Did some shooting with my 30-06. It is a push feed mod 70.

Most every load I did seemed weak. But there were a couple that seemed like they might not be a complete waste of powder.

I worked my way up to these loads

200 TSX
58 R22----2323
58 H4831--2427
58 H1000--2295
54 H4350--2451

-----------------------------------------

220 partition

R22 57.5 = 2402 H4350 53 = 2427
H1000 61 = 2371
H4831 58 = 2412, 2390

-------------------------------------

180 core lokt

R22 62 = 2614
H4831 62 = 2668,2649
H4350 58 = 2651, 2698


------------------------------

165 TSX

R22 62 = 2657
H4350 58 = 2795, 2801
H4831 62 = 2742, 2729

the 4350 looks good

----------------------------
150 ballistic tip

H4350 62 = 2987


I am looking for feedback.

Is this typical of the 30-06?


These are all max loads in the loadbooks. Work up your own loads.

Off hand the velocities you are getting for the most part are lower than handbook published velocities for those loads. As I am sure you are aware bullet weight and powder charge by themselves do not determine the speed that those bullets will leave every rifle chambered for that cartridge.

The cause in your rifle can only be determuned by hands on performance. The variables are just too many. roger

Also loaded some barnes originals I got in plain cardbord box marked Fred N. Barnes

200 grain spitzers.

H1000--58 = 2215
R22 --55 = 2212
H4381--56 = 2361
H4350--54 = 2476

I loaded these for nostalgia I am not looking for max velocity out of these.

You don't think a 220 Partition going 2400 would kill somethin' ?
Or a 180 Core Lokt going 2650?

I would say good speed on the 220 grainer and okay on the 180's but its not the speed that kills, how was the accuracy?
My '06 is pushing 180 grain Sierra's under 2800 with MAX loads of IMR-4350 and pin point accurate.
Each rifle is its own problem but it doesn't sound like you are very far off, I wouldn't sweat the details (speed) if it is accurate.

There's not an animal that walks the planet that could survive a double lung from that 220 Partition load!

I shot a black bear with the 180 out of a 308 win at 220+ yards. And used the 165 barnes x at 2600 on a moose so I know they will kill.

Guess I just got the velocity thing in my head from my last two 30 cals the 300 win would do 3150 with 180's and 2900-3000 with 200's and my last 3 300 rums would shoot 200's at 3200 and 220's at 3050. These had 26" barrels though.

I do like the low recoil though. I fired about 70 rounds through this rifle today. It is a joy to shoot.

How long is your barrel?

Most '06's are furnished with a 22" barrel.
Most load books utilize a 24" barrel in their test action.

It has a 22" barrel.


I knew you guys would help me put this into perspective.

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:
I shot a black bear with the 180 out of a 308 win at 220+ yards. And used the 165 barnes x at 2600 on a moose so I know they will kill.

Guess I just got the velocity thing in my head from my last two 30 cals the 300 win would do 3150 with 180's and 2900-3000 with 200's and my last 3 300 rums would shoot 200's at 3200 and 220's at 3050. These had 26" barrels though.

I do like the low recoil though. I fired about 70 rounds through this rifle today. It is a joy to shoot.

In 30 caliber, 4 more inches of barrel and 15-20 more grains of powder for the same bullet weight is the most likely cause. Funny how that works.

59 gr of MRP behind 200 partitions gives me a bit over 2700fps from my 22" bbl 06 & Everything I hit with it seem to go right down.

Actually I find your velocities to be pretty average in comparison to what I have chronographed in the past. Perhaps slightly weak, but just a barrel to barrel variation... notig serious. I also would have to say: How do they shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:

In 30 caliber, 4 more inches of barrel and 15-20 more grains of powder for the same bullet weight is the most likely cause. Funny how that works.

I used 96 grains under a 200 bullet in the 300 ultra.

458Win,

Does the MRP powder fill most of the case?

My 200 TSX bullets are much longer than even 220 partitions. I need to keep the powder level to the bottom of the case neck.

Although barnes does list 56 grains MRP for the 200 X bullet. Barnes is the only ones that use MRP.

I still have room in the case with the partitions. Bob Hagle listed 60 grs. of MRP as tops but some of his loads were definately on the hot side.
59gr has worked great for me now for twenty five years.

I know sportsmans warehouse carries V O powders. The one in Wasilla will open soon. Think I'll have to give it a try.

Thanks.

Your loads may be a little slower than average for the charges but several look like they have potential: all of the 220 loads look promising, and the H4350 loads seem good with the 180's and 165's.
Accuracy should your next primary concern; component availability and cost might influence your choices.
Don't waste much sweat on trying to get another 100fps or so; it wont make any difference in results.

VV N550 and N560 consistently get near top velocity in the .30-06. Hodgdon's new hybrid powder due out next year (HV100, IIRC) looks like it will enable you to get another 100 fps out or so.

SAMMI standard test barrels for the .30-06 are 24". .30-06 military barrels ('03 Springfield, M1 Garand, BAR) all have 24" tubes. That's how it became the standard, I believe. All those post WWI Springfields that were sporterized.

I don't know what fired case water capacity your chamber produces? Trying several of your loads in QuickLOAD using volumes from my own '06 cases, the TSX load's predicted velocities were higher by up to 200 fps than your measurements. The only matching prediction was with the slower of your two 180 Core Lokt 4831 loads (and I had to sub in the Speer 180 grain SP, since I don't have the Core Lockt's bullet length). I also don't know your seating depth. All those factors change the result, as do bore dimensions. Nonetheless, I get a sense that your measurements are kind of wandering. I shouldn't see the 4831 prediction correct on one bullet and way off on the next.

Chronometers can be finicky. On the same day, firing one of my dad's .308's, my old Oehler 35P gave about 2500 fps for his target load, including a good match over the check screen and to the QuickLOAD prediction, while his Chrony insisted the same bullet was going 2700 fps. The problem is, how to calibrate your chronometer, assuming it is consistent in its error? Other than building a good ballistic pendulum, I don't know an absolute way.

IMR 4350 is the one. At least for speed and accuracy with 180s.

r miller
all brass differs in case volume because of its weight.my finding show winchester to weigh the least then remington followed by federal.
norma and lupa are to expensive i don''t use them at all. i weigh my brass on a digital scale then seperate them by 1 grain in weight. primers very in hot ness also .
h-4350 shows very good speed and imr 4350 is also very good with 165's and 180''s
are you measureing head expansion with non-magnums 5 thousands is max with magnums 7 thousands is max. i'm really not a fan of shorter factory barrels, the 30-06 should have a 24 inch pipe. my mauser custom has a 27.25 inch pipe,when i'm to old to carry it i''ll stand hunt with it .
regards

Barrels are funny sometimes. My 2 groove Springfield barrel which has been cut to 23 inches gets 2800 fps using 59.0 grains of H4831 uncut under a 180 grain Speer Hotcor. It also gets just under 3000 fps using 58.0 grains of IMR 4350 and the 165 grain Sierra BTHP. These are all sparked with the CCI 250 magnum primer in Remington brass. I'd say that somewhere in between mine and your results lies the average.

Don't forget you may be losing a bit of velocity to ambient temperature.....if you are shooting in the cold it does make a difference.

Cheers,

Dan

I was shooting out the window of my truck to keep the rifle and ammo warm. I believe sunday was a balmy 32 degrees.

Not sure where I might find Norma MRP powder. But I found a couple stores that did not have it.

Jjmp,

I believe you are confusing case head expansion with pressure ring expansion. Your numbers are about 10 times too big for case head expansion. After reading the Denton Bramwell reprint on RSI's web site, called PRE, CHE, RIP, I no longer have any faith in pressure ring expansion or casehead expansion as a standard pressure indicator. Physicist Bramwell shows how poor the correlation to measured pressure actually is. It is the 4th article down on the list here:

http://www.shootingsoftware.com/tech.htm

Stay safe,
Nick

Let's take another slant on it. You ain't gonna get 3000fps from a 30-06 and a 180gr bullet nor a 165 for that matter. If you are, you're gonna get in serious trouble sooner or later. And that extra 200fps or the 50fps you're worrying about now ain't gonna kill something a whole lot deader.
My 30-06 load for a 165 gives me less than 2800fps. I killed a whole bunch of stuff before I got to chrony it. When I found out what a slow-ball, doddering thing it was, I was so amazed that it got the job done that I've never changed it.

Stillbeeman,

I think you've hit on one of the secrets. A well-placed shot that is 5% slower than a poorly placed shot still stops the game better. I never load beyond what produces the tightest group. Since absolute maximum loads are generally a little hotter than that, it is also a way to avoid getting beyond what the gun will tolerate well.

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:
Did some shooting with my 30-06. It is a push feed mod 70.

Most every load I did seemed weak. But there were a couple that seemed like they might not be a complete waste of powder.

I worked my way up to these loads

200 TSX
58 R22----2323
58 H4831--2427
58 H1000--2295
54 H4350--2451

-----------------------------------------

220 partition

R22 57.5 = 2402 H4350 53 = 2427
H1000 61 = 2371
H4831 58 = 2412, 2390

-------------------------------------

180 core lokt

R22 62 = 2614
H4831 62 = 2668,2649
H4350 58 = 2651, 2698


------------------------------

165 TSX

R22 62 = 2657
H4350 58 = 2795, 2801
H4831 62 = 2742, 2729

the 4350 looks good

----------------------------
150 ballistic tip

H4350 62 = 2987


I am looking for feedback.

Is this typical of the 30-06?


These are all max loads in the loadbooks. Work up your own loads.

Maybe you have a "slow" barrel. I've owned two .30/'06's for the past ten years, a Heym M55/77 with a rifle under the 20-ga barrel, and a TC TCR with an '06 barrel. Both of these rifles deliver right at 2680 FPS @ 10' from the muzzle with 59 grains of H4831 using either the Sierra 200-grain PSPBT or the Nosler 200-grain Partition bullet.

Your 150 and 165 grain velocities may be a little shy of the absolute maximum possible for those weights, but are as good as factory velocities!

I use IMR-4831 and MRP and some old Gov. 4831 that is the equivelent of MRP, maybe a tad better...

I can get 2800 FPS with a 180 gr. and 2700 FPS with a 220 gr. using the above powders, but is it necessary, probably not you could cut back 100 FPS and get the same thing done and brass would last a lot longer.

I load my 06 to 2700 FPS with the 180s, 2600 with 200s and 2500 with 220s.

I have loaded lots of 30,06.
(who hasent) Your loads with the 150 and 165s are prety good. I Don't use bullets bigger than 180 in the 06.
I have other cartridges for bigger bullets.
But if you get 2900 with a 150 , 2800 with a 165, and 2750 with a 180, you are doing prety darn well.
Some people will say I am crazy here but the 06 is loaded to 50000 cup. In a modern bolt rifle like a 700 a 77 or a model 70, You can go up to 53000 cup just fine, so with a new 06 I usualy start at the max puplished load data.
call me crazy if you want, but I been doing it for about 25 years and have never even flatted a primer with any printed load in this cartridge.
Point being go up a half grain at a time and see what happens watching for excessive case expansin and flattend primers. But keep in mind another 100 fps really does not make that much difference. ...tj3006

30-06 arqqq
Mabe its your crony, should be 14 feet muzzle to first photo sensor with that high power. muzzle blast can cause low readings. if ANY clouds don't use defusers, good battry. Sounds redundant, but we forget that we forget.
Best of luck,
John

alphie,

Thanks.

I was about 20 feet from the chrony.

I have not used my chrony without the skyscreens and it is always cloudy here. I am hoping to do some more shooting this weekend. Gonna try H414