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About what speeds would the 8mm06 be around shooting 180 and 195/200 grain bullets? And what barrell length would be best? I like the 8 mm mauser, I loaded 195/200 grain for elk and 150's for deer in the past. I was just seeing if there would be any advantages or would it be best to just stick with the 8x57. I wouldnt mind having a little more reach. Not sure what brands of bullets I'll be using. Just thinking of making a hunting rifle. | ||
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Just a bit faster than the parent 30-06 did. Great round but so is the plain old 8x57 loaded to full pressure. Ever shoot any of the 198 machine gun ammo? Real deal there I assure you. Back in the more expedient days of use I would pull the fmj bullets and seat a 200 Speer spitzer. Hammer of Thor on big NE whitetails. I sure wish I had another case of that Portuguese ammo. "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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If you do the 8mm-06 you should open up the magazine as far as possible without major surgery, 3.375" can be done with nothing more than some skillful work with a mill file. Otherwise, there will be little improvement over "adult" 8x57 loads.  I get similar performace from RL-17 and 200gr Speer Hotcor bullets.
8X57 loaded to adult pressure works pretty well on big Northern NY whitetails too.   8mm-06 loaded at 3.34" OAL will better that by about 70 fps at similar pressure, not a significant improvement given the expense. If your chamber has an eroded throat, then elongating the magazine and going 8mm-06 is a good option. If you want the get the most out of it, go with the 8MM-06 Ackley Improved. You will gain yet another 100+ fps and brass will last significantly longer. (with some creativity, the magazine can be further opened up to about 3.5" without cutting or welding) At 3.420" OAL I'm getting 2900 fps @ < 60K chamber pressure with slightly compressed loads of Norma MRP and 200gr Speer Hotcor bullets. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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Fury 01 no I havnt tried machine gun loads. So theres not much difference then I thought there would be unless I go to the Ackley version. I wouldnt mind hearing more of 8mm06 Ackley. On my elk load I used Xbr and 200 gr Speers. Worked well in my 8x57. Its time for a new barrell. I got a M48 Yugo I'm using. | |||
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You could take a real step up and go for the 8x64, just something to consider. | |||
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Kennedy, your Yugo is an intermediate length action, magazine length of 2.232", much to short for anything longer than the 8x57. | |||
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The 8mm/06 pretty much duplicates the 338-06 or the 35 Whelen, that's a pretty good jump IMO..The 8mm Brown Whelen would be even more and pretty close to the 358 Norma..I would suggest a 24 inch barrel to get ultimate performance, and a 26 even better, but that's a choice option..Bottom line is you would pick up a good deal of velocity, and that wouldn't hurt on elk for instance. I compare the 8x57 balistically to the .308 Win. from a practical point of view, about a 100 FPS slower than the 30-06 with good handloads..I like the 8x57 for what that's worth. The Ackely is a good bet and lengthening the action magizine is a walk in the park..You have a lot of nice options. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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that round was very common back in the 50-60 era guys would bring back mausers but couldn't find 8x57 ammo but rechambering for he 06 case solved the problem. i well remember the machinegun 8x57 ammo- it was some really hot stuff that booted your shoulder around pretty well | |||
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I will give it some thought. Could i just have some gunsmith lengthen the magazine or would I have to find a replacement? I know there has to be someone on AR. | |||
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Yours is a Yugoslavian intermediate length M98. You can't lengthen it enough for 8mm-06 without butchering the magazine. Loaded at 3.21" OAL (the maximum length for your I. L. magazine) the 8mm-06 Ackley Improved will only best the 8x57 by about 100fps. In order for Ackley Improved cases to stack properly in the magazine for proper feeding, you will need to mill the sides out for the larger shoulder diameter of the A. I. case. You might be able to lengthen the magazine to 3.30" by thinning out the front and rear walls of the box. The intermediate length actions are .250 shorter than the standard M98 action while the internal magazine length is only .090" shorter. The I. L. actions are already nearly maxed out and do not have as much room for expansion as the S. L. actions. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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Again, at similar pressures, in a 23 1/2" barrel, the 308 lags behind the 8X57 by nearly 150fps or more with 200gr bullets and the 30-06 can barely keep up. Even if the .308 is loaded to 2K greater chamber pressure than the 8X57 it still lags by over 130 fps. the .323 bore has 10% more area for the pressure to act upon. The .308 with that smaller bore area also has a case volume that is 13% less, (63gr H2O vs 56gr H20) The "usable" case volume is further reduced given that the bullet must be seated deeper into the case for the .308 to function in the short actions it was designed for. With 200gr Nosler Partitions seated to SAMMI OAL the usable case volume for the .308 is 45.4gr H2O while the 8X57 has 58.2gr H2O of usable case volume. That is now a 28% penalty in "usable" case volume for the .308. How can pressure from 28% less powder acting on 10% less bore area achieve equal ballistics? The laws of physics make that impossible. The 30-06 has the same usable case volume as the 8X57 when loaded with a 200gr Partition at SAMMI OAL spec so it is still operating at that 10% less bore area with the same powder volume. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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Unless there was a reason like I couldn't get 8x57 brass or dies. I wouldn't bother the 8x57 pushes bullets plenty fast to kill things. I shoot a rather mild load using a 185gr Remington cor-loc at 2550 fps. the load kills very well. Would it be my first choice for long range elk no out to 300 yards no problems. | |||
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I make my 8X57 cases from once fired Lake City 30-06 brass that I picked up at the local range. When my son was shooting the M1 Garand in the CMP qualifying program, I gathered enough to fill a 5 gallon bucket about 2/3 full. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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Heym sold a ton of Commercial intermediate Yugo action chambered in both .270 and .30-06. They simply cut the front out of the magazine. All that said, loaded to equal pressures, there is not enough practical difference in the 8x57 and 8mm-06 AI to warrant me messing with the AI. What my 8x57 or 8x60S can't do, my 8x68 will.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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AKA "butchering".
I hardly think 200 fps with a 200gr bullet is "not enough practical difference". Although it does require a full 3.5" length magazine GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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Interesting thread. Back to the original question: I get 2,750 fps + with my 8mm-06, using Barnes 200 gr. X bullets for hunting. I use the Speer 200 gr. for general shooting. | |||
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I'm looking for an 8x64S, preferably in a Brno ZG-47. Anyone know where I might find one? | |||
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My longest shot at a mule deer was close to 300 yards using 150 grainers. The longest on my last bull was about 250 yds, with 200 grain speers. Thats with the old 8mm mauser. A few times I coulda used a flatter shooting round. Yes theres faster calibers out there but I like the 323 diameter. I would probably say where I hunt at the longest shot would be around 500 yards which I think the 8x57 can work. I got the action and barrell, thought would ask first cause this will be the first rifle I will have built. | |||
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My average shots are 200 yards or less. Maybe I'll just stick with the mauser but my mind aint made up yet. I got LC brass to make out of. | |||
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A hunter should keep in mind that the straight cases don't eject well when pressures are high and the 40* shoulder of the Ackley improved cases don't feed well. The tapers on the standard cases are there for a reason. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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How accurate are your 150gr bullets loads. My 8x57 with a military take off barrel shoots 200gr bullets best.  Using the more modern high energy powders you should be able to get 2730 fps with 200gr bullets and about 3070 fps with 150gr Speer Hotcors out of the military length barrel at just under 60K chamber pressure. Given those Mv values and sighted in for maximum PBR + or - 3", the 200gr Speer HCs sighted in with the LOS 1.7" above the bore axis at 231 yds woud be 6.1" low at 300 yds with nearly 2000 ft# of energy. The 150gr HCs sighted in at 254 yds would be 3.4" low at 300 yds with 1730 ft# of energy. That is only 2.7" difference and would still allow holding near the top of the vitals for a solid hit. If your 8X57 is anything like mine as far as an accuracy preference for 200gr bullets, there seems to be little benefit in using the 150gr pills. How is your barrel? Has it been "turned" yet. If it is accurate and hasn't been turned yet, I have a drawing that will allow the "steps" to be turned out while leaving the maximum amount of material for the best stability.     It will make a nice quick handling rifle that will weigh about 7 1/2# with a Leupold VX-2 3-9X40 or similar scope as pictured below. This rifle is built on a VZ-500 Yugoslavian M98 action which is the commercial counterpart of your M48 Yugo.  GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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That about 20-50 FPS better than an 8X57 loaded to 30-06 pressure with the 200gr Speer bullets. Although to be fair, the 8X57 would be hard pressed to do that with 200gr monolithic bullets. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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If you use the original Mauser formula for the 60 degree cartridge stack and mill the magazine walls out for the larger shoulder diameter of the "Improved" case at the point where the shoulder contact the magazine sides, it will feed slicker'n snot on a door knob and will also allow loading 5 down if the follower is worked a little.. If you don't perform this modification, the shoulders will "bridge" and the head end of the cartridges will "float" about. The Mauser formula keeps a constant contact from the cartridge head to the shoulder on three sides at a 60 degree stack angle. It uses the sine of 60 degrees times the diameter + the diameter to determine the proper width of the magazine. .866 X D + D = magazine width. This relationship must be constant along the magazine walls for the entire distance from the cartridge head to the shoulder. To be technical, even a 30-06 won't feed as Paul Mauser designed the magazine box without this modification and the .308 based cartridges will suffer even more. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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The barrell is original m48 havnt been shot i got off of AR, same with the action. My other mauser i had was a Bruno, I traded it for another gun. Bad mistake. It grouped a little over an inch with the 150's and 200 gr. I used XBR by imr for the 200 gr. I got the actual grain i used in my notes. | |||
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Your M48 Yugo barrel should be very similar to a M98K barrel. Below is a drawing of the stripped M98K barrel profile (top) and the custom contoured barrel profile on the bottom. This profile leaves enough material for good thermal stability. Turing out the steps with a straight taper removes too much material and can lead to a barrel that shifts POI when it warms up.  Dennis Olsen did the profile and crown for $60, but that was several years ago and the price may be more now. You should check the headspace before you send the barrel out for machuning. I have 8X57 headspace gauges if you need to borrow them. Military Mausers usually have 1 in 8 3/4" twist and don't seem to do as well with lighter weight bullets as with 200gr slugs. Your BRNO probably had 1 in 10" twist. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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A properly handloaded 8x57 in a good Mauser actions will duplicate the 30-06 for all practicle purposes, actually just a tad better some claim?? if not not much. A .308 will duplicate the 30-06 and the 8x57 with 150 gr. bullets properly handloaded, but not with 200 gr. bullets as the .308 case runs out of room with the heavier bullets.. If 150 to 200 FPS is meaningful to you then the 8x57 and its brothers will make you shout with glee. Ive never been able to tell the difference if the bullet is stuck in the right spot between most of these caliber conversations. My chronograph disputes the 8x57 being 150 FPS than the .308 when both are loaded to max and considering the 8x57, according to my chronograp and reloading manuals can beat the 30-06 by about 40 to 50 FPS with the 180 gr. bullets (I shot the Nosler 180 gr. ballistic tip at 2722 fps, a tad milder than some of my reloading books btw) The most I can get out of my .308 is 2600 plus 20 or 30 fps with max loads in my bolt and a tad less in my Savage 99.. Not saying the 308 isn't capable, it is one of my all time favorites but I hear a lot of crap about the 8x57 and its history which came about with junk rifles early on and reloadin manuals that are peronide to frivoulous law suits so the publish crap.....The 8x57 today is they 30/06 of Europe..and don't try to baffle me with BS as to the ballistic quality of the 8x57.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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8x57 - my favorite cartridge - right above the 308 Win and 375 H&H. Most guys in the US under 60 don't know what it is unless they are a gun nuts like us. "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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I agree, and inasmuch as I use a 99 Savage for my .308 and it won't take a bolt action pressures as extraction becomes a problem with a 99 and bolt max rounds stick..and my 8x57, an all time favorite riflw of mine has a 20.5 inch barrel that slows it down, and my 30-06s have 22 and 24 inch barrels, its real hard to compare so I just don't, because at the shot with them all, I just go gut the animal, go to camp and have a cup of coffee, and catch my breath!!  If I had to argue their attributes to make points Id go with bullet construction not caliber.Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I'm enjoying this thread. I get a lot of grief because my Elk rifle is an 8X57. I can't explain the numbers or the velocity enough to make the Giggler understand so I just go on my way. | |||
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