I am trying to match the the powder that Hornaday uses in its light mag 165 30\06 does anyone know. Also when I pulled the bullet I noticed that the powder was clumpy and looked like it had case lube mixed in the powder. What process would they be using to wet the powder. The powder had to be picked out of the case to weight.

Question:
I am trying to match the the powder that Hornaday uses in its light mag 165 30\06 does anyone know. Also when I pulled the bullet I noticed that the powder was clumpy and looked like it had case lube mixed in the powder. What process would they be using to wet the powder. The powder had to be picked out of the case to weight.

Choices:
xxx

 

There's nothing to vote on in the poll. Hornady will tell you they're not using a powder that's available across the counter in a canister. They are quite secretive about their process for getting it all packed in there. There are lots of good loads you can come up with for the .30-06. I don't see any particular urgency about duplicating the Light Magnum.

The powder is poured into the case in a gel form, you're never going to find the combo/recipe. Jay

H-414 will allow you to duplicate their performance

What Major Caliber is saying, is probably that HE has had success duplicating Hornady Light Magnum velocities with H-414. It would probably be somewhat irresponsible to suggest that anybody should be able to use the same loads, or obtain the same results. Perhaps it will work for you, and perhaps it won't. Use safe reloading practices...

- mike

hi guys
visit norma's site http://www.norma.cc . they have a new high energy powder called norma URP which duplicate federal's HE loadings .
good hunt&cheers
yes

OK, you're going to get 3015fps out of 56.5grs. H414, 59grs. H4350 will push them faster than that(H414). Bullshit.

IMR 4350 is a pretty good performing 30-06 power for bullets of 165 Gr. and up. When I loaded for my uncle that's all I used.

Thanx to all that answered, I have not had problems finding a load that would work good with the 30\06 but just have not been able to duplicate the speed of the light magnums without generating too much pressure. Therefore, I figured that there had to be a powder out there that would duplicate it or possibly a process with existing powders that would.

Use slow burning powders, such as Re22 or Re25 and be willing to tap/pack the powder and powder compress with your seated bullet. You can do even BETTER than Federal High Energy or Hornady Light Mag velocities.

Yes, how do you get to the ENGLISH version of the Norma Powder site?

If your not happy with your -06, you have too options, buy Hornady light mag ammo, or better yet, just load a 300 magnum.

It is more than foolish to willy nilly try and jack up velocities in a given chambering by loading hotter than published loading manuals indicate, and more foolish still using powders that do not have published loads.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
Use slow burning powders, such as Re22 or Re25 and be willing to tap/pack the powder and powder compress with your seated bullet. You can do even BETTER than Federal High Energy or Hornady Light Mag velocities.

Yes, how do you get to the ENGLISH version of the Norma Powder site?

This is hitting the secret very closely.....serious compaction is the secret.....and IMO it's not worth it.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
If your not happy with your -06, you have too options, buy Hornady light mag ammo, or better yet, just load a 300 magnum.

It is more than foolish to willy nilly try and jack up velocities in a given chambering by loading hotter than published loading manuals indicate, and more foolish still using powders that do not have published loads.

Or even better get a 300 WBY!

I certainly agree with Major Caliber on rifle Choices I really like the 300mag, however, my hunting partner only has one rifle and has been shooting the Hornaday light mag ammo and I thought I could save him some money and maybe accurracy and load up a custom fast load. However, after tearing down one of Hornadays bullets I found that there was 65.2 grains of some wet ball like powder that was clumped and packed so tightly that the powder would not come out without picking it out. That is as you know way over any published max loads in any handloading book. Therefore, I could not cross reference any loads to interpolate the powder. My incorrect assumption was that since Hornaday in its sixth addition recommends Varget Powder but not published at the speeds of light mag ammo that light mags were simply Varget at Max load plus a couple of grains. I was so wrong. Varget was 46grains max, there is no way twenty grains could be added without blowing up the gun, or even fit in the case. The slower burning RL22 may do the trick but I will have to be very carefull working up the loads and checking for pressure signs.

300, You want to go fast, just laod them Hornadys with 59grs. H4350 and be done with it. BTW, anyone ever tell you, speed is not important. One of my buddies whom I reload for has been killing elk left and right with the same 165IB loaded with 57.5grs. H4350, vel. right around 2800fps, all but one bullet didn't make it all the way thru out of 6 shots. Jay

Jay, I agree, shot placement is more important than speed, and part of this quest for powder identification is simply that there is a secret out there that I have no knowledge of.The light mags produce speed with a medium weight bullet with out generating too much pressure, with a powder and process that is unknown.

quote:

Originally posted by 300win:
Jay, I agree, shot placement is more important than speed, and part of this quest for powder identification is simply that there is a secret out there that I have no knowledge of.The light mags produce speed with a medium weight bullet with out generating too much pressure, with a powder and process that is unknown.

Understand. Read an article in Gun&Ammo few years ago about the light mags, they did the same thing you did, had to pick the powder out and then they tried to put it back in to no avail, wouldn't fit. It's a special powder/gel that like you said, gives alot of speed without alot of pressure. jay

I do recall in Gun Digest or the like, that an author used a Rem 700 22" and developed loads that pushed a 165 at 3000 and he was using ball powder, I think W760, but H414 is often used in place of it.

It should be doable but I would work up watching pressure signs.

Jay's comments are nice to hear, complete pass through on 5 or 6 shots at 2800. Less velocity enhances penetration and on large game, 100-200 fps amounts to VERY little difference in trajectory to 400 yards or so in the field.

It will not affect any significant degree of placing the bullet, nor make a difference on kill or not.

If trajectory is what you want, a 150 might be slightly flatter until you get to extreme range.

Accuracy needed at 300-400 yards is all else equal as important as speed, as some loads can really open up down range if you might not hit where you want consistently to make it worthwhile.

I chase accuracy with velocity, but never choose max speed without good accuracy.

Ok, why?
I am no fan of 30 cal magnums but if you want their velocity then buy one!
I can not understand why some folks want to try to turn their 06's, which are perfectly fine for almost anything around my area anyway, into 300 Wby's! I've run into a couple of "reloaders" out at the local range that scare the crap out of me with what they're sticking into an 06 sized case.

Ackley -
Re: English, click on the British flag in the upper portion of the display.

Before you get to out there, fire a load of light mag across a chrony and see what speed it actually shoots at. Although I don't have much experience with the light mag ammo, it is not uncommon to see factory velocities 50-100fps slower than published. It seems as though they use a 26" test barrel to establish those velocities. At any rate, grab a reloading manual for the bullet you want to use, look for the powder with the highest velocity, your friend may not notice much of a difference except in the pocket-book.

John

Is Norma URP available in the states?

I can tell you that "M98" is loading Norma URP in the the standard 30/06 (24" barrel) to over 2900 fps with 180 gr. NPTs, and his ballistics lab, pressure gun is reading 63,000 PSI - WOW!!

This Norma URP might be SUPER! How do we get it or its equivalent. You know Re22=Norma MRP and Re25=Norma MRP-2. Norma URP=??

What powder is in ANY factory load?? Only the factory knows for sure, and sometimes I wonder about THEM!!

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
Is Norma URP available in the states?

I can tell you that "M98" is loading Norma URP in the the standard 30/06 (24" barrel) to over 2900 fps with 180 gr. NPTs, and his ballistics lab, pressure gun is reading 63,000 PSI - WOW!!

This Norma URP might be SUPER! How do we get it or its equivalent. You know Re22=Norma MRP and Re25=Norma MRP-2. Norma URP=??

What the hell is Norma URP? The former city marshal of Tombstone??

I don't think ANY Norma powders are currently available in the U.S. Too bad, too, because I have a bunch of good MRP loads.......

quote:

Originally posted by yes:
hi guys
visit norma's site http://www.norma.cc . they have a new high energy powder called norma URP which duplicate federal's HE loadings .
good hunt&cheers
yes

Well, I went and looked, and even the .338/.378's slowest powder was listed as MRP2-no URP!

Hi
Norma URP/universal rifle powder) has a burning rate between h414 and 4350 ,but with much higher energu it is best for 3006 and medium seize cases, but if you want to reload a overbored caliber like magnum 30 calibers ,then you may need MRP or MRP2.
regards
yes

quote:

Originally posted by HunterMontana:
Ok, why?
I am no fan of 30 cal magnums but if you want their velocity then buy one!
I can not understand why some folks want to try to turn their 06's, which are perfectly fine for almost anything around my area anyway, into 300 Wby's! I've run into a couple of "reloaders" out at the local range that scare the crap out of me with what they're sticking into an 06 sized case.

I guess you must scare easily. Don't get mad. Just bear with me. Take current 30-06 ammo, I used the Winchester 180 gr. Silvertips I had on hand, and run them over a chronograph. If you have access to rifles with 22,24 and 26 inch barrels that's even better.
My point is, I did just that using a Remington 700 (22") custom 98 Mauser (24") and two Ruger #1Bs (26") to do just that. Ammo was Winchester 180 gr. Silvertips. Tne Remington strained to pass 2600 FPS. (2610 FPS average) The mauser was closer to 2635 topes with 2625 being the averge velocity. The two Rugers did an average of 2650 FPS between the pair. Nowhere near the advertised 2700 FPS.
Now consider this. None of the factories load the 30-06 to anywhere near it's full potential.
Pick any one of the modern rifles made today, let's use a Remington 700 to keep it simple, although any of the others will do. That rifle is made in many calibers ranging fromm .223 Rem to the massive ultramags. Those ultra mags are loaded to around the 63K-65K level in pressure. So, if that rifle can be used at that pressure level safely, why can't one shoot th 30-06 loaded to that same pressure level with just as much safety? Does Remington, or Winchester, Ruger etc make rifles in 30-06 using weaker materials that for the super magnums? I think not. The bolt thrust alone from a 30-06 case will be less than from any of the magnum rounds.
FWIW, the test was done in the middle of an Arizona summer with the temperature ranging from about 100 to 105 degrees as the day wore on. I also shot some Winchester 180 gr. Silvertip ammo I had for my .308 Win. at the same time and it gave 2630 FPS.
It is my contention that not only is the 30-06 not loaded to it's full potential, but has been even further downloaded by the factories due to concerns by the liablity lawyers and older rifles.
The fact that the round still does the job after being reduced even more shows what a good round it is and why it has been able to stick around for 100 years. The fact that it can be loaded to a higher level in safety means one has to experiment carefully to find where they need to go.
I'd almost be willing to bet that the people who work up the loads for the manuals have worked up full potential loads for the 30-06 for their own personal use. I for one would sure love to see that data. I know that most likely, you and I never will.
Paul B.

Prudent and safe handloads can produce 2800'/sec with a 180 grain bullet in the 30-06 with a 22" barrel.

Seriously...if that's not enough you really should think about a much larger caliber. It's why they made the .338 mags

I don't know about factory ammo being slow,since I don't buy ,I handload,I bummed one Winchester 180 PP.It went 2671 out of my 1980 M-700 with it's 22" barrel.That's sure is close to 2700,in fact it surprised me.

quote:

Originally posted by 300win:
What powder hornaday using 30/06 light mag IB

smokeless.

Sorry, couldn't help it.

But, I do agree with the whole velocity thing. I must be a lone wolf on this. I could care less about velocity in any rifle I own. I shoot for accuracy then learn the trajectory.

My ultra WUS load for my 30.06 is only 55.0grains of H4350 behind a 168 TSX. To date it's dumped everything I shot with it on the spot with all bullets passing through. But it shoots a consistent .4.

I have no problem saving several grains of powder in all of my ammo. My brother's first rifle, a 270 Ruger light wt. was shooting 150 btips at the minimum charge of IMR4350 and I think velocity was around 2600fps. I cannot begin to tell you how many deer he killed with that load.

quote:

Originally posted by 6.5BR:
I do recall in Gun Digest or the like, that an author used a Rem 700 22" and developed loads that pushed a 165 at 3000 and he was using ball powder, I think W760, but H414 is often used in place of it.

Nosler's #5 handbook 63.0grs of RL22 will get you 3002fps with a 165gr bullet... at a 105%
loading density.

Nosler's fastest load with a 150gr bullet is 3000fps, and that with 59.0gr of IMR4350

It hardy makes sense to load 150's when you can drive 165's just as fast.

I simply stopped loading 150gr Noslers and only load 165's...

All that being said I shoot a lot of 165gr ballistic tips out of my pig rifle (a Model 74 semi-auto) at 2700fps with 49.5grs of IMR4064.

I doubt they'd be any less lethal on white tails...

AllanD

Paul, my results are opposite yours.

I get around 2685 fps with federal classic and winchester 180g powerpoint loads in my 22" barreled .30-06's.

Winchester 180grain factory powerpoint loads in my .308win get 2465 fps in a 20" barrel and 2490 fps in a 22" barrel.

According to my data it is the 308 win rounds that are loaded short of their potential.

I think you will find you can match light magnum velocities with VVN550 in a 30-06.

Here are some of my chronographed 30/06 loads from a Winchester M-70 Featherweight with a 22" barrel. Federal 180 grain Nosler Partition High Energy loads do 2800fps out of this rifle and it is pretty hard to beat this factory load for all around hunting load.

Rifle Bullet Powder Charge Weight Velocity (fps) OAL Remarks


WIN. M-70 165 Northfork H-414 59.5grs. 2888fps 3.30" rifle sighted in for this load: zero@100 yards

WIN. M-70 165 GR. FAILSAFE RL-22 63.0grs 2667fps 3.24" <1" @ 100 YARDS; SD=12; FED#215

WIN. M-70 180 GR. NOSLER PART. RL-22 61.0grs 2695fps <1" @ 100 YARDS; FED#210

WIN. M-70 200 GR. NOSLER PART. H-4831 59.0grs 2550fps ACCURATE; FED#215

WIN. M-70 165 Northfork H-414 59.5grs 2888fps 3.305" WW-cases; Fed.#210
165 Northfork H-414 59.0grs 2867fps
165 Northfork H-414 58.5grs 2854fps
165 Northfork H-414 58.0grs 2826fps
165 Northfork H-414 57.5grs 2835fps

WIN. M-70 165 Northfork IMR-4350 59.5grs 2807fps 3.305" WW-cases; Fed.#210
165 Northfork IMR-4350 59.0grs 2781fps
165 Northfork IMR-4350 58.5grs 2752fps
165 Northfork IMR-4350 58.0grs 2742fps
165 Northfork IMR-4350 57.5grs 2720fps

WIN. M-70 165 Northfork RL-22 63.0grs 2730fps 3.305" WW-cases; Fed.#210
165 Northfork RL-22 62.5grs 2693fps
165 Northfork RL-22 62.0grs 2671fps
165 Northfork RL-22 61.5grs 2689fps