I was using my handy Speer manual the other day and noticed that the industry max pressure for this round is 50,000 CUP. So, I put my CZ 527 through a reloading exercise in my lab, taking the loads up gradually above the 42,000 CUP that most data respects due to theSKS ans AK actions out there.

The surprise is that Hornady 150 gr BTSPs can be safely driven to 2450 fps usung Hodgdon's Lil Gun. These fit the magazine and cycle fine, delivering 2000 FPE at the muzzle and 1200 at 300 yds. Lil Gun is the key as it only takes 24 grs to do this....however, it does not like a crimp, unless you use the .311 expander.

given the light recoil and the fact that it uses half the powder of a 243, I'd say this is a whale of a deer rifle. Wow...its even a better battle rifle...

The 7.62x39 shoot's real nice in a bolt gun with a 22" barrel. I have Mexican Mauser in 7.62x39, and get 2550fps from the cheap Russian 123gr loads, it makes a nice plinker, and you can actually shoot nice groups with it. Unlike a AK or SKS.

Does the Speer manual list Lil'Gun for this cartridge?

Sabot, thanks for the info! I just obtained a CZ 527 carbine in 7.62X39, and so far have only shot my heavy bullet load in it for 1.5" 3-shot groups @ 100 yards. This load consists of 28.5 grains of H335 and the Speer 180-grain .311" RN bullet. I chronographed this load years ago from a Mini 30 @ 1980 FPS, but have not chronographed it out of the CZ, which has a .311" bore as opposed to the .308" of the Mini 30 (which was such a poor shooter that I ditched it!!)



Speer tells me their .311 180 RN is too tough to expand at the velocity level possible from the 7.62X39mm, so I am looking for a decent bullet that I can shoot at a little higher velocity, and it seems your load might just be the ticket....



Now, thoe bullets you used - were they .311's or .308's??

I will definitely try working up a L'il Gun load with the 150-grain bullets like you did to see how much accuracy I can get from them. Obviously, this is very definitely better than a flat-nose .30-30 150-grain load!!



I really like that neat little CZ!! May have to get one in .221 Fireball or .223 also!

The bullets were 308's and they have very little bearing surface.

Also, use NEW BRASS, as something about even once fired brass seems to raise the pressures of Lil'gun a lot. My theory is that the dark interior surface raises pressure, while the shiny brass does not.

For .310 and .311 125 grainers, note that once you go to 50,000 CUP in this round you get into H110 and H4227 territory. About 26 grs of either will get you 2620 to 2650 fps a safe pressure.

The HDY 85 gr .312 pistol XTPs do 3200 fps with 30 grs of H110...I cut back to 12.5 grs of Longshot with this bullet at 2250 fps for an incredible 0.55 MOA groups at 100 yds. This is probably the cheapest and best varmint round to 150 yds in the world. Think of it as a very accurate 22 Hornet with 85 grain impact authority. Even though it is just under 1000 FPE, it makes the 223 look like a pop gun when you flip a 12 lb groundhog. These xtps at that velocity with a 1 in 10 twist are devastating.

Is the mini-30 rated up to that 50,000 CUP or should it be kept down to around that 42,000? That would be very intriguing, especially with 150 grain hornady flat bases!

NH_Hunter

I have pushed Albainian SKSs [surely the worst p.o.s.'s ever made in this chambering] until the primers fall out, and no change in headspace.



30.2 gr H335 and 189 gr cast GC is a mild load.

22.5 gr W296 and 180 gr Sierra .311 is way too hot.



I will try some LIL'GUN next time out.

Sabot, you are exactly right about 7.62.39. I have a Sako with a .308 barrel and favor the 130 sierra singleshot pistol bullets for deer. By the way for .310 barrels, Barnaul bulk 123 grain soft points shoot very well. Thanks for starting a great thread. ned

When I last owned a 7.62X39 my go to powder was Accurate 1680. Nothing else could match the velocity that could be achieved with it before running out of case capacity or showing pressure signs. This powder is a remake of the old Winchester 680 which C.E. Harris wrote about in an American Rifleman article about the 7.62. My test bed was a custom Sako with a 20" barrel.

Accurate data is available at their website.
AA 1680 20.3 starting 22.5 max. with 150 grain bullets.

Gabe

Good post Sabot,
Have you loaded the 123/125 gr bullets with lil-gun?
Just brought a Mini-30 and fully bedded it and it now shoots 3moa with Chinese amo.
If 24gr lil-gun pushes a 150 @2450 what would the smaller ones fly at?
Anyone know the pressure limits of a mini-30?

Regards Milosmate

I thought, "Mini 14 in New Zealand?"
but there it is:
http://www.police.govt.nz/service/firearms/approved.php?letter=R

If I had a mini 14, I would overload it until the extractor groove expanded, but then, I don't.

It may be worth your time to try H322 in your 150 grain 7.62X39 loads. H322's burning rate is about as slow as you can go with the little cartridge but a maximum charge of it gave the best results that I ever achieved with an SKS.

My SKS shot 5" groups at 100 yards with the typical Chinese 123 grain ammo. H322 with the 150 grain .311 diameter Sierra spitzer closed the groups to 2". I loaded the cartridges long,.. just short enough to fit into the magazine.

Thanks for the info Fazak, will give it a try when I get some dies.

Clark you are well informed, its the Aussies that had there semi auto's taken off them, hasn't happended here YET!

Regards Milosmate

Everyone has been telling how nice NZ is for 31 years.
I am too old and too many roots to immagrate now.

Anyway, I tried LIL'GUN in 7.62x39mm:

Yugo SKS with bayonet and grenade launcher removed. A ball point pen spring on sear / mag release, glass bedding on the 4 places is says to on the internet. Choate scope mount drilled and tapped. Leupold 13x40x40.
New RP brass, CCI 400 small rifle primer. Hornady .311 150 gr. Spire, 2.740" w/ Sinclair bullet comparitor, gas system set on grenade and action operated as a single shot straight pull
a) 20 gr. LIL'GUN cratered primer
b) 20 gr. LIL'GUN pierced primer
c) 18 gr. LIL'GUN, primer bulged
d) 16 gr. LIL'GUN, bulged primer

Sabot, I am not doing as well as you, and per my calculations the small primer brass should go ~ 14 kpsi more than large primer brass.

Maybe my rifle has a large firing pin hole.
Maybe my seating is too long.

Clark,
You could come for a holiday instead!

Glad you posted your findings, maybe Sabot can shead some light on this!!

Milosmate

I agree completely and enthusiastically about the Barnaul ammo. It clocks a very consistent 2550 fps out of my CZ 527 and is very accurate. The SP and HP versions are legitimate hunting rounds, but note that the SPs get beat up in a semi-auto.

The HPs expand more slowly than the SPs and offer more penetration, which is a good thing in this round with 123 gr bullets. At $1.88 per 25, this is as good as it gets...