I am in the process of planning my new rifle. It will be built on a Win M70 action. I will primarily hunt deer in Texas and Michigan, so I need something that shoots flat but has the muscle for large bodied deer. A future elk hunt is not out of the question. So I had decided on the 300wm but would be open to other suggestions. My inital short list was
30/06
.280 AI
300 wm
338/06
that got narrowed to
300wm
.280 AI

I am curious as to a 338/06 vs 338wm decision. I have owned 300wm in a ruger with a burris scope but I have no idea as to the weight. Recoil was ok but how much worse will it be in a 338? The gunsmith I have in mind doesn't have the 338/06 reamer and I would have to convince him to buy it, he also has the 338 lapua not the 338wm reamer, any difference between the 2 (338wm vs 338 lapua)?

Andrew

PS Have any of you guys had any expirence with HS rifles, the complete rifle. I want to hear it all good and bad! Was thinking of one of theirs and keeping the winchester to try my own gnsmithing- kind of a test mule so to speak. The win is a black shadow nib in .270 .

[ 08-25-2003, 00:10: Message edited by: navrunner1 ]

I have a .300 H&H and just got back from the range shooting my new .338WM. I really can't tell much difference in recoil between the two.

The .300WM will handle elk and be more than enough for deer. The .338 is just more of that. And you can find ammo for either one easily.

If your short list is 300winnie or .280ai and you handload, I would go .280ai. This is a great deer round out to any reasonable range & w/ 160grNP @ close to 2900fps, it will handle your elk. A lighter rifle & less recoil, easy decision.

I know I probably won't go wrong with either but was leaning towards the winny for bullet choices, if they don't make it for the 30 cal you probably don't need it! Yes I do reload but having always believed the 270 was light on elk and I was told the 280 isn't much different I was worried/mildly concerned about on game performance with the AI. I am partialy color blind so I need to plant the deer right there. It is difficult for me to see blood on leaves in the fall, not impossible but I have to work at it, therefore I prefer not ot have to do alot of tracking! This makes me pretty particular in my shot placement. And my father or brother is always there (in camp usually, they can't seem to sit all day dawn to dusk!) so I get help when I need to.

Any comments on an good ring and base combo for the Win M70? Was looking at a Zeiss VM/V 30mm in 3-12.

The MAJOR factor influencing how recoil feels is rifle weight. Next is bullet weight, then powder weight, then MV. Steve's pages (Steve Ricciardelli) have a recoil calculator which is excellent, but you have to know the above factors to get an answer....

navrunner1, if you can handle a .300 WM you'll have no problem handling a .338 WM. If an elk hunt(or even larger bear) is in the future, you may want to consider the .338 WM. It has good reach and power. You can go to 210 gr. partitions for deer and 250 gr. foe the larger stuff. If you like to keep it simple like I do, a 230 grain Fail Safe is an excellent alternative.

I am definately not looking to have a 6lb rifle. Had a rem modle 7 mountain in 308. Damn near lost 2 teeth shooting that thing.

Any info on the 338 lapua vs the 338 wm?

Andrew

[ 08-25-2003, 00:05: Message edited by: navrunner1 ]

I have heard thet 200 nosbt's in the 338 are the ticket for deer. The last deer I shot was 180lbs and I used a 3006 duplicate of the win load with moly coated 180 bt's went through both shoulders and the deer looked like he was electrocuted. dropped where he was standing at 40 yards.

Andrew

The 338 Lapua will take a longer action and bigger bolt face than the 338 Win Mag along with about 30% more recoil. The Lapua really competes with the 338 RUM and ammo/brass is very expensive.

IMHO, the 338 Win is your best bet for these applications. LOTs of great factory loads, many with premuim bullets. The Hornady Heavy Mag and Federal High Energy 338 offerings match the factory loads for the 338 RUM if you want to reach way out yonder. The winnie also shoots reduced loads very accurately and efficiently if you have that option. Full power Nosler 180 Ballistic tips match the trajectory of the 300 RUM, again good for thin skinned game way out there. The same bullet at 2700 fps with H4895 drives tacks and is much like a factory 30-06.

A 300 gr Woodleigh or Hawk driven at 2475 fps by IMR 7828 will drop anything on the planet. The shoot everything combo is the Speer 225 .338 in front of R19 at 2950 fps...velocity is not scorching, but fast enough to shoot flat as a 300 Win Mag. Won't blow up a deer at 50 yards, and will still go end to end on a bull Elk.

Good hunting!

[ 08-25-2003, 03:49: Message edited by: Sabot ]

The problem is fellas- the more I talk to you guys the more I want the 338 ! May have to convince the g-smith to make the purchase of the .338 wm reamer! Maybe, as more than likely this is the only gun I will be able to afford exactly as I want, I should go the .338 route and just be ready for any animal that needs taking!

I have noticed others quoting the lbs of recoil a parcticular rifle makes, where could I find the formula for this or quotes on the recoil of the 338 in common loads, may want a muzzle brake (removable) on the range ok but I have never felt recoil when puttin' a critter down.

Any scope reccomendations to hold up? Was looking at the Zeiss in 30mm VM/V series.

Andrw

navrunner1, I think you'll be happy with the .338 WM, it's a good choice. Recoil will depend on a lot of factors concerning proper LOP, stock design and weight. I find a rifle in that calibre is pretty good in the 8�-9 lb. range with scope and everything. I think you'll find a 2X7 compact will be plenty for what you need.

Ya I think I would be happy with the .338 BUT..... Charlie Sisk has one of his BR-shooters ready to go in .300 wm for $2900. More than I wanted to spend but I could have it now!

Andrew

PS the .338 would be in a McMillan stock at 13.5 LOP with a hart barrel in a slightly heavier than normal contour- just 1 step up, really haven't looked/decided on contour, was gonna go over that at order time with the 'smith I want.

If you had to have a bore over 30 caliber, then I would recommend hands down the 338/06. It is 100 to 150 fps at most behind a 338 Mag, but with a major reduction in recoil.

You still can never go wrong with a plain old '06.

I personally prefer a 6.5 mm or a 7mm cartridge for deer hunting. With the heavier bullets they are up to the task of Elk. A 6.5 x 55 or a 7 x57 will do pretty much what an '06 will do, with about 40 to 50 % less recoil.

However, you can walk into any rural hardware store or Walmart and get a box of 30/06 ammo.
If you are not going to handload, then the other choices are a waste of time.

As far as the 300 Mag, it will do for you what an /06 will do about 50 to 75 yrds further out, and with a 50% plus increase in recoil. The value of that has to be your own decision. As for me, I hand load an '06 and it is not even the 50 to 75 yds behind the factory loaded 300 Mag ammo.

Just passing on what I know to help you make your decision. And if you have $2950.00 to drop on a rifle, buying factory stuff, you won't have to make up your mind, you can buy one of each and for the Ackley Improved, just have a smith ream out the chamber!