I want one more rifle (it has to be a 30-06 - so no debate on caliber), and have settled on either a NIB Kimber 8400 Classic or a Pre-64 M70 (1957) in great condition. Both are around the same price. I'll use the rifle as my primary gun, for all game (deer and elk every year) in all seasons/terrain/climates. No stainless steel and no synthetic stocks. Look at this as a throw-back to hunting as it once was. Which would you select and, more importantly, why? Thanks for any responses.

I would go for the pre-64 rifle.

An old rifle just feels better in your hands.

I don't know why.

just an idea. look CLOSELY at the new remington model 798. mauser 98 action, chrome-moly barrel, and a wood stock. MIGHT be just what you want.


b h

Easy one...the M-70...it'll always be worth what you paid for it.....the Kinber.....who knows.

The frugal Scot in me concurs with Vapodog. I wouldn't sell mine for twice what I paid for it.

Strictly from a hunting perspective:

I would pick both up and handle them. Get a feel for how they balance and come to the shoulder. It should be easy to decide after that. Go with your gut feeling.

I have handled both of them quite a bit. Never hunted with either. It may be blasphemous, but I would personally choose the Kimber over the pre-64. All based on handling the individual rifles.

Over the years I've owned a dozen pre-64s, and they are indeed the rifleman's rifle. The few that didn't shoot well were fixed with a little bedding work. Nothing says cool like a model 70 with a vintage Redfield 3X9 in period Redfield mounts.
On the other hand, I hear great things about the Kimber 8400, and friends tell me it is the new rifleman's rifle.

Although I haven't handled a Kimber, I LOVE my pre 64 Winnie, in 06!! Hands down the perfect 06 that will not only appreciate in value but is a perfect donor action if you ever get tired of the caliber. (I can't believe my lips uttered that) Names and manufacturers come and go but the Winnie is a standard to judge all others by. They are super reliable. Fit and finish was excellent. Depending on the condition, accuracy is great. Good luck and enjoy which ever one you get.

I must say, I am surprised at the answers. I thought most would want the Kimber. Certainly hope more hunters/shooters chime in. Thanks

I'm sure the Kimbers are very nice rifles. Having said that, I do not like the currently available walnut from just about ANYBODY. Not dense enough and too grainy, for my tastes.

So, I would go with the pre-'64 M-70. Would try to find one with very dense, very straight-grained wood and if necessary have it refinished by someone who really does make them look like brand-new original finish stocks. There are some of those "master-fakers" still around in almost every state. I'd also have them do the modern equivalent of "boning" the stock before they applied the finish, too.

Matter of fact, I know just where I would look for such a rifle...my vault. I have a pre-WWII M-70 .30-06 sitting there right now, complete with a B&L 2-1/2-to-8-X scope in 1940's vintage Stith Master Mounts. I've owned the gun for approximately 35 years and have shot moose in Canada, Elk in Arizona and Oregon, and deer many places in between, with it. It has a serial No. below 20,000 and will have to wait for my estate to be disposed of before it goes to a new home anywhere. Then hopefully it'll go back to Canada, to my nephew the Mountie gun-nut, if they can still have rifles by then.

While I am a pre 64 M70 fan I much prefer the Featherweights in 30-06. The old Standard model is just way too heavy and you don't need a 24" barrel either.

Look for an pre 64 Featherweight and handle it and you will see what I mean. The best one for a shooter would have a pad as then they cost less collector money wise. Just make sure the stock is long enough with a normal pad for your LOP.

I am a Kimber fan too but since your looking for the rifle in terms of tradition there is only one real choice and thats the original Riflemans Rifle.

I guess I'll stir some up when I say that the Model 70 was grossly over rated. Almost all that I've seen couldn't come close to most newer guns, even the "El Cheapo" Wally World Black Shadows. I would buy the Kimber or an MRC .

I have rifles far better and safer than pre 64 model 70's according to master gunsmith Ellis Simon, who specialized in repairing and customizing pre64 mod 70's. He suggested I purchase Sakos in the 1980's: one Sako Finnbear in 06 was used and the other was a new Sako Finnsport in 300wm both with shielded bolts and gas escape ports thru the bolt into the magazine or thru the extractor which will blow out.Both were bedded and tuned, both had leupold 3x9x40 scopes with CPC reticles installed along with latigo slings btw they're both very accurate.One of my friends has a Sako 300wm bedded & tuned by the same gunsmith,which he fired puting 3 shots in a 30 cal hole.All of the customers said their guns were Simonized,he passed in 1991.Customers who were brothers with custom pre 64's were out shooting when they mixed their ammo by mistake firing the wrong round in his win which pierced the primer sending super heated gasses thru the bolt into his eye luckily he regained full use of his eye.

sc83jp-

I've heard the same thing about the Pre-64'being unsafe.

I thought it was a wives tail until I met a guy who was blinded by an 06' pre-64 and now is a forced lefty with his shooting.

I would still call it a tough call. I really like both guns but with everything happening to Winchester, I'd go with the pre-64 but the Kimber is awfully nice rifle.

LB,

It is obvious you have never owned a Pre-64 M70! Get the M70, you will never regret the purchase.

Cheers

pete

LB,

I love my Winchester - it's simply a great rifle that is a quality piece & shoots excellently. Like others here I don't attach any mystical charma to it, it's just a good rifle.

I've never had a Kimber in my hands, so couldn't advise on the specifics but from what I've read they appear to be well made and have their own "following" of sorts.

Personally, like SDHunter advises, I'd evaluate both and take the one you like the best.

Since this is gonna be your primary piece, what would alsways be sticking in the back of my mind is.....When it all over & done with; why would I buy a 49 year old quality rifle instead of a brand new quality rifle for the same price?


Or perhaps - I LOVE '57 Chevies but I drive a 2005 Mercedes-Benz!

Have fun making your choice - and then live with it!

My post above touting the pre-'64 Model 70 tells why I would buy a 50 or more year old "quality" gun over a current "quality" gun. Better wood.

I would NOT buy any plastic stocked gun unless I had a special purpose for it. I have a dozen or so plastic stocked ones now (no 06's), but they all ARE special purpose rifles.

Anyway, I currently have 10 different .30-06's, which include among others, a G&H Springfield, a Brno ZKK-600 with pop-up peep, a 30 year old Remington 700-C, the early Model 70 mentioned above, a TCR-'83, a Shultz & Larsen M54, and an O/U double. Of those, I prefer the Model 70 for all-around use.

A Kimber or a Sako will probably function/kill just as well, but grace, North American tradition, and nostalgia all count for something in the final weigh-in.

And I don't worry about the safety aspect. I don't load any of them as if they were unbelted magnums.

This is a case; "Opinions are like "noses", everybody has one". I have owned a number of pre-64 Model 70's and would buy anymore I could if the price were right. If it came down to an old Mod70 vs. a brand new Kimber for the same price, I would take the Kimber. The wood I have seen on any number of new Kimbers beats the crap out of any old Mod70 I have ever seen with the possible exception of a few Super Grades. The machining processes used on the Kimbers is light years ahead of the Pre-64 Mod 70's and far more accurate as far as everything lining up properly. The old Mod 70 floorplate was an obimination and the Kimber is done right. The Kimber probably has better metal in it than the Pre 64's, on and on and on. My .02 worth!

The model 70, or an FN Deluxe Sporter in 30-06.

I'd wait a few months and get the Kimber Montana 8400 in 30-06.

A pre-'64 action in the modern super grade stock would be a rifle I'd like to have.

The Kimber would be my choice.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Masterifleman:
This is a case; "Opinions are like "noses", everybody has one". The wood I have seen on any number of new Kimbers beats the crap out of any old Mod70 I have ever seen with the possible exception of a few Super Grades. QUOTE]

If you are talking fancy grain, you are right. If you are talking good dense walnut instead of the porous modern stuff, I beg to disagree. I HAVE a Kimber sitting in the vault, next grade down from the SuperAmerica, and the wood is almost punky, it is so porous. And the inletting isn't as good as my pre-war Model 70.

So, anyway, I hope everyone buys Kimbers or Sakos, or whatever else in the modern gunworld turns their cranks. Just will make the old Model 70's less expensive for me.