quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
No, Brad, they sure as hell aren't.

I'll take that to mean you're an Armchair Expert...

quote:

Originally posted by Don Fischer:

quote:

First, you attacked everyone who gave a different answer than the one you were eventually going to get around to giving, after venting your obviously full-up spleen

mrlexma I believe that you are in error. It's not his spleen that's full, it's his bladder! Or then it could be his depends!

That's the way they do things over at 24 hour campfire! And they say we are uncivilized over here? And yes, premium bullets have changed the landscape of arguement some. Theoretically I can kill an
elk with a sewing needle at 10,000 fps!

A) I have absolutely no experience with a 25.06 on elk.

B) My chairs do not have arms, so I cannot fall into the 'armchair expert' categorie.

C) I have never witnessed an elk killed with a 25.06 (as far as I can remember).

D) 100% of my elk kills are archery, so I guess that means I have no idea just how well my 270, 30.06, 7RemMag, or 300 RUM would do since I have no personal accounts.

BUT, I do know ONE guy that STATED to me that he killed an elk in Colorado with his 25.06 at 50 yards with btips. He said, "I was kind of stunned after the first shot. The elk just stood there like nothing happened. So I emptied the other shells into him and he ran off. We found him about 300 yards down in the ravine."

This is a guy that goes to the nearest sporting goods store, buys ammo the day before the season starts, sights in, and goes hunting with whatever bullet shoots 'good enough' at 100 yards. His only concern was bullet weight.

Would the result have been any different with a better bullet, probably, but it is still speculation isn't it?

quote:

Would you take a shot at an elk (within 300 yards) with the .25-06 loaded with a premium bullet?

The question is pretty clear. Would YOU....my answer is NO. And this is why:

quote:

I do have a 300WSM and I have an Encore barrel in 7mmRemMag.

IMO, there are 2 better choices right there. It is obvious the 25.06 will kill an elk, but why not throw all you can at it with another rifle you own?

Just take the 300WSM out with 180 grainers in it. 25-06 is a bit light in comparison.

Since this thread won't die I'll add my 2 bits worth, and yes, that is more than 2 cents for you youngsters.
Only a fool would argue that a high power center fire rifle isn't deadly, but that doesn't make a .223 an elk rifle, nor does it make the .375 a great varminter. Having hunted about everything that crawls, walks, slithers, or flies, I have to tell you that most elk I've seen killed succumbed to that century old weakling known as the 30-06. As for its younger, smaller brother the 25-06, I can't say I've seen it kill anything larger than deer, but I will say that I've seen the crusty old Roberts do in a few. Dead elk you betcha, the best choice, certainly not.
Now to the point: would I shoot an elk with the 25-06 loaded with premium projectiles if within 300 yards? No, I wouldn't
Having said that, I must admit I think the Roberts is more useful than the 25-06, or the 270. As for the man with one gun argument, we all know he should own a 30-06.

Brad,

I'll back ya up.. I agree with exactly what you say....

there may be more competent elk rounds than a 25/06, but that doesn't take away from that calibers ability to do the job...especially in the hands of a good shooter...

the bigger caliber guys always justify their reasoning by spouting off failure stories...most of which I would moreso blame on the shooter or just pisspoor luck in most instances...

I had a major failure on a large whitetail once with a 300 Win Mag, shooting a 200 grain Sierra BT from factory Federal Ammo... the deer was shot at 100 yds, and the blood in the snow had to have a diameter of better than 2 feet.... but it still got up and disappeared into a swamp...

so by the analogy put forth by many nathsayers here, that would prove that the 300 Win Mag with a 200 grain Sierra BT is not adequate to take a deer cleanly.....

To the guy that can SHOOT his 25/06.. I say take it, and make your shot count.... because many elk are shot with 338's each year that take off and are not found... does that mean a 338 isn't a capable elk round???? Nope.. means another shooter screwed up, with a rifle that he couldn't make a good shot with... so instead of blaming himself, he blames the rifle and the chambering and goes out and buys a bigger caliber for next elk season... when he evidently couldn't handle the last rifle he just had...

what did hunters use before the era of magazines and the internet and gun writers, to tell them that bigger is better.... especially what was big enough last season, won't be big enought THIS season, because some one came out with a bigger cannon, or a new trendier cannon...

I'd trust the average guy who carries a 25/06 to hunt elk than I would the average 300 or 338 rifle carrier...

I've owned three custom 25-06 rifles and all based on the 98 Mauser action and all have been good shooters.

I like 120 grain A-Frames for deer (although I more commonly shoot 120 Hornady HPs) and have used it on elk even though I have larger caliber rifles. I truly believe today's premium bullets give the smaller calibers a boost when it comes to big game. This is also true in the bigger calibers that a lighter weight bullet can do the job formerly reserved for heavier bullets.

The number of pro comments on the 257 Roberts is a positive sign but it's my experience that these rifles are usually owned by varminters that have a lot more practice with their rifle than most "once a year" big game hunters. This alone gives the edge for bullet placement as these folks are more likely to find the right place to shoot.

For those that believe they need a 338 magnum for elk, let them have at it. I'll put my faith in the shooter more so than the cartridge any day!

Seafire,

I think the key word in your post is SIERRA BT!

That says more than needed to many of us.

Hey guyz good morning to ya, we've had so far 24 people chime in and say yes and or no. There has been a total of 47 posts, now 48 about this but 24 total yes/no's.

If I read it right about 9 said no, about 12 said yes and a couple just answered without saying yes/no.

I am always curious about where the thoughts behind the answers came from and so I am gonna start another thread 25/06 elk pt 2 and look forward to reading your responses.

You've not been bashful on this thread so please do not be bashful on the new one.

Many thanks and make it your best day!

Mark D

To any and all I offended I apologize.

When a guy's tired and feeling cranky he should't post on these forums, that's a fact.

Guess I'm too practical. I like to hear what a guy has done and seen done, not what he surmises.

However, that's no excuse for bad manners.

Again, my apology.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
Brad,

I'll back ya up.. I agree with exactly what you say....

I'd trust the average guy who carries a 25/06 to hunt elk than I would the average 300 or 338 rifle carrier...

Where's the limit, John? The guy with the super velocity rifle use to be me. Again, that type of rifle is more prone to failure, and has, than a larger caliber, modest velocity, more forgiving rifle. Take the shooter out of the equation and discuss cartridge vs cartridge.

Everyone has a story to tell and they all should be considered on a thread such as this. I'm not a Magnum guy but when giving advise to the novishiates I would rather error on the side of too much gun rather than something marginal that might get them into trouble . roger

Would I take a shot at an elk out to a max of 300 yds with a .25-06 and a 115 or 120 gr premium slug? YES.

Would I be VERY careful to place that shot so all I had to shoot through was hide and ribs so as to pop both lungs? YES

If I was on a hunt with limited time to hunt, without the luxury of being able to pass on anything less than perfect, OR the possibility of encountering a MATURE bull of a lifetime, would I use a .25-06 with a premium slug? NO

FN in MT

I love the 25-06 as a cartridge and I've loved the two previous 25-06's I've had, but would I use a 25-06 on an elk
given the chance to shoot an elk?

No.

I own a perfectly good 7mmMag that simply has to do a better job on animals bigger than those I normally shoot
with my 25-06 and though I recently parted company with my (third and most recent) 338Mag, I will have another soon enough....
(though to be honest the 338 is part of my Maine Moose
fantasy and I waited until I knew I wasn't drawn to trade
it in)

As precise as I can be with my 25-06 I'm just not sure enough of terminal performance on an animal heavier than 200-odd lbs. certainly not with AOB=90deg +/-10deg or >130deg

AOB? Angle On the Bow
head-on = 0deg
Broadside = 90deg
and a "texas heart shot" = 180deg.

It is important to consider the animals aspect angle
as part of the firing solution.

And I have doubts about 25cal projectiles being able to penentrate/break the heavier shoulder bones of an elk, though a "Big 25" probably shoots enough flatter than
most other calibers (except 264Win 7mmMag with lighter bullets than the HBM will recommend) to make an intentional attack on the CNS (spine shot) a
less risky option than would otherwise be the case...

If you can hit a tennisball at a given range you can hit a vertabrae.

AllanD

Good Heavens! Just use a .30-06 with heavy bullets and be done with it!

You can pound nails w/ the butt of a screwdriver, gets the job done if you are carefull, but a hammer makes a better tool for driving nails.

My question is if a 100 gr x bullet at 3300 fps isn't "enough" for elk, how could any ethical sportsman hunt elk, deer, or any animal with a 100gr broadhead at 300 fps?

quote:

Originally posted by dsmit50:
My question is if a 100 gr x bullet at 3300 fps isn't "enough" for elk, how could any ethical sportsman hunt elk, deer, or any animal with a 100gr broadhead at 300 fps?

What a great question! Are there any great answers? roger

quote:

Originally posted by dsmit50:
My question is if a 100 gr x bullet at 3300 fps isn't "enough" for elk, how could any ethical sportsman hunt elk, deer, or any animal with a 100gr broadhead at 300 fps?

quote:

What a great question! Are there any great answers?

Sure. Killing occurs from hemorrhage with a broadhead, and doesn't have that 'shock' factor. I'd rather put a 100 grain broadhead in an elk over a small bullet any day. I've done it.

And, the 100 grain bullet isn't going 3300 fps at 300 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
Brad,

I'll back ya up.. I agree with exactly what you say....

I'd trust the average guy who carries a 25/06 to hunt elk than I would the average 300 or 338 rifle carrier...

Where's the limit, John? The guy with the super velocity rifle use to be me. Again, that type of rifle is more prone to failure, and has, than a larger caliber, modest velocity, more forgiving rifle. Take the shooter out of the equation and discuss cartridge vs cartridge.

Everyone has a story to tell and they all should be considered on a thread such as this. I'm not a Magnum guy but when giving advise to the novishiates I would rather error on the side of too much gun rather than something marginal that might get them into trouble . roger

Well Roge, regardless of what either you or I say... we can't take someone out of Rookie status..

I'd rather see good shot placement with a decent bullet.. I trust that more than bad shot placement with a premium bullet in a heavy caliber....

Most nimrods could shoot the 25/06 better than the 338... and therefore I think they are better off with it....

And I still think a good shot placement with a 25 caliber 100 grain or better bullet will take an elk down....they all have more damage than any Broadhead will ever do, and we don't tell bow hunters to give it up because they are undergunned...

just my opinion there old friend!

Fella, shoot a good quality bullet, only shoot if you know you'll hit what your aiming at, and remember you have limited penetration with a 100 to 115 gr bullet. It will work fine if you are responsible. Heck, if I was hunting deer, and came upon an elk with a tag in my pocket I'd use a 25-06. My peronal opinion is if you want a light kicking rifle for mixed bag, a .270 WCF with a premium 130 to 150gr would be a better barrel. Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
Most nimrods could shoot the 25/06 better than the 338... and therefore I think they are better off with it....

I think ANYONE can shoot a 25-06 better than they can shoot a 338Mag which is the entire point...

Bouncing tennis balls at 400yards with a 25-06 is fun. doing the same thing with a 30-06???

a 338Win?

AllanD

1. I think most people could learn to shoot most anything.
2. I think most people don't take the time, or make the effort to practice.

I think most poor performance on game is not the result of the gun, cartridge, or ammo. The question at hand is "Would YOU..."

If you are a competant rifleman the .25-06 is capable. The rifleman has to be as capable. So this question is purely subjective.

I don't reccomend this small of a caliber for anything but deer or smaller to people who are asking. If they're asking what works then they probably need something bigger and more forgiving. Personally I think the .338WM is probably about as perfect an Elk rifle as you'll find. It has enough range, and delivers a big bullet with authority. It's good for close shot's at a big bull busting out of it's bed, and affords enough range and power if making a stalk in more open country.

If a guy asks for a veristile cartridge I usually put them in the middle. ie: 280R and up to a .300 Mag of some sort. Most would be best served by an '06 or 7mm RM.

Being proficient with a .25-06 gives me the ability to take shots others shouldn't. However, I still reserve the right to make recommendations that vary from person to person. In most of these performance arguements, we are splitting hairs.

A .25-06 is enough, if the nut behind the trigger is well adjusted. Nate

quote:

Originally posted by dsmit50:
My question is if a 100 gr x bullet at 3300 fps isn't "enough" for elk, how could any ethical sportsman hunt elk, deer, or any animal with a 100gr broadhead at 300 fps?

I get so tired of hearing this comparison. A broadhead is a very good killer out to 50yds. I imagine at 50yds, most guys could brain or spine an elk w/ even a .22lr. The problem w/ the comparison is that most guys won't hunt to get to 50yds w/ a rifle of any caliber, (why, the scoped rifle can easily make a 300yd shot). Plus you are hunting during bow season, in camo, w/ very few hunters/pressure in the field. So they aren't the same, never will be. I'll bet the average bow hunter wounds far less game than an average rifle hunter. Most bow hunters practice, many rifle hunters do not.

To kinda put things in perspective, would you guy's that would use a 25-06 on elk use say, a 7x57 on grizzly bear? Elk are generally bigger than the bear although not as tuff to penetrate. But with the proper bullet I'm certain the 7x57 would work well. Hell some woman in Alaska was reported last year to have save her own life in a grizzly attack with a 38 spec.

There is one major difference in the bear and the elk; the bear might fight back. If that sway's your opinion, would you still use a 25-06 on elk if they fought back as convincingly as the bear? Seem's that to many hunter's choose their weapon's with a much different out look on cartridges when THEIR life hangs in the balance.

Doesn't the elk deserve the same concideration in death as the grizzly? Just a though!!

I'll answer the same way Don. It revolves around the situation I would think.
I'm sure the 7x57 would work, especially if the bullet was chosen carefully. The thing is I'd want more experience hunting Grizz before I'd make that choice. And in truth, I'd put myself in more with rookies when it comes to Grizz, and I'd carry a bigger more forgiving round that came highly recommended. Like the .338WM with 250gr Woodleighs. I'm a realist, I have a good idea of my limits. Nate

"Shot placement" is a key factor, went on elk trip in CO, guides there swear by 25-06 and less! If you can put the bullet where it needs to go.

It has a lot to do with your training and skill.A friend pointed out to his sons the comparative size of the 6mm bullet he used for elk and mule deer to the 300wm I was using.He was trained in the USMC sniper school and could call his shots .

It is kinda fun reading thru this thread... and remembering a year or so ago, I asked about experiences using a 223! to take elk with....

I got a lot of advice about picking a good bullet, opinions on picking the shot and making good shot placement etc....

I didn't get flamed once and there were no arguments going on over using a 223 for Elk....

However we move the subject up to a 25/06 and then there are arguments back and forth........

So one could gather if they didn't know nothing about firearms or hunting.. and were reading AR here... that 223 are fine for elk... but the 25/06 is undergunning for them...

We are a strange lot on here....

The near complete focus on bore and bullet weight rather than sectional density amazes me on this BBS of "serious" riflemen! A .30 cal 130 grain bullet? SD is a measure we can use to get a general idea of penetration potential relative to other bullets, now construction does indeed play a factor, and some types like the monometals do better than their SD's suggest. Still I think an SD of around .250 or more is a good idea and I like to see about 1500 ft/lbs at impact range regardless of caliber. So yes a .25-06 does have the goods, to a point and it is less than a .270 or a .30 cal. Then there are choices in those bores and larger that do not have the goods. Neither speed nor bullet diameter tell the whole story.

quote:

Originally posted by Planemech:
The near complete focus on bore and bullet weight rather than sectional density amazes me on this BBS of "serious" riflemen! A .30 cal 130 grain bullet? SD is a measure we can use to get a general idea of penetration potential relative to other bullets, now construction does indeed play a factor, and some types like the monometals do better than their SD's suggest. Still I think an SD of around .250 or more is a good idea and I like to see about 1500 ft/lbs at impact range regardless of caliber. So yes a .25-06 does have the goods, to a point and it is less than a .270 or a .30 cal. Then there are choices in those bores and larger that do not have the goods. Neither speed nor bullet diameter tell the whole story.

Just thought this could use repeating! I like to see people selecting bullets that have more SD and a decent BC, but I think SD is the more important of the two. Most game is taken at ranges where BC is of little concequence. Nate

I skipped a bunch of posts as this thread is getting rather long. But you mentioned getting another rifle, is that ever a bad thing ? Question ,is witch one ?
Inside 200 yards, I love my 45/70 shooting a 350 grain hornady flat point,
Out to 300 I love my whelen.
Both those rifles allways go with me elk hunting.
For longer range shooting, and I dont go much over 300 anyway, I usually take my .338 win, but I am thinking of my 7mmstw this year with a 160 grain acubond.
You would call me a liar if I told you how tightly it groups, (it,s a model 70 classic with a 3.5X10 leupold on it)
The vitals of a big bull at 350 yards mabye even 400 if I have a good rest is a big target
...tj3006