also, the way that gun is set up, you will be set, IF you learn the trajectory, I think a 400 yd shot on deer is not out of question, with a bullet that will expand, and if that 180 is that accurate, and I am sure it will expand, hey, that weight in 357 revolvers take deer up to 100 yds or so, with shot placement, and at a MV of say 1200 fps or so? So, that 338 bore, if you assume you get some expansion, it will do deer a good ways out. I KNOW what a 200 gr Ballisti tip does out of a 338-06 and prefer that weight in larger capacity cases for downrange retention, and if you reload, you might get good results as well, also a Hornady plain jane core/cup spitzer should do well on deer sized game. I think you are very happy with your new rifle, esp. anytime you get that kind of accuracy, and achieved with factory ammo. It should do no worse with good handloads! Thanks for sharing.

I'm kind of shocked you got that link, I thought I had deleted the second one since it was my whole album. I was trying to post a different pic. Oh well, live and learn and try again.

Here is the one I thought I was posting. Sorry for the mess up.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t302/hannahcarlo/338federal1.jpg

6.5BR,

By the way, that's a S&W 686-3 converted for PPC competition. It's a BARSTO barrel, Aristocrat 3 position site, trigger overtravel, timing job etc... The barrel is made to shoot primarily 148gr HBWC so I've never tried anything else. Off of a machine rest, it takes the X out of the Xring out of a B27 target at 50 yards with only a couple of rounds. I'm not that good mind you!

Sorry for the off topic post!

Thanks for sharing, NICE work, nice revolver.