The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles The perfect medium bore for AfricaGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| The perfect medium bore for Africa | Login/Join |
| one of us |
I shot a lot of game with the 9.3x62 and its definitely one of my all time favorites, mostly because the lack of recoil make this old body more comfortable..I shot it at near 2600 FPS with a 286 bullet, but my go to load has always been the 286 Nosler at 2500 FPS taking into consideration the African heat that can be a factor late in the season...About like far West Texas or southern Arizona..Another favorite load for me is the 300 gr. bullet at 2450 FPS. My main reason for the .338 in most cases is range, as it shoots a bit faster with lighter bullets of good construction and penetrates as well or better than any of the rest..For bush buffalo Id opt for the 9.3s by comparison, but were talking about med bore on safari, I have a 404, 416, and a 450-400 for Buffalo, Hippo, and elephant, and probably Lion..Just my two bits, many other calibers would do as well I suspect. Keep in mind that Ganyana got mangled by a charging elephant using his 9.3x62..Even the experienced can and have on many occasion been killed or injured by not using all the gun they could shoot on some of the big 5..I prefer to be over gunned on DG, and being a little under gunned on PG, deer, and elk, bothers me not, although it can hamper success! I no longer have a need to prove how light a gun I can kill game with, Im pretty sure I know that by now. especially since I found out just a little bit more works to my advantage.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
|
One of Us |
Same perfect medium bore every place else in the world...30-06 with 180 grain bullets Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
One of Us |
"Same perfect medium bore every place else in the world...30-06 with 180 grain bullets" Mike Exactly! LL | |||
|
| One of Us |
The 1st time I went bear hunting in Minnesota, many decades ago, I did not own a rifle big enough. When I asked the lodge owner what caliber to pick up, he said 30-06, 180 grain bullets...... | |||
|
| One of Us |
When I think of "medium bore", I think of calibers larger than 8mm. I dunno why. My arbitrary dividing line between small bore and medium bore is anything between .324 and .399 is "medium Bore". Less than .324 is small bore. Less than .243 is puny bore.  More than .399 is big bore. So, the 30-06 is a small bore, IMO.  ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
|
One of Us |
The question remains did he get "mangled" because he was using a 9.3 or did he muff a shot, always easier to blame it on "the 9.3" or "bullet failure" rather than our own shortcomings. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Are you talking about where he had his arm broken? If so that was a result of the elephant being too close. Do t think it would have mattered what he used. DRSS | |||
|
| One of Us |
My understanding was that he killed the elephant just fine with the 9.3. It then fell on him. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I remember one more. The 35 Newton. It was really a non belted Magnum that would function through 30/06 length actions. Being non belted one should be able to get 4 down in a Model 70 or Remington 700. | |||
|
| one of us |
When I went to Africa I took a .416 Rem for Buffalo and a .358 STA for plains game. I wanted a rifle in my hands that would handle dangerous game when I was after plains game just in case shit happened. My PH had to shoot a charging Buffalo Cow at ten steps while he and his hunter who hunted just prior to me were after Impala. He used his 500 Jeffery and the Cow fell at his feet. I would not have wanted to be there with less than what I had in my hands. It is Africa fellows and she demands respect and I didn’t want to play Cowboy with my life by packing a chambering less than the job. Just my .02 cents. Good Shooting. phurley | |||
|
One of Us |
 A person uses the tool in their hands. Make it a good one. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
|
| One of Us |
OK. We’ve had some more offerings for the ideal African Medium bore. Here’s where they stand on the Simpson Formula for anyone interested (or not): 30-06 W. 180 V. 2,700 C. .308 Calc. E. 2,913 M. 69 KO. 21 35 Newton from COTW W. 250 V. 2,815 C. .358 Calc. E. 4,398 M. 100 KO. 35 358 STA. from COTW..A-SQ. FL W. 275 V. 2,850 C. .358 Calc. E. 4,958 M. 111 KO. 40 Simpson Formula: W. 275 V. 2,500 C. .358 calc. E. 3,815 M. 98 KO. 35 Thanks for playing fellas! | |||
|
| one of us |
Bottom line is the bigger the gun the better it works as a rule I suspect..but you still have t be able to shoot it without a flinch, so shoot the biggest you can handle, be honest with yourself, go to Africa.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
|
| One of Us |
that is correct. bigger gun wont have make a difference at all for that specific event and i was told that by the man himself. many many moons ago ... | |||
|
One of Us |
The new standard for ele hunting; fall-on-you distance. | |||
|
| one of us |
I agree with 99.9% of all these posts so far, that's a first perhaps!!  It probably good advise to not stand under an elephant that ones intent on killing.. As to a proper rifle for all DG, it should have the popularity to penetrate the brain of and elephant, the rest is people error, a 30-06 or 7x57 with solids will penetrate to the brain of an elephant, it would be my last last recommendation however The perfect medium bore for DG would be the 9.3x64 or 375 H&H as well as a decent choice for your big bore. That said, the .338 win will out penetrate either, and most big bores if not all.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
|
| One of Us |
I am not qualified to really make a comment to the OP’s original question. But it makes me ponder what would be ideal for me. I will likely never make it to Africa, but if I do make a trip, it will likely be ten to fifteen years from now, when I’m between 55 and 60. Many years of hard labor in the oilfield has already taken a toll on my elbows wrists and shoulders. Arthritis is settling in as well. Hopefully, I will still be able to shoot big bores, but if not, I hope to be able to manage a 9.3x62. All of my african hunting knowledge is anecdotal, but all the reports indicate that the 9.3x62 is still doing what it was designed to do 114 years ago, only better. The 9.3x64 and 375 H&h only add rock throwing distance, in added performance, over the 9.3x62. Matt FISH!! Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984: "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." | |||
|
| One of Us |
Worth remembering. The SectionalDensity of a 300gn in .338" is a fantastic .375 SD. Yes, a solid in 338 would make for excellent elephant and hippo penetration. However, plains game does not really need a .375SD, not even buffalo. Many would trade off that excessive SD for more flatness to include shots up to 300 even rarely out to 400 yards. The 250gn in 338 have a .313 SD, itself not too shabby, and the monolithics in 225gn (only .281SD) will match the penetration of the traditionally excellent 250gn 338's. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Ray & 416Tanzan surely love their 338WM, and why not? It is a fantastic medium bore! And it’s just about spot on to the Simpson Formula. Interesting, no? My wife and I have both hunted Africa and NA with the 338WM, and now we also both own a 338-06. Many will say this caliber is not needed if you own a 338WM, and ballistically, that would be hard to argue with. However, as I have stated before, for me (and even more so, my wife), recoil is a consideration. Also, the number of rounds in the magazine & weight of the rifle also mean something to us. Our 338-06s are both lighter and carry more rounds, plus, my wife has sworn off the 338WM due to recoil. So, for anyone out there in possession of a 338-06, I will also run it through the Simpson Formula for you. 338-06 W. 250 V. 2,475 C. .338 Calc. E. 3,400 M. 88 KO. 29 W. 225 V. 2,600 C. .338 calc. E. 3,376 M. 83 KO. 28 W. 210 V. 2,725 C. .338 Calc. E. 3,461 M. 81 KO. 27 It falls short of Simpson’s ideal medium bore, but is still a great medium. About the same as the famous 318 Westley Richards. For whatever weight bullet one chooses, the velocity just isn’t there for Energy, Momentum and KO values. Still, I would hunt with it for any size PG. I would choose another round for DG, but of course, it can work. 338WM W. 275 V. 2,500 C. .338 calc. E. 3,815 M. 98 KO. 33 Simpson’s Formula: W. 275 V. 2,500 C. .358 calc. E. 3,815 M. 98 KO. 35 So many great calibers, so little time... | |||
|
| One of Us |
For 338-06 ballistics I always thought the 338 RCM was cute. It would fit in a short action and allow for a lighter rifle. Almost got one for my wife but we settled on a 375 Ruger. The recoil isn't bad for her with 200gn GSC at 3100. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
|
| one of us |
I shot the 338-06 for some years, I liked the caliber, but for me it kicked as much as a 338 Win. probably because the gun was lighter..and I can load the 338Win down to 338-06 ballistics, but not visa versa..I really poke the powder down into my 328 Win by the way.. But when all is said and done, no argument here on any of this stuff, all these calibers work if you can shoot and use good bullets..Use what fits you..I would use about any gun mentioned and not feel unsafe may have to modify my hunting methods to make the lighter ones work but Ive done that many times over. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
|
One of Us |
I would also tend to favor the .338 Win. Mag. or the 9.3x62mm, and would give the edge to the .338 if pressed. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Well Guys, I just reported on another thread here on the new Ruger African 9.3x62, that my rifles just came in. They weighed 6 lbs. 15 oz.!! In my OP, I stated I was looking for a medium bore caliber to match or exceed Simpson’s Formula, but with three additional criteria: 1) light weight rifle 2) light recoil 3) good magazine capacity My conclusion after plugging a number of calibers into the formula was a 9.3x62, firing a 286 gr. bullet @ 2,450 fps. This new Ruger African will do the trick, with the lightest weight Ruger rifle that I own. The magazine holds (4) rounds, so it’s a 4+1 in the firepower dept. I now have yet to fire it to check the recoil, but I feel certain it won’t be any more than my 9.3x66 shooting factory ammo ( 286 gr. @ 2,550 fps ). We’ll see... The 338WM is very popular on this thread, and is a good choice. My 338WMs weigh around 8.5 lbs., without scope or rings, and offer much higher recoil. I still hunt them and love them as well. But if you lean towards a 9.3x62 instead, and enjoy light weight rifles, these new Ruger African 9.3x62s have just been released and they only made 250 of them. Just sayin’. | |||
|
| One of Us |
On the 338, I did just buy one. The rifle is not for me, but a gift to my father in law. Pre64 new in the box, the box has all tags and papers, 1960 Alaskan. I will do a post and send pics when it gets here. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Wow, there’s a rare find. NIB. Congrats! | |||
|
| one of us |
I owned 2 or 3 of the first run of Africans in 9.3x62..Its a sho nuff fine gun in a fine caliber, my went sky high in price so I sold them, My .338 in the same gun,never went high dollar, but it wasn't a special run of 250, that's what makes these gun worth big bucks, in any make or model so know your gun values, use your head... Maybe I'll sell my 338 African model for $800 and buy me a special run 9.3x62 for a bit more money, and use it for a year or two, then of course I will sell it..by then they should have another run of some rare caliber.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
|
| One of Us |
Ray, now that IS using your head! That is WHY I always buy two of these Africans when they come out... But I will also always keep one of them for myself; the best of the two, naturally! | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles The perfect medium bore for Africa
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia