In our little local village of Wilbur, Oregon, the local postmistress (and only employee in the post office) wants to buy her 12 year old son his first deer and Roosevelt elk rifle.

She asked me for advice, and I am turning to you folks. He is left-handed, and I am not at all up to date on what's out there for southpaws.

She is not poor, but she isn't exactly what you'd call "well-off" or "on easy street". So, I don't think she will want to spend over maybe $600, not counting the scope. Likewise, the kid hasn't the size or skills yet to handle anything bigger than a .30-06 on a regular basis, and something slightly less might be appropriate.

It is essential that the gun be reliable and not require excess maintenance. Semi-auto's and pumps are out of the question because of the safety issues at his age. This is to be basically a "big-game-learner's rifle" for his first few years' experience at the real thing.

So, what would you guys recommend?

Left handed rem 700 or Browning BLR.

270, 30-06, 308 or 7mm-08

Well at that price range, you are looking at either Rem 700 or Savage. You MIGHT find some rugers, but at that price its almost going to have to be used and purchased online.

My vote would go to Savage. Its accurate, dependable, and the lower price over a Remmy would leave more money for glass. Which, by the way, I would strongly suggest the mid-level Nikon's. Lots of glass for the amount of money spent. Make sure to tell her to stay away from package deals as the scopes are always junk.

Caliber wise....I'd probably go .270, mostly as choices are again going to be very limited. Great part is if and when he decides he is ready to step up, changing calibers on the Savage is extremely easy and cheaper then a new gun....then he can have any caliber he wants. He could even change the bolt face to a magnum for under 50$.

So to recap, Savage, 270 Win (with GOOD bullets for the Rosie's, them are big elk lol) and a Nikon Pro-staff or Buckmasters scope. Or take the money saved on the Savage over basically the only other LH option, Remmy, and step up to the Nikon Monarch.

Or hell, here is another idea! H&R Handi Rifle in 270 or 280 Rem!! Even the 7-08 or 308 (same with the Savage) She'll be at 600$ for rifle AND scope, they shoot better then they should, and it'll force him to really work on his shooting skills. Plus if he ends up not being a life long hunter, she isn't out a lot of money. Again, its easy to step up (or down, versatility of a single shot) to another caliber by sending the frame to H&R and having them do a trigger job and install a new barrel for like 160$ shipped back and forth.

I don't know why a Savage in 30-06 wouldn't fill the bill.

quote:

I don't know why a Savage in 30-06 wouldn't fill the bill

+1

I have not read a bad idea yet. I am a left handed shooter myself. I have always used a right handed bolt action. It has not hindered my shooting ability any. Most of the factory LH bolt action rifles are offered in the popular calibers like 270, 30-06, 243 & such. Any of those should work. The 243 might be too lite of a caliber for larger elk. A premium bullet could make up the difference, maybe, but why chance it. If he could handle the 30-06 that would be a good caliber. The 308 would be a good choice if the 06 has too much recoil.
A single shot would be another good option.
I have read some good reviews on the Stevens model 200. I have a friend that has one in 25-06 & he likes it alot. That might be something to look into. I am pretty sure that I have seen a left handed version listed for this model. One of these could be picked up brand new for under $400. I would buy a good scope & if he likes hunting & sticks with it, there is the option of purchasing other barrels for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
Left handed rem 700 or Browning BLR.

270, 30-06, 308 or 7mm-08

+1, heavily recommend the 30-06. The tikkas make a left handed version, and are a fine rifle as well and might be just in that price range.

John

Is the Howa available left handed.....or the WBY Vanguard?

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Is the Howa available left handed.....or the WBY Vanguard?

Davidson's doesn't list them on their left handed section, but if they did, they would be a good pick!

John

Savage makes a left handed rifle in .308. That would my choice.

I would by that young gentelman a left handed Ruger hawkeye in 308 or 30,06.
They run about 600.00 to 650.00 I would get a stainless synthetic since the guy is hunting Rosevelts. That is the coat range and I hunt there myself.
Lots of rain and rough country.
Nothing wrong with the wooden ones though.
You might point out to her that Leupold has started building a quie inexpnsive scope under the redfield name , and a 3X9 is only 150.00.
With ruger rings all thats needed is a sling and ammo.
I know i have been to wilbur, cant remember where it is though. need to do a search...
...tj3006

My son is a lefty, although learned to shoot all of my right handed rifles so he doesn't like a left handed bolt action...

however if he did, the first one I'd pick up is a lefty Savage..

He had to have a 30/06 so that is what I gave him.. my choice would have been a lighter caliber, probably 6.5 mm, as that is what I shoot..but he heard from all of his friends that an 06 was a "Man's Gun" so that is what he had to have..

What I gave him was an A Bolt that I picked up back in about 1992 for $300.00 just after the deer season ended..along with a 300 Win Mag and a 338 Mag in the same rifles for the same price..

Does the stevens come in a LH? If so that would leave plenty of room for a scope.

I think all are good ideas. I do question a 12 year old being able to handle a 30'06 though, especially if he hasn't shot a lot already. Might be a good way to develop a good flinch. Seems like my 7mm08 was smacking me around pretty good at that age. FWIW For that reason I'd say 308 Rem 700, Savage, H&R, Tikka are great, but my first choice for a young shooter, a rem model seven.

Lefty model 7 in 7-08. Nice piece of glass in 2x7. Practice and deer hunt with 120s and have someone load him up some 160s for elk hunting.
best of both worlds.
Why start him out with a ugly rifle?

you ask for practical and helpful advise here??

Is the young man left-eye dominant? May be more important than handed-ness. How about the availability of a youth stock? While the Tika, Ruger and Howa may be nicer guns, a Savage may offer more flexibility for future needs. The availability of a youth stock would be my determinant.

I like the 7-08. For inexpensive scopes, the Bushnell 3200 series in 2x7 is a good choice. Might be of higher quality than the Redfield, which is also a Bushnell brand.

For his first big game rifle and one that won't be cast asside later, that choice is easy; a Marlin 336 in .35 Remington.

Later, if he wants something for shooting passed 200 yards he will have the experience, and hopefully the means, to add something bigger but he'll never outgrow the lever in .35 Rem as a pure hunting rifle.

I checked the webpage last night, no LH stevens 200.

Lots of good suggestions, for a kid so young though I still think a Savage, H&R or possibly a T/C encore in 7-08 or 308 is best. If he takes to hunting as a life long pursuit, he can always upgrade to a Ruger or Tikka or Browning on his own. I would be iffy spending that much on a 12 year old who may just kill his first deer and be totally turned off, because she won't get even half that money back by selling

http://www.gunbroker.com/Aucti....aspx?Item=151902654

http://www.gunbroker.com/Aucti....aspx?Item=151877199

The above links are the result of a quick search. With a little time I think I could find other examples, and better deals. But the Tikka SS in 308 would be hard to beat. The kid will not outgrow it, and can use it for a lifetime. Good resale value too.

My nephew grew so quickly that the youth stock was relevant only a very short time, so short that the youth stock was a waste of time. At 14 he was using a full size stock, and there was worry about him creeping up on the scope using the too-short stock.

I gave him some mild handloads to learn on. Now 308 managed recoil factory ammo is available.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rem_managed_recoil.htm

http://www.chuckhawks.com/federal_low_recoil.htm

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewP...productNumber=233209

IMO, if a kid can't shoot the managed recoil loads in 308, then he has no business elk hunting until he matures a little, and develops skill.

KB

AC,
it depends allot on your son's attitude about recoil. it took my 13 year old son about a 1/2 hour at the bench to squeeze off his first down loaded .270 shot. that after several sessions at the bench with a .22, as well. allot of anxiety about getting punched by the " big gun" just about had him in tears once during that time. he wasn't a big kid jus average, but he didn't like what he saw when i shot, apearently. on the other hand, at the same time my daughter a full two years younger, stepped up to the plate and touched one off out of her '06 like a pro... it was a bullseye, too!. now she, on the other hand was a bit big for an 11 year old and the recoil didn't bother her abit. i wouldn't say my son was "meek and mild" he went on to be a highschool starting runningback with an second season rushing average of 6.7 yrds/carry....go figure! i down loaded both cartridges as much as i figured would still be reliable, so you just never know till you know.

The Handi Rifle compact mod. in 7-08 or perhaps have Shaw spin a 6.5x55 or 7X57 barrel onto a lefty Savage action. If he doesn't reload Some nice person will have to teach him and make sure he has enough ammo for next season. I am a believer in single shot rifles pressuring the shooter into being a good shot. roger

Looks like you have good advice so far. But being that I spent a few years in your general area (North ID) I would only add, don't buy new unless you have NO choice. Up there you have tons of places to buy 2nd hand and I have found that you will get a whole lot more bang for your buck (pun intended). You just might find a Model 70 or a Browning that will fall in your price range in one of the pawn shops, gun shops, newspapaer etc. Lefty rifles tend to sit for a long time and you can score some great deals.

I don't know of all of the models out there but I think that for a 12 year old, a .308 would be good. Neither the boy nor his mother have a lot of money to spend and he will need a lot of practice. There's plenty of el cheapo ammo out there for him to practice with.
Just my thoughts. It's nice that you're willing to help them out.
Bear in Fairbanks

quote:

but I think that for a 12 year old, a .308 would be good.

I second that. Winchester model 70 FW LH .308 Winchester would be what I would start looking for.

Thanks a lot for the suggestions so far.

Let me say again, for those who didn't catch it in the the starting post of this thread, this is NOT MY son. (Heck, my son will soon be 50, not 12!)

If it was my son, he'd already have a good Savage M99 in .300 Savage or .308 Winchester for a starter deer/elk gun to be used in the Coast Range of Oregon....

Speaking of the Coast Range, Wilbur is on the eastern edge of those hills...about 7 miles due north of Roseburg on "Old Hwy. 99". A person goes right through it when they take the "cutoff road" from I-5 to the Diamond Lake Highway or Crater Lake.

Back to rifles for this lad....

Do they make the Model 7 in a left-hand version? What I originally suggested to her was that she buy him a Model 7 in 7m/m-08, IF they make them in a left hand version these days. And I gave her the name of a good local gunsmith to cut the buttstock off and fit a recoil pad for him if the butt is too long. (I haven't seen her son, so have no idea how long his arms are or how tall he is.)

I told her that if they don't make a Model 7 in left hand these days, to go to the
Remington on-line catalogue site and see the different versions of the Model 700 left-hand bolt rifles...and to pick the lightest, shortest barreled one there...and to NOT buy him a magnum of any kind. I suggested both the 7-08 and the .308 as first and second choices.

The trouble most kids have with their first big game rifle is that it is too big physically for them to handle easily...too long in both stock and barrel, and too heavy. Rifles are very hard to shoot well with if their balance is unsuited to the smaller frame & weight of a young guy's body. Poor gun handling & shooting, of course, is both dangerous and discouraging. A poor fit also can greatly increase the "felt" recoil.

With the local economy the way it is, this could well be the only big game rifle he will ever have until he is old enough to buy his own. So I am trying to recommend something that will be useful for him as (and after) he grows, as well as now.

If you have any more suggestions, I'd like to hear them too.

AC


Edited to add: Just noticed the comment on the Winchester Model 70 FW left-hander in .308 - - - that could work well too, if it is within the $600 price range. Is it? (I didn't even realize they were making left-handed Model 70s these days, so thanks for the heads-up there.)

If $600 is the most she wants to spend I doubt you'd even get a remmy for that and still have money for scope rings or bases. I think if she bought him a savage in 308 youth model and put a decent scope on it, the both of them would be happy and it's a good all around rig.
Paul.

For about $50-$100 a gunsmith will cut-down any of the wood rifles to fit his length of pull. I don't believe remington chamber the model 7 in LH versions, and they actually are more expensive than the 700's to begin with.

John

Hello AC ; Practical advise Eh ?. Have to kind of agree with Butchloc on that one " On this Forum " ?.

Hey only kidding . I can think of a few 6.5 X 55 is a Pretty good first cartridge IMO .270 nearly any of the

.284 and for heavier bullet slinging .30 cal .308 30 06 .

It's been a spell since I was 12 but heavier recoil doesn't make a better marksman least wise not starting out .

Has the Boy been shooting anyone's hunting rifles ?. Kind of an evaluation of recoil tolerance so to speak .

Might be a real nice gesture on you and some of your friends to conduct just that , Dad !.

# 3 rounds per target per caliber should point you in the correct direction !.

When ever an opportunity presents it's self especially for youth I always try and step up and do whatever

I'm allowed to do . It's up to ALL OF US SHOOTERS HUNTERS SPORTSMAN to pass this along too the Youngsters !.

I fear some of us may live long enough to see the day when it's BANNED !!!!!!!!!!!.

7mm-08 would be the caliber.


I would buy the Weatherby Vanguard Youth rifle. It comes with a youth and an additional full sized stock to use later.

quote:

Originally posted by ar corey:
7mm-08 would be the caliber.


I would buy the Weatherby Vanguard Youth rifle. It comes with a youth and an additional full sized stock to use later.

Corey- How much do they cost?

Around here, with 15%+ unemployment (thanks to the Greenies and their anti-logging BS) Weatherby is normally seen as a rich-man's rifle by most folk. Unless it goes "out the door" at a price inside budget, it's a really tough sell.

At least in Oregon, there is no sales tax (yet), so she doesn't have to worry about that reducing the funds for the rifle itself. And most local FFL holders are willing to sell for just over their cost of getting the gun in, because there are so many fewer buyers these days.

I have enough spare bases and rings to fit just about anything she can find, so if push comes to shove I can donate those without her or her boy feeling obligated.

And, though I might prefer to find him a used gun locally, as it is his first hunting rifle of his very own, I think "new" just might mean something special to him.

sorry about that AC!
i did read your whole post, but by the time i read all the way down the thread, i forgot it wasn't your son....

i can't say i would suggest the .308, at least not in a mod.99.
i had mod 99E when i was about 14 or 15 and i can honestly say that i didn't like it much. i though it kicked like a mule. it seemed to kick real sharp and faster than most other guns i shot. i thought the stock had too much drop for a cartridge of that power. maybe it was just my whimpy butt, but i sure didn't like it.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by ar corey:
7mm-08 would be the caliber.


I would buy the Weatherby Vanguard Youth rifle. It comes with a youth and an additional full sized stock to use later.

Corey- How much do they cost?

Around here, with 15%+ unemployment (thanks to the Greenies and their anti-logging BS) Weatherby is normally seen as a rich-man's rifle by most folk. Unless it goes "out the door" at a price inside budget, it's a really tough sell.

At least in Oregon, there is no sales tax (yet), so she doesn't have to worry about that reducing the funds for the rifle itself. And most local FFL holders are willing to sell for just over their cost of getting the gun in, because there are so many fewer buyers these days.

I have enough spare bases and rings to fit just about anything she can find, so if push comes to shove I can donate those without her or her boy feeling obligated.

And, though I might prefer to find him a used gun locally, as it is his first hunting rifle of his very own, I think "new" just might mean something special to him.

http://www.wholesalesports.com...pact/prod225670.html


$700.00 in Canada.

Best to buy a plain synthetic Vanguard in 7mm-08.

It will weigh 7.5 pounds yet that will be a bonus for recoil. Kids are so eager carry weight is never a problem.

Synthetic stock can be chopped and epoxied then recoil pad added.

Can get the rifle for under $500.00.

Built by Howa and its dimension's are more precise than a Rem. 700.

Buy a JRS stock later on for $100.00. Give the kid a project later on to glass the stock.

In all the searches, I did not see any left hand Vanguards or Howa, which included the Weatherby and Howa web sites.

A left handed stainless Vanguard in 308 would be a good choice, but I don't think they are made in left handed.

KB

With that high of unemployment perhaps a nice used one is in order ?.

Take a look see here and get a well rounded Idea of brand and cost New ;

http://www.ableammo.com/catalo...php?cPath=9935_13987

Example ; http://www.ableammo.com/catalo...hp?products_id=86901

BOL ...

Hi AC
Now I am a Canuck from Alberta....it begs an answer!

One thing I would consider is a T/C Encore. That way he could add barrels as he needed a bigger calibers? And a varmint barrel if that was of interest later.

Nothing says deer rifle like a nice Winchester Model 88 is 308 (although my favorite is in 284).

Happy Gnu Year to all!
Joe P.

Remington 7mm/08 SPS youth rifle. Easier for a youth to master due to the lighter recoil.
As he matures he can always find a Remington take off stock for sale and bring it up to his length of pull. Then as he advances to a larger caliber he will always have a great deer rifle that was his first

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Remington 7mm/08 SPS youth rifle. Easier for a youth to master due to the lighter recoil.
As he matures he can always find a Remington take off stock for sale and bring it up to his length of pull. Then as he advances to a larger caliber he will always have a great deer rifle that was his first

That is exactly what I did for my Godson and for exactly those reasons. Excellent advice.

quote:

Originally posted by daniel77:
I do question a 12 year old being able to handle a 30'06 though, especially if he hasn't shot a lot already. Might be a good way to develop a good flinch. Seems like my 7mm08 was smacking me around pretty good at that age. FWIW For that reason I'd say 308 Rem 700, Savage, H&R, Tikka are great, but my first choice for a young shooter, a rem model seven.

Unless he is pretty stout, which I know some 12 year olds can be, an 06 is a lot of gun for a 12 year old. I like the 7-08 idea that wasbeeman suggests, and as daniel77, I think a model 7 is a good choice.

One thought, you might try and help her out by scouring the online sites or what not for a good used rig in LH, I've seen some great prices on Guns America ocassionally, and 500 or so can get you a really good rifle.....

Go looking on the used rifle rack, spend some time just looking. I would suggest either a 308 or a 7mm-08. With the nod going to the 308 due to ammo and cost. Keep it simple, a good fixed 4x scope in some good rings and bases. Spend time shooting, mostly 22 with a few shots of centerfire at a time. No point in introducing bad habits and a flinch at his age. What ever you do, don't buy junk and then put a junk scope on it, good way to turn off a young hunter, has to be able to see and well the rife needs to fit plan work. Lots of good guns around just need to go looking.