I have admired the CZ Full stocks and I see they have a 20.5" barrel. My question is which of the cartridges they list are most suited to a carbine length barrel ??

My guess is the 9.3x62 would probably match up best with the short barrel.

How does the 6.5x55 go in this barrel length ??

My next question is what are the most classic calibres to have in a full stock ??

They certainly are very attractive rifles

[ 06-22-2003, 16:43: Message edited by: PC ]

G'day PC
Nice gun that you are thinking of. The 6,5X55 will not do it's best in such short barrel. You will not get the best performance out of the round, I would recommend a 23-24 inch barrel for the Swede.

8X57, 7X57 9,3X57 and 8X60 are all classic fullstock rifle calibers, soo is the 9,3X62. 308 will also do faily good eve if it's a very boring round, and not soo classic. A really rare caliber is 10,75X57 which would be a flatter for the hogs

Cheers
/ JOHAN

PC
I have a friend who has a CZ full stock in 9,3x62. He has killed caribou in Alaska with it. It is a very nice rifle.
JOHAN is correct in his calibre assessment. I have a full stock 308 Steyr that I really like.
I'll add one more calibre;
With all the surplus actions on the market a custom full stock 10.75x68 would be a good choice.
I think this would be a great NON African big bore. [It would do ok on buff and lion, I am not trying to start something here]. I think this round will fir in a standard length Mauser action with out any serious action work.

PC:

I have the desire to put one in my gun cabinet also. Beautiful rifles.

MY choice is the 6.5 x 55. Of course that is my favorite caliber. If not available my second would be the good old 7 x 57. Just think of a Full Stock as a European classic and would mate a caliber that I considered a European Classic as well.

Johan being a Swede, I am sure he has experience with the 6.5 x 55, and I respect his opinion.
I have alot of faith I have gained on the round as I have had it perform beyond its paper ballistic and what they indicate. You didn't say what game you would be tackling with it.

I don't have experience with the 9.3 caliber, and have so much faith in my 338/06 when I get into that need range, I would not really buy one.

However if I found the full stock CZ in that caliber and that is all I could get it in, I would not hesitate at all. In fact I would also not feel any lack of confidence in the round either.

It just strikes me as an example of the finer European designs ( from an estetic standpoint) and I would want a European caliber in it!
They all wreak CLASS!

I don't know about the two cartridges you mentioned, but my brother has a CZ 550 Full Stock in 7x57mm. It too has the euro 1x8.66 twist and therefore, shoots the heavier bullets the best. With the Hornady 162 grain SST bullet and H414 powder (48.3 grains) the bullet gets a muzzle velocity of 2,740 fps and is a one minute of angle load at 100 yards. He loves the thing.

What cartridge is the 10.75x68 ?? Is this a Euro Classic ??, what ballistics does this cartridge acheive ?? What bullets are commonly available ??

obviously a rebarrel would be the order of the day here.

Johan I though the same thing regarding the 6.5x55 I have a standard Lux model CZ coming in 9.3x62 (special order item for Australia) so I would be better to mate a 6.5x55 Lux with that, I have an old swede M38 but do not want to butcher that for a scope, work out just as good to purchase a new cz. The 6.5x55 is a wonderful round.

Thomas all your talk of the 7x57 is making me think I need a rifle in this chambering

NE 450, I probaly should have just ordered my 9.3x62 in a full stock but I sort of got bullied into taking a lux you know " we can get a lux in for you pretty quick, but another model will take a while etc."

Who makes Brass & dies for the 10.75x68 ??

Seafire I agree that the Euro Calibres are pretty cool and I need to add some to my collection, the Full Stocks probably also need to be in a Euro calibre to make it all "right"

These CZ Full stocks in the last week have caused me to have trouble getting to sleep, sick thing about this is I am not joking

[ 06-23-2003, 04:22: Message edited by: PC ]

PC

bullets are made by Woodleigh(caliber 423), brass is avilable from Horneber or bertram. Dies should be able to find in Europe or USA. I guess it just a question of asking around for best price.

Look at www.hataritimes.com Harald used one while hunting in Aussie. It's an grand old caliber that been forgotten for a while.

The 6,5X55 will with slow powder and heavy bullets (140 grain or heavier) be best in a 24 inch barrel.

/ JOHAN

PC Check out JOHAN's link, it is a good one.

I just wonder if I could get Blaser to make me a bbl for my R-93.

PC
I think a 10.75x68 would be a good rifle for pigs and wild "cattle" in the land down under.
That is where they make Bertram Brass and Woodleigh bullets.

[ 06-23-2003, 05:33: Message edited by: N E 450 No2 ]

So the 10.75 uses same type bullets as a .423 Woodleigh's what I did not see what ballistics they were getting. That would for sure make a nice calibre for the CZ FS.

Bertram Brass would not be a goer unless you wanted really mild ballistics.

So many rifles so little money

Mayebe the "Fraternity of the 10.75" will be born on this forum. It certainly has a ring to it.

PC
Original ballistics 347gr. soft or solid. @2200fps.

NE I see woodleigh list softs and solids 347gr specifically designed for the 10.75 (.423) and then list the Jeff bullets 400 gr etc.

Would you get the chamber cut to accomadate the longer 400 gr variety bullets and then with a little free bore the 347 gr variety might get 2300 fps which could neally put it in the ball park with the .375 H&H type power ??

What case head size does this round use, it just a simple re-barrel of a FS CZ ??

Your right that cal would make a gtreat close cover pig & feral cattle gun

PC
I would be happy with the original ballistics. The nice thing about the 10.75 is a fairly light weight rifle with enough power, but not too much recoil.

NE 450 or anyone else,

what is the case head size for this ?? would there need to be much work to get it to feed ?? open mag box up, open bolt face at all ??

It would definitely be something a little odd ball and would amke for a pwoerful little carbine in the CZ FS.

Would it be better on African Game than the 45/70 ??

PC: Until last year the 7x57mm Mauser was the only big game rifle I owned, then a friend gave me (and I mean gave me) a Model 94 Swede in 6.5x55. It is all matching parts and some clown tried to "sporterize" the stock by cutting off the last seven or so inches of the bottom stock and then slapped a hunk of ebony on the end. I'm still trying to locate a decent military stock for this little baby as I want it in full military dress. Anyway, I have taken elk, whitetail deer, wild boar, javelina, coyote and even a wild turkey at 175 yards with a head shot. All game were one-shot kills. I have the CZ 550 American in the 7x57mm Mauser and it shoots the 162 grain Hornady SST 2,815 fps with 48.3 grains and 2,855 fps with 48.9 grains. Accuracy is .4 to .5 inches with the 48.3 grain load and .216 with the 48.9 grain load, though, that is the only three-shot group I shot with that particular load, so it may have been a fluke. I shoot the 7x57mm a lot, shoot the CZ 550 American a lot, so I know what I am doing with this rifle and I have total confidence in the cartridge, the rifle, and me, when it comes to game shooting. I must add, however, that the 7x57mm Mauser is heavily a handloader proposition, especially with the CZ, because the factory loaded offerings are 139 grain and 140 grain with a really enimic 175 grain loading and the CZ has the 1x8.66 twist, so it prefers the heavier bullets. Just thought I'd speak up on the little seven once again. It is a magnificant cartridge. Tom Purdom

PC
From Cartridges of the World
OAL: 3.16"
Base diameter: .492"
Rim diameter: .488"
They list a load of 59gr of IMR3031, 347gr. bullet at 2250fps.
400grain bullets should do at least 1950fps with low pressure. This duplicates the 55gr Cordite load of the 450/400 3" for those who would like a 400gr load in thick brush on big game.
This cartridge just seems like a "natural" in a standard Mauser action.

NE 450 was this round an orginal round for Full Stocked Rifles ??

What are the orgins of this round is it orginally a miltary round or was it designed purely for sporting purposes ??

Do you own a Rifle in this calibre NE or know someone who does ??

Thomas Stop all your talk of the 7x57 or I will have to get a cz in that calibre People on this forum forced me to go an purchase a 9.3x62 cz because of all there banter

PC This was a sporting round offered by the Mauser factory. I first read about in in Taylor's book "African Rifles and Cartridges". I also read about a fella who was a Mauser collector, and had reciever a call from a buddy who had found a Type A for sale in this calibre. He bought the rifle and hunted with it.
I do not have a rifle in this calibre, but I have a 450/400 3 1/4" double that I have used to take deer and wild pigs with 300gr. bullets at around 2330fps. It has been very effective. I have also taken Black Bear and caribou with 400gr Woodleigh Softs.
With all the surplus Mauser actions around, and the intrest in big bore rifles I felt this would be a good calibre especially for the "do most of it yourself on a budget" rifle project. It uses the same diameter bbl as a 404 Jeffery but does not take all the action work. It is a little less powerful, thus not as good for elephant,but should do ok on lion and buff, but I was not even thinking of it for African use. Most bigbore rifles never make it to Africa. I think that the 10.75x68 would make a very good big bore for everywhere else, from wild pigs to Brown Bear, in an affordable easy to carry and shoot bolt rifle.
Plus it is just exotic enough to make it fun to load and shoot.

It certainly has got a ring to it NE !!

I have seen a Mauser action in my local gun shop that is currently in 30/06 disguise, it looks fairly worn but my smith could easily fix that.

The thing is how do you tell a good action from a bad mauser action ?? I know it was not a Argentine 1909 which from my limited understanding are some of the most prized actions.

When 2 of my friends and I were going to have a gunsmith build us some M-1 Garands for target shooting we met him at a big gunshow and let him pick out ALL the parts he would need.
I would let my gunsmith pick out the action, and /or get advice from some of the gunsmiths on the AR Forum.
There is bound to be some information on original Mausers in this calibre in some books.
Once and a while an original Mauser Sporter in this cal. turns up.

NE,

my bet is you will have a rifle in this calibre at some stage.

Don't you think it would look and feel great in a re-barrelled cz Full stock carbine with 20.5" barrel

PC
A few years ago you might have been correct...I like handy short bbl'ed rifles [I have a 20" 375 H&H] and full stock carbines.However since I started hunting with double rifles they have possessed me. They are the finest example of a hunters rifle.

With good Horneber brass now available it is no trick to get 2375 FPS with a 350 gr. .423 Barnes X or GS HV bullet in the 10.75 x68 and an easy 2200 FPS with a 400 gr. Woodleigh. in a good Mauser action rifle...I was getting those recommended velocities with mine without a hitch..It duplicated the original loadings of the 404 Jefferys without a problem...

The 10.75 x 68 is the most under rated of the African DGR cartridges simply because of a lack of good bullets and brass early on, not the case today...It is a fantastic little round, shy on recoil and high on killing power...A perfect Lion and Buffalo gun. Works in a standard length action slicker n snot with room to spare, and the magazine will hold a passel of them..

It is an orphan child and much over looked..It has a lot going for it, and to own and use one is a joy...In the changing world of the old guns, with brass and bullets in abundance in the last 10 years, a lot of things have changed and the 10.75x68 is a true resurection, its now better than ever and as good as most.

Horneber brass and Woodleigh bullets are available from Huntingtons along with bullets from Barnes, GS, Swift, and others..same as the 404 Jefferys...its big brother.

I'd like to build me one in an 8 lb rifle, just to shoot buffalo with...A 350 gr. BarnesX or GS HV at 2375 FPS should be just about the berries for a Buff or Lion, by golly I'm gonna do just that, I flat just talked myself into it.

Ray,

all you do is cost me money with your ravings about good calibers

Do you think this round would be well suited to a cz Full Stock Ray ??

Ray, Let me guess....26" Lothar Walther bbl {Mauser action of course] bolt shroud peep, thin, slim, trim [British proportioned] walnut stock....
Leupold 3x in QD mounts.
Need I say more?

NE 450,

so the case head is .492 ?? Is that a common case head size ?? Would a bolt set up for the 9.3x62/30/06 case head need opening up ??

My Verniers have run out of Batteries

[ 06-24-2003, 06:03: Message edited by: PC ]

PC
The rim diameter I have is .488. These numbers come from Cartridges of the World which sometimes have some variation.

Thomas P;

I just purchased a really nice shaped Turkish Mauser in 8 mm. I bought it for the action, as it needs to be head spaced etc. It was listed as a wall hanger. However the stock and all is in real nice shape. The wood is not all cosmoline stained and half a dozen different shades.

If it will fit you Mauser, maybe we could work out something. Otherwise I was just going to save it all. I have a 1920 made Swedish 96, with the 29 inch barrel. It and the Turkish Mauser look the same next to each other unless you start looking closer. Like the bayonet won't interchange.

Let me know at seafire@cpros.com if you have an interest. If so I am sure we can work out something.

Full length stocks are ( to me ) most naural in rifles with 22" or shoter barrels and of 30 cal. or less. Right now I'm working on a full length stock for a 6.5x55 on a Krag action. Not all together popular but it will turn as many heads as a Corvette. For good or bad reasons. She sure is fun to shoot too.

PC, I've decided that my next hunting rifle will be a 550 Full Stock in 7X57.

Orion,

now that would make a nice choice for that rifle (when do you plan to get it)??, give me a cz FS over a busty wench any day

NB why do you like Full stock rifles in calibres less tha .30 ??

I reckon if cz chambered ther FS rifles in 10.75x68 with woodleigh bullets and Hornber brass availbe they would sell a few. A short powerful sexy big bore

[ 06-30-2003, 16:26: Message edited by: PC ]

Orion,

now that is a great program and we should have it in our counrty !!

I agree with you that a 6.5x55 or 7x57 would be great choices for a cz FS, I would not even mind one in 30/06. Ideally if I had plenty of money I wouldlike to get two a matched pair in 9.3 & 6.5 with identical scopes and slings. What could not be tackled with that combo short of elephant.

Those M1 Garands would be awsome for pig hunting I reckon

I like them in the 30 and under calibers for a couple of (perhaps stupid) reasons. Even though FS rifles sport more wood than nessesary, somehow those that know how to build'em can make them as light and seemingly slimmer than a standard sporter or carbine and the slimmer barrel just seems to flow more gracefully than a thicker tube. The slimmer the barrel the lighter the gun, there's nothing worse than a med caliber Mannlicher rifle that weighs over7 lbs. And my last reason I'll give relates to the weight of the gun. The light guns, with sorter barrels aren't as fun in the larger bores.

NB you make a good point about the caliber and weight. I wonder what a cz fs in 9.3x62 would weigh in the flesh ??.

It's funny I used to think that rifles like the cz fs looked stupid but in the last year or so I am now thinking my favoured look the "Ruger stainless" look is ugly. But at the same token those rifles have a use.