The longest shots I have ever taken were paced off at 320 yards on a whitetail buck and 280 paces on a bull moose; made both kills.

I always try to get as close as the situation will allow, but I really do not think about shot distances and only react as the situation dictates.

I despise the LONG RANGE "hunting" thing, Beyond Belief, that I have seen posted on the internet. Shooting at 600 yards to 1,000 yards should only be at paper, not animals.

Exactly, Demonical. I like to hunt my game rather than snipe it........

Speaking of internet/arm chair hunters.........and a quote from the peanut gallery:

quote:

Originally posted by katiesguns:
300 and 400 hundred yard shots are for shooters 100 and less are for hunters

But to answer the question at hand: If my guide says take the shot- I take the shot. Having a range finder helps make the decision. But no, there is no self imposed limit.

fmc I believe I would find out how hunting a person has done before I opened my mouth and make fool out of oneself. I don't have to justify my opinion to some jerk off who doesn't know me or know of me. Want put records--we can do so.

I usually judge each shot on it's own conditions. Depending upon which gun I'm shooting decides how far I will shoot with it.
I shoot a lot out to 600 yards and I've shot and killed medium sized animals (deer, antelope, etc.) from 5 yards to 450 yards.

I don't even think about shots out to 300 yards, those are chip shots.

Every hunter needs to know his/her limitations. And each one of us should shoot within our comfort zone.

What's a chip shot? roger

My longest shot at a whitetail here in PA was a bit over 100 yards. Not many areas that I hunt here are open enough for more than that. Many areas 40 yards is about the max. Lots of thick stuff. I mostly use my 35 whelen here.

I killed my bull elk last year at 310 yards. Hit him 4 out of 5 shots from that first hit (through the lungs) to my last hit in the neck at 365 yards. I just kept shooting till he fell. Al of this was with a run of the mill 30-06 using 180 grain noslers.

I shoot a lot of long distance over the summer at groundhogs in huge, open fields. Shots of 400 -500 yards are common. After doing that.....a bull elk...at 300 yards is not hard at all. Even at 2.5x.

quote:

Originally posted by Iron Buck:
I killed my bull elk last year at 310 yards. Hit him 4 out of 5 shots .

My !! That's a good average. roger

Some can make those shots....and some can't. Here are the pictures of my bull & the bowl I shot him in. The ranges I tok with mu laser range finder.I was on top of the ridge at the upper tree line when I first shot. He did not go to far before he finally fell. That is the point of this thread. Know what your own threashold is & stick to it. I am certain there are peopel here that could do teh same thing at even further ranges, but this is about as far as I care to shoot at a big game animal.

I limit myself to ~250 yards (with a rifle.) I have proved (to myself) that I am able to shoot accurately farther than that...but I LIKE to hunt more than I like to shoot or kill. I have missed opportunities at animals I was trying to get closer to....but then, after all, my handle does end with recurve!

"Hitting" something at great distance is possible but shot placement is not always good and the energy the round delivers has fallen way off.
I gather some of you have not seen a bullet drift 12" in the wind.

A lot of long range shooters would not hunt elk with a 30-30 but that may be the energy level delivered at long range by their favorite rifle.

300 is my max and I like 200 or less a lot better yet.

Not my limit, but for some it's the moon
and I know a few blokes who claim to have hit it.

My maximum is 350, much more confortable at 250 down. My longest Elk is 299 lazered, Deer is 329 paced. I took a Caribou at 399 with one shot but didn't feel very sure of myself until he bit the dust with one shot. Good shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by Iron Buck:
My longest shot at a whitetail here in PA was a bit over 100 yards. Not many areas that I hunt here are open enough for more than that. Many areas 40 yards is about the max. Lots of thick stuff. I mostly use my 35 whelen here.

I killed my bull elk last year at 310 yards. Hit him 4 out of 5 shots from that first hit (through the lungs) to my last hit in the neck at 365 yards. I just kept shooting till he fell. Al of this was with a run of the mill 30-06 using 180 grain noslers.

I shoot a lot of long distance over the summer at groundhogs in huge, open fields. Shots of 400 -500 yards are common. After doing that.....a bull elk...at 300 yards is not hard at all. Even at 2.5x.

Iron Buck,

Lots of my groundhog hunting was done on farms in the Mars, PA area.

Don

quote:

Iron Buck,

Lots of my groundhog hunting was done on farms in the Mars, PA area.

Don

JPFO
NRA Benefactor Life Member
NSSA Life Member

Don,

Much of that area is developed now. Still some open spaces...but NOTHING like 10 or so years ago. I guess that is progress.

I do 90% of my groundhog hunting uo in Butler County, ouitside of Portersville. It is a 300 acre farm with lots of shots in the 400 to 500 yard range. One area allows us to shoot at over 700 yards. My best shot yet is at 550 yards. The area where we can shoot 700 yards has a groundhog that we have ranged at 728 yards. Between my brother & I we have shot at him maybe 4 times.All misses! But they have been VERY close. Within 1 yard or so of him. The little 22 caliber bullet is tough to judge windwise at that distance. DRop is not as hard as long as you have a spotter to let you know where you are hitting.

Groundhog hunting is the best practice I have found for getting used to shooting....and hitting..at extended ranges. I try to get out at least once a week over the course of the summer.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:


Sorry if I come accross as condescending Not really my intent.Every week I spend time on the range shooting from 50 to 600 yds Plus.

maybe you should spend a day or two working on your stalking skills. then you wouldnt have to shoot deer at 500 yards.

Most of my hunting is in Africa and the Rocky Mountain West. From records, my median shot length is 115 yards.

Have twice shot at animals at 400 yards and was successful -- one kudu and one red lechwe. Took a 6 x 7 elk at less than 25 yards with a Ruger Bisley.

My self-imposed limit these days is 200 yards. While have a good track record of one shot stops, have had to take a second shot and even a third shot on occasion. The second shot has almost always been longer than the first.

Practice a lot out to 300 yards in field positions. My range allows me to practice out past 1,000 yards, even past a mile. Under the best of conditions can hit my steel simulation targets way on out there, but under rushed field conditions figure 300 yards is my limit and be fair to the game animal.

Figure 200 yards for the first shot leaving me still confident at 300 yards for a second shot.

Feel like the first shot should leave room for a confident second shot given a wounded animal heading for far regions in tough terrain and unfavorable conditions.

If I feel like I can't get closer than 200 yards for the first shot on unalert game, what makes me think I will get closer than that for a finishing shot on highly alert wounded game in worse conditions ?

Have hunted successfully with a wide range of calibers from the 243 to 500 Nitro with 308, 30-06, 378 Wby, 460 Wby, etc thrown into the mix. These days use calibers slightly more than minimally necessary for added insurance. Have had to track a few wounded animals and care for that less each time. Think shooting first at shorter distance and with a little extra horsepower reduces that element.

One zebra that according to the PH was hit well from a 30-06/180 Nosler Partition with the first shot comes to mind. Today would use a 375 H&H with 300 Swift A-frames or similar on zebra though have been successful with 7 x 57, 308, and 30-06 on zebra.


Does not count prairie dogs. With my KelTec 32, keep my shots under 10 yards. The KelTec 380 bucks the wind better than the 32 so will give it 15 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by Hammer:
Most of my hunting is in Africa and the Rocky Mountain West. From records, my median shot length is 115 yards.

Have twice shot at animals at 400 yards and was successful -- one kudu and one red lechwe.

My self-imposed limit these days is 200 yards. While have a good track record of one shot stops, have had to take a second shot and even a third shot on occasion. The second shot has almost always been longer than the first. Practice a lot out to 300 yards in field positions. Figure 200 yards for the first shot leaving me still confident at 300 yards for a second shot.

Feel like the first shot should leave room for a confident second shot given a wounded animal heading for far regions in tough terrain and unfavorable conditions.

If I feel like I can't get closer than 200 yards for the first shot on unalert game, what makes me think I will get closer than that for a finishing shot on highly alert wounded game in worse conditions ?

Have hunted successfully with a wide range of calibers from the 243 to 500 Nitro with 308, 30-06, 378 Wby, 460 Wby, etc thrown into the mix. These days use calibers slightly more than minimally necessary for added insurance. Have had to track a few wounded animals and care for that less each time. Think shooting first at shorter distance and with a little extra horsepower reduces that element. One zebra that according to the PH was hit well from a 30-06/180 Nosler Partition with the first shot comes to mind. Today would use a 375 H&H with 300 Swift A-frames or similar.


Does not count prairie dogs. With my KelTec 32, keep my shots under 10 yards. The KelTec 380 bucks the wind better than the 32 so will give it 15 yards.

Is that lasered or paced yard with the Keltecs?

The KelTec ranges are foot pace measured by my 12 year old who has shot more of them with the KelTec than I have.

He thinks that getting real close to a prairie dog then using a KelTec is neater than anything.

Requires a lot of concentration for the stalk, poor sights, and horrible double action only trigger in a less than 10 ounce pocket pistol. But he likes it.

Sometimes he moves up to a S&W Model 10 M&P 38 Special. His success rate goes up but he considers it cheating. I like the single-action sheriff's model 45 for close shots.

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:


Sorry if I come accross as condescending Not really my intent.Every week I spend time on the range shooting from 50 to 600 yds Plus.

maybe you should spend a day or two working on your stalking skills. then you wouldnt have to shoot deer at 500 yards.

( condesending)

Sounds about right to me. Now let's see : what is the definition of condesending? roger

Each person needs to set their own limits for their first shot at game animals.

Should be set based on repeated demonstrated to themselves skill under the stress of field conditions. Should keep in mind what happens next after the first shot has been fired. Should assume any animal shot at it is hit, perhaps nonfatally, but hit none the less.

For some that range may be 50 yards. For some it may be 1,000 yards. But the hunter should be truthful to themselves about what will happen in the field when that shot is taken under poor conditions near dusk.

the place to test equipment is at the range not in the field on live animals that you supposedly have respect for.
if you are incapable on closing in on a deer that is 500 yards away your not much of a hunter in my book. in truth your not a hunter at all. you may be a great shot and fantasic at reading wind and calculating trajectory, but, shooting a deer at 500 yards has very little in common with hunting.
besides...
whats time in flight for a 30 cal at a 2700 MV? 7/10th's of a sec? long time for a deer to take a single step and put a sub MOA shooters bullet into a ham instead of a heart.

Giving myself a 300 yard limit is really giving me the benifit of the doubt. I think 250 would be closer to the truth and then only if it was a trophy animal, the conditions were close to perfect and I couldn't get closer before I ran out of light.
If you want to have some fun, get a couple of deer siloquetes (spl) and place them at know distances acrost bean fields or large pastures and have folks estimate how far they are away. Especially those folks that say "I laid that cross hair flat along his back and kilt him dead at 700 yards".

Not all animals that you spot at 500, 700, or 900 yards stick around long enough for you to stalk them. Sometimes those game animals are close to property lines and will be long gone by the time the "hunter" closes the distance from 500 yards to 250.

What if you've already closed the distance on a deer from 2000 yards to 500? Are you still "not much of a hunter?"

I see both sides of this coin. Many will opine that if you take the time and effort to arrange a hunt, spend hours practicing your shooting skills, buy all the necessary equipment, get drawn, hunt hard for 5 days and on and on, and FINALLY, you see the buck you've dreamt about, you spot him a mile away, you close the distance to 492 yards, you have an 1/2 hour of legal shooting light left, BUT YOU CAN'T HIT A DEER AT ONLY 492 YARDS???!! (what the hell kind of hunter is that?) "Not much of one in my book."

See where I'm going? The last statement is NOT my opinion, but there are plenty with it. The "shooting distance with a rifle and where you are no longer a hunter but now a shooter" stuff is getting VERY old.

Each time I read this crap I keep saying to myself, I'm not going to reply, but I wind up doing it anyway.

If you can only shoot a rifle at 200 yards, great. If you have the skill to cleanly take a deer at ~500 yards and you CANNOT close the distance for whatever reason, perhaps you have a disability (seems to be ignored by some who are quick to call you a bad hunter because you cannot stalk like they can), well, you are still a hunter in my book. Not that my opinion is worth anything, but I'm not into slamming or condeming HUNTERS who are better skilled than me.

(And don't forget, many bowhunters think that taking up a rifle and killing anything with it is just plain "shooting" anyway. I've always been of the opinion that I "hunt" with a bow. I "shoot" my rifle, whether at game or targets. So, I guess that makes me a shooter 100% of the time when I rifle hunt. )

The number of people who can cleanly take a deer at 500 yards with a rifle consistently is almost nil. The problem with this new obsession with long range shooting is that too many people who do not have the ability to shoot at long range are beginning to think it is normal to shoot at 400 or even 500 yards. I don't care how good of a shot you are, potting at animals at 500 yards is going to dramatically increase your odds of losing an animal. Is that acceptable? In my opinion it is not.

Has everyone completely lost sight of what hunting is supposed to be about? Is it really hunting to shoot an animal at 500 yards? I can't shoot that far, and have no interest in developing my shooting skills to that end. The reason is that I would not be very proud of animal taken that way. This whole trend is NOT in the best interest of of our sport.

Understand the amount of time and equipment people invest in becoming great shots and developing hunting skills. Do not want to take anything away from their investment.

But the best hunters and shots that ever lived have had animals that were not impressed with their first hit, even at point blank range. Just think the hunter at dusk on the last day with his 492 yard shot should be prepared for the same.

quote:

Originally posted by DC Roxby:
The number of people who can cleanly take a deer at 500 yards with a rifle consistently is almost nil.

according to whom?

quote:

This whole trend is NOT in the best interest of of our sport.

I don't think most hunters have a desire to be able to pop a game animal at long distance anyway. Most like to stalk up as close as possible. I know I prefer it. I'd rather be inside of 40 yards on any shot with any tool!

Wasn't it Nancy Pelosi who recently said something like "any person shooting at anything over 100 yards is nothing but a sniper and they're shooting a weapon designed for snipers. One hundred yards is a VERY long distance! It's the length of an entire football field." She's trying to classify any hunting rifle with a scope as a sniper rifle.

Like I said in my original post, each person needs to know their own limits and stay in their comfort zone.

I have bear hunted 3 years in a row now in Alberta. Each time I've asked why they put the baits so close to the stands and the answer is always the same. "We have hunters miss all the time." To these people, putting a hunter on a stand and having a bait 50 yards away is unthinkable. "That's way to far to make a good shot."

quote:

I can't shoot that far, and have no interest in developing my shooting skills to that end.

Ahhhhhh, I think this is what it really boils down to. So, because you can't and have no desire, that makes it wrong? Unethical? Man, there are LOTS of people who shoot at distances of 500 yards on a very regular basis, and are VERY consistent, AND confident. Maybe you just don't know anyone who does it, I don't know.

500 yards is NOT a long shot. And it is WELL within the capabilities of your average HPR.

There are LOTS of hunters who can shoot 500 yards under field conditions? I know exactly zero.

What percentage of the hunting population would you say can routinely and humanely kill a deer at 500 yards with one shot under field conditions?

I have hunted for 30 years and have killed over 50 big game animals with a rifle and have lost exactly none, so I must be doing something right.

The truth is that there are VERY few hunters who can shoot 500 yards at a deer in the real world and be confident of a single killing shot.

And given the fact that the vast majority of the time, 500 yards can be narrowed, there are VERY, VERY few cases where a 500 yard shot can be justified in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by DC Roxby:
There are LOTS of hunters who can shoot 500 yards under field conditions? I know exactly zero.

I personally know 4 but know of at least 35 or so. Based on your opinions, it isn't a surprise that you know exactly zero because you do not share the same philosophy. But there's nothing wrong with that.

quote:

What percentage of the hunting population would you say can routinely and humanely kill a deer at 500 yards with one shot under field conditions?

That question is unanswerable. Any attempt by anyone would be nothing more than a guess. I have no idea what the combined hunting population is in this world, so trying to describe such a ratio isn't possible. Moreover I didn't suggest that taking long pokes should be "routine" by anyone. (maybe you should take another look at my post where I comment on my preferred shot distances).

quote:

I have hunted for 30 years and have killed over 50 big game animals with a rifle and have lost exactly none, so I must be doing something right.

Great! Sounds like you are, and I think you'd be an excellent mentor for many new hunters.

quote:

The truth is that there are VERY few hunters who can shoot 500 yards at a deer in the real world and be confident of a single killing shot.

According to whom? I don't know that this is indeed the truth. Isn't this really just your opinion based on your experience?

quote:

And given the fact that the vast majority of the time, 500 yards can be narrowed, there are VERY, VERY few cases where a 500 yard shot can be justified in my opinion.

I agree. We should all try to close the distance when possible. But when those very few cases do occur, it is nice for those with the skill to cleanly take the shot and get their animal. Whether anyone wishes to classify these folks as "shooters" or "hunters" is up to them. But if everything is right, and the person pulling the trigger has lots of trigger time and they know what the rifle will do at that elevation and with the current temperature, with their load, well....hey, I don't have a problem with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:

What if you've already closed the distance on a deer from 2000 yards to 500? Are you still "not much of a hunter?"

iv closed that distance on an ATV.
theres a big difference in the hunter whgo gets from 500-200 vs. the guy who gets from 2000-500 and cant get closer.

finding the exact spot a deer was standing at 500 yards away to begin the tracking is a skill most dont have. how many shooters hit a deer poorly and since he doesnt fall down figure a miss and never go to check, or go to check and cant find the exact spot?

quote:

Originally posted by DC Roxby:
There are LOTS of hunters who can shoot 500 yards under field conditions? I know exactly zero.

What percentage of the hunting population would you say can routinely and humanely kill a deer at 500 yards with one shot under field conditions?

I have hunted for 30 years and have killed over 50 big game animals with a rifle and have lost exactly none, so I must be doing something right.

The truth is that there are VERY few hunters who can shoot 500 yards at a deer in the real world and be confident of a single killing shot.

And given the fact that the vast majority of the time, 500 yards can be narrowed, there are VERY, VERY few cases where a 500 yard shot can be justified in my opinion.

I totally agree. 40 some years ago I use to hunt just ENE of Ouray. Climb and sit a spell as I remember. Great country. roger