I have never tried this combo before,
But i just dropped 58.5 grains under 20 barnes 150 grain ttsx.
I hope it shoots strait, i am at about .050 off the lands in my custom JC higgins model 50.
This rifle has an MPI stock timney trigger and a Leupold VX3 2.5x8 Can,t think of a better all around set up for the Oregon coast range.
If i can get decent groups i should be set. !
...tj3006

Forgot to mention that 414 is great in my7x57 and .257 roberts..fast and accurate. it is dirty though...tj3006

H-414 is the same powder as WW-760 and is made in the St. Marks, Florida ball powder plant formerly owned by Olin.

It is essentially a double-based ball ("spherical", if you're paying attention to copyrighted names) version of IMR-4350 in its typical burn rate -- although double vs. single-base powders can and do behave a bit differently according to the case size and bore they are used in.

The advantage I've found of H-414/WW-760 over IMR 4350 is that it is denser, so if the load you are attempting to use runs out of powder space with IMR-4350 you can get a couple of more grains of H-414/WW-760 into the case. The .30/06/150 combination might be one of those, depending on the characteristics of your rifle.

There is no way to predict just how this load will perform for you, but it is within reasonable parameters. Monometal bullets can behave somewhat erratically (both in terms of accuracy and terminal performance), so if you have accuracy difficulties I would look first at the bullet and second at the powder.

I have a 250 Sav AI I built about 30 years ago for my father and used 85-90 gr bullets and 4064. Somewhere along the line I found higher velo loads for H414 and started using that at pressures right at the MAP at ~53KPSI(relatively newly established).

I got the velos for certain, ~3200-3300 fs, and all worked well for several years and I used up several pounds of powder and hundreds of bullets.

The last pound of H414 I opened was different. I would get 7-10 rounds perfectly acceptable then I would hit one that would almost weld the case into the chamber.

This rifle was built on a Rem 22-250 788 action, used a SAAMI minimum reamer to cut the chamber in a 22" Douglas #2 contoured, air gauged barrel. Because of the rear locking lugs it had a bit of spring to it so I worked the sizing dies to minimally FL resize the case and shell holder that set the shoulder back
0.002" and use a custom Wilson neck sizer for the neck sizing 0.002" reduction below bullet dia.

The load was 98% density, I used benchrest techniques to reload, checked and rechecked but even at that one can get by now and then...that was what I thought initially...I screwed up somewhere.

I reloaded 5 more, set up the Oehler 33 and fired the first round...3250 fs, ezy eject, primer pocket just slightly flattened, no obvious pressure signs...next one 3256...next one 3252...next one...BAM... ~3400 and puff of gas/stuck case/locked bolt/locked jaws and a blue blizzard of undecipherable words coming out between my clinched teeth...

Break out the soft hammer, another killed extractor but the case did come out of the chamber intact, the primer pocket expanded half again the size of the primer and firing pin compressed and jammed flush with the bolt face.

I couldn't detect any damage/set back to the lugs or receiver, bolt/bolt face or firing pin after things settled down and the headspace was still ~0.004" as measured with a piece of shim stock between the bolt face and a sized case and a fired case measured with a headspace gauge. Remington's are tough actions.

That was enough for me and I burned that can of H414 powder and went to RL-15...a few grains less, slightly less pressure and velo, ~3230 with an SD of 2 and range of +/- 4 fs with Nosler 85 gr CT's, BR primers and fire formed WW brass, weight sorted, neck turned, all the fancies.

I'm using up the two cans(different batch number) of H414 I have left with a few larger case/cals now and then, mostly to use up oddball bullet weights or cast lead plonkers. but I don't trust it anymore

I don't know if I just got a bad can or if Hodgdon changed the formulation and got the burn rate messed up on a batch(highly unlikely) or what happened.

Stoney is right about what single vs double based AND for that matter what ball vs log powders do in various case/cals.

Now, I tend to think getting the last iota of speed is secondary to case/barrel/ME life expectancy so single based powders fit me better, but I still use double based powders in some applications at less than MAP pressures.

I've never had any problems like this with WW760 so IF they are identical powders, and QL shows IDENTICAL NUMBERS in all categories to H414, then the problem must be with the case/cal size...those two powders just react differently in that particular case volume at near 100% powder density and are prone to pressure excursions.

I have played around with just about every powder that is suitable for the 06, and settled on NORMA MRP which in it self is a really superb powder, then R17 came out and i have never looked back....get great performance with R17 across the entire spectrum of 06 bullet weights......especially the 180/200 gn proj...
with the 180 nosler its 2900 with 56 gns of R17 and with the 200 nosler its 2700 with 54 gns of R17

One of the most accurate loads in my record book for my old Mark II Ruger 06 was 58 grains of H 414 under a 165 Barnes X FB, the first version. .43" load at my 140 yard sight in range. I have a lot of success with H414 loads in 180's as well.

thanks for the input gentlemen.
Nonagonian , that's a strange situation in you ai!
I would not attempt a guess at it cause, other than a component problem.
My load is not real warm , compared to whats in the books.
My rifle has a bit of free bore, and with the slightly low sammi pressure specks adding a little margin of safety, i should be fine with the excellent fn action.
I figure from my 22 inch tube to get around 2900 or a little more.
Should make a real good load if it shoots reasonably strait.
I will watch out for erratic pressure signs certainly...tj3006

this load did not shoot so will in my 06.
I want to try RL 22 and or Norma Mrp.
Witch I found out yesterday is the same powder.
But i am in no great hurry as i found a great load for my pre 64 feather weight .308 that shot real tight groups. I think i will try that load witch was 48 grains of W 748 under a hornady flat base with the barns. What difference it would make on game between the .308 and the 06 is about none at all with a 150 grain bullet...tj3006

When I first started reloading, I used 4064 and 150 grain bullets in my 30-06. For years I heard 4350 was THE powder. I tried it. 4064 works much better for me.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
When I first started reloading, I used 4064 and 150 grain bullets in my 30-06. For years I heard 4350 was THE powder. I tried it. 4064 works much better for me.

I may have a go at that.. Do you have any chrono results from your loads or are you looking more at the accuracy?

I was looking for accuracy 1st velocity would be great too. I should be around 2900 from a 22 inch tube. I loaded more for my .308 with win 748..
tj3006

Wstrnhunter--I was going for accuracy. Funny thing when I selected 4064 powder almost 50 years ago, I was looking for one that would be suitable for all weight bullets. Gosh, a wide range of bullet weights is a reason for getting a 30-06. In truth I use 150 grainers for all--to include the moose I got and the one my wife shot.

I recommend that if your a reloader keep a stock of Fed 215 mag primers on hand.
If your not getting results with slow powders try swapping in the mag primer before you quit on a recipe.

Ball powder especially.

I couldn't argue this one way or the other; it's just a news blast from the past.

When Bruce Hodgdon first started selling H-414 he advertised it as the "perfect" burn rate for 150 and 180 grain bullets in the .30-06...just a tiny red hair faster than 4350, he said.

I didn't personally like it near as well as 4895 and 4350...it seemed I always got loads that were not supposed to be maximum according to his loading manual, but actually WERE maximum. Also, I found that as it aged, it was much more likely to clump than any of the stick powders I was using. That meant that unless the handloader was really careful to keep the clumps broken up, it was easy to get both light powder charges and heavy charges, rather than exactly right ones.

But that may have just been the lots I happened to come by and try. Quien Sabe?

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
When I first started reloading, I used 4064 and 150 grain bullets in my 30-06. For years I heard 4350 was THE powder. I tried it. 4064 works much better for me.

Jack O'Connor and a lot of Camp Perry shooters liked 4064 as their go-to accuracy powder for the '06 too.

I used 4895 instead because in those days it was available at much cheaper costs (as surplus military stores of it were sold off by the gov't), and still did an excellent job...the U.S. military used 4895 as their primary powder for the '06 pretty much all through WWII...even though they had switched to "ball" powder for the last couple of years. Ball powder is both faster and cheaper to manufacture.

My rule of thumb for loading ball powders (can do with all powders).

You want a load density of 90% or more of case volume ideally.

I happen to use a RCBS powder measure.

Shake the powder container good (not hard tho).

Pour powder measure nearly to the top with powder.

Now l take a piece of dowel and rap on the side of the powder measure several times near bottom of measure on the metal just below clear plastic column. Powder should show signs of settling somewhat.

Then l throw ten charges and dump them all back in. Powder should now be completely settled and charges stay uniform.

I use a long tube funnel for optimum drop and powder compactness.

Then l start actual throwing charges and filling cases.

Weigh at least every few to check that powder charge is correct and stable. (or everyone...as you like)

Never let the powder level in the measure get down more than a few inches down from near top level, Refill powder as needed.

***Keep penetrating lubes away from anything that might contaminate powder or loads.

Of course all powders should be stored in cool dry place. Same with ammo.

If case capacity is 06 size or more go with magnum primers l just went to Fed 215 exclusive and they have been super for me. (ball powders can be a bit harder to ignite than log types)
If you see any ignition issues try mag primers.


I developed this method and it has worked totally reliably for me for many years and thousands of rounds.

Good luck

I might try 4064.
Its great in my .308. But unless it gets me a bunch more speed than my .308 i might as well stick with the shorter round as save on powder...tj3006