I would be very curious to feel the recoil difference between a 325 WSM and the 8mm Remington Mag and the 8mm versus the 338 Win Mag. I bet they would all have more recoil than the 338 Federal.

Speed sells so the 325 WSM will be more popular. I think I need one of each but neither are on the top of my want list.

Clem,
If I told you why I bought the 325 WSM I own, you probably wouldn't believe me. It certainly wasn't for velocity.
GWB

OK. I'll bite: Why did you buy the 325 ????

I know I shouldn't but what the heck!

Do a google search for Nosler Custom Sporter. Notice the different calibers/chamberings that they list. I think there are 16 if I counted right. Well, the only one on that list that I didn't have in my posession at the time, other than the 338 federal (which I detest and will never own again) was the 325 WSM. I had recently sold my Kimber Montana. It was hunting season, I had brass, dies, bullets and loaded rounds but no rifle in 325 WSM. Nosler was offering one heck of an NRA member discount. The gunshop where I trade was offering a 12 month free finance with no interest. Lust overtook me. Being the gunwhore I am, I couldn't resist.
Surely you've done that before. Have brass and dies for a certain chambering, but no rifle to match. Any self respecting gunwhore will remedy that situation in a heartbeat given the opportunity.
If I'm lyin' I'm dyin'
GWB

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Geedubya:
Also, if you're getting a chrono'd velocity of over 2,800 fps with a 180 gr. bullet out of a 23" barrel in an 8 x57, you might want to check your pressures, you might be up there![end of quote]

I don't have any of my reloading manuals with me this week, but don't all of the WSMs operate at much higher pressures, like in the 63-64K psi range of pressure. If that is considered safe for the WSMs in identically constructed actions why would it not be safe for another cartridge in the same model/type of action?

quote:

Originally posted by Geedubya:
I know I shouldn't but what the heck!

Do a google search for Nosler Custom Sporter. Notice the different calibers/chamberings that they list. I think there are 16 if I counted right. Well, the only one on that list that I didn't have in my posession at the time, other than the 338 federal (which I detest and will never own again) was the 325 WSM. I had recently sold my Kimber Montana. It was hunting season, I had brass, dies, bullets and loaded rounds but no rifle in 325 WSM. Nosler was offering one heck of an NRA member discount. The gunshop where I trade was offering a 12 month free finance with no interest. Lust overtook me. Being the gunwhore I am, I couldn't resist.
Surely you've done that before. Have brass and dies for a certain chambering, but no rifle to match. Any self respecting gunwhore will remedy that situation in a heartbeat given the opportunity.
If I'm lyin' I'm dyin'
GWB

I have the same disease. Qty 100 Lapua 6.5-284 brass cases trimmed, sized and primed. Waiting for powder, bullets and a rifle.

At the risk of being accused of hijacking- IIRC the 325 WSM was designed as an alternative to the 338 Win Mag, not the 338 Federal. I heard that Winchester tried a 338 WSM but could not get the velocity they wanted with a 250 gr so they dropped to the 325/8mm cal.

My andrestanding is that the 338 Federal was designed as a short action larger dia alterntive to the 308 al la the 30-06 and 35 whelen

SSR

Cross you are correct. The 325 WSM predates the 338 Fed by a couple of years.

Yes, I had heard about a short action 338 Win Mag and I was surprised to see it pop out in an 8mm bore.

Given the velocity that one can achieve with Alliant's 2000MR in the 338 Federal, I no longer believe that Federal missed the boat when they opted for the 308 case rather than the larger volume 284 Win case. Although at this late date, it may not matter at all.

I used to have this really awesome wildcat, it was the 6.5 x 284 necked up to shoot bullets of 7mm...

quote:

Originally posted by kiwiwildcat:
I used to have this really awesome wildcat, it was the 6.5 x 284 necked up to shoot bullets of 7mm...

Isn't interesting how one cartridge can fail miserably yet produce so many successful wildcats??

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
At the risk of being accused of hijacking- IIRC the 325 WSM was designed as an alternative to the 338 Win Mag, not the 338 Federal. I heard that Winchester tried a 338 WSM but could not get the velocity they wanted with a 250 gr so they dropped to the 325/8mm cal.

SSR

That makes a lot of sense since a 200gr .323 would have a lot better SD & BC than a 200gr .338.

This is a rather late post but I have both (or had both, and will again) I had a 338 federal in a ruger hawkeye, liked the round but wasn't crazy about the rifle and traded it for a #1 RSI (which I would like in a 338 federal) but will someday pick up a Kimber in that caliber when the funds are right. Then found a Win 70 in 325 and am currently enjoying that very much. I took 2 antelope and 2 mulies with the 338 Fed with 200gr Hornadys with no complaints. The 325 will get an elk this year. I think both are fantastic, not better than alot of rounds out there but do serve a purpose.

Not to , but I WOULDN'T say the differences in BC and SD between the .323 and .338 bullets are a LOT better...only slightly better if at all...we're talking differences in the hundredths of units...it would be very hard to tell the difference in the real world...only on paper and then you need a good magnifying lens to see that.

I think a lot of the "un-knowledge" about the 8mm AND .338 came from the American gun press...not much was written about the 8mm after WWII...the 30 cal was KING and then came Mr. Keith and the 35 Whelen and when the 8mm RM came out it got very bad press, so like good little sheep, everyone jumped on the "the 8mm is a pig" bandstand...

If the WSM case was available back then(it was but very few knew) and all the 8mm Mausers from WWII were rechambered to 325 WSM, we would be reading and hearing much DIFFERENT stories.

The conversion to 8mm,338, 9.3mm, 375 WSM in a Mauser would be much better than going to the longer 375 H&H case and needing to do so much milling at the WRONG place...

What about a 325 Ruger??...again a much better conversion than the longer belted mags and very close in ballistics.

The 325 WSM and the 338 Federal were NEVER competitors as was pointed out...the 325 WSM predates the 338 Fed OR a 325 Fed, if you will...the only thing they have in common is use in the same length actions.

Anyway...I see no problem with the 8mm, be it a RM, WSM, RUM, Fed, Ruger etc. cased cartridge OR the 338 or any other calibers, in the same cases....

It means WE HAVE CHOICE...the rest of the "stuff" is just personal bias...which I see no problem with either.

Luck

quote:

Originally posted by Geedubya:
I know I shouldn't but what the heck!

Do a google search for Nosler Custom Sporter. Notice the different calibers/chamberings that they list. I think there are 16 if I counted right. Well, the only one on that list that I didn't have in my posession at the time, other than the 338 federal (which I detest and will never own again) was the 325 WSM. I had recently sold my Kimber Montana. It was hunting season, I had brass, dies, bullets and loaded rounds but no rifle in 325 WSM. Nosler was offering one heck of an NRA member discount. The gunshop where I trade was offering a 12 month free finance with no interest. Lust overtook me. Being the gunwhore I am, I couldn't resist.
Surely you've done that before. Have brass and dies for a certain chambering, but no rifle to match. Any self respecting gunwhore will remedy that situation in a heartbeat given the opportunity.
If I'm lyin' I'm dyin'
GWB

Why do you detest the 338 Federal Glen?

I would have thought it made a fine short range meat-getter?

Best,

A

I just returned from South Africa and I used the 338 Federal exclusively. I loaded 210g Barnes TTSX at 2625 fps (Chrono) using 52.7g of Alliant MR2000 powder. This load is extremely compressed although Alliant stated that was to be expected.

The back up rifle was a 30-06, my thinking is if the ammo was lost Plan B should be a simple fix.

I only recovered one bullet - it traveled 3 feet through a 750 lb Kudu bull on a raking angle shot. It hit the lungs and traveled through the gut, ending up on the far side just under the skin. Perfect text book picture.

Delta airlines screwed up my baggage on all four legs of the trip, the rifles arrived in SA about a week after I got there. Meanwhile I used a borrowed 308 Win with factory 180g Partition Federal VitaShocks. The first thing I shot was a 160 lb Reedbuck and I hit dead square in the shoulder. Unfortunately, the bullet didn't penetrate the bone and embedded there. I eventually killed it with a straight on heart shot. Because of that, I stuck with the larger bore and heavier Barnes bullets.

Due to this I skipped the 30 bore and Partitions and stuck with the Barnes in 338 bore; which btw the PH wanted me to use anyway. He didn't have any problem with the 30 bore, just the bullets I had for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

quote:

Originally posted by Geedubya:
I know I shouldn't but what the heck!

Do a google search for Nosler Custom Sporter. Notice the different calibers/chamberings that they list. I think there are 16 if I counted right. Well, the only one on that list that I didn't have in my posession at the time, other than the 338 federal (which I detest and will never own again) was the 325 WSM. I had recently sold my Kimber Montana. It was hunting season, I had brass, dies, bullets and loaded rounds but no rifle in 325 WSM. Nosler was offering one heck of an NRA member discount. The gunshop where I trade was offering a 12 month free finance with no interest. Lust overtook me. Being the gunwhore I am, I couldn't resist.
Surely you've done that before. Have brass and dies for a certain chambering, but no rifle to match. Any self respecting gunwhore will remedy that situation in a heartbeat given the opportunity.
If I'm lyin' I'm dyin'
GWB

Why do you detest the 338 Federal Glen?

I would have thought it made a fine short range meat-getter?

Best,

A

Amir,

Upon reflection, it may have all been co-incidence.

I have expressed my reasons in the past. Since I've slept since my last excursion into 338fedland I'll run the risk of repeating myself.

I have reloading dies in my possession for at least 62 different chamberings between 17 Ackley hornet and 458 Lott. I've had real problems with only two chamberings in regard to the acutal process of employing those reloading dies. The two chamberings which I had the most problems were the 243 wssm and the 338 federal. IIRC, I broke three different decapping pins trying to deprime and resize brass for the 338 federal. I use full length RCBS dies almost exclusively, except for the Lee Collet neck size dies, which do not have an expander ball, and neck size only. I tried all the tricks including polishing the dies and decapping pin with flitz. To no avail.
I started with a new Sako model 85 synthethic stainless in 338 Fed. I tried at least 3 different types of factory ammo so I could get properly headstamped brass. I never could get the rifle to group consistently less than 2" groups at 100 yds. Sometime's groups would exceed 2". Point of impact would change when firing the same ammo. It was not the scope or mounting hardware. After at least 50 different powder/bullet/load density combinations, I took the rifle back to where I trade and they gave me another. It was the same. After the same routine I took it back also.

Next thing, even with compressed loads, I could not get within 150 fps of book velocities, and problably more like 200 fps. I am not a fan of compressed loads.

I've owned +/- 20 different Sakos, I've never had others that I could not make shoot an inch or better at 100 yds.

So the fact that I had nothing but problems with the dies, rifle, bad groups and poor velocity. I gave up on the cartridge. Too many other rifles,and chamberings and too little time. I see it kinda like beating your head against a brick wall. It don't take me long to realize what's causing the pain. At that point I stop inflicting pain upon myself.
I've had rifles in 338-06, 338 win mag, 338 RUM. I like them all better. Just like the 358 Winchester. It's fine but I like the 35 Whelen better. I guess I'm just a long action kinda guy when it comes to the 338 and the 35 caliber.

It wasn't until about a year ago that I heard that Sako had cut the chambers of their 338 fed rifles oversize, hence the problems I experienced.

At this point I'll probably never try one on again. For those that have them and like them like Scottfromdallas, I say go for it.

As to short range meat getters, I've been favoring the 7mm-08 and the 260 Remington of late. The 325 WSM, 9.3 x 62 and the 45-70 work well also.

GWB

PS: It's nice to hear from you again. I thought you'd gave up on this ol redneck cracker.

Fair enough then!

I grant you ample reason to hate the cartridge, if even Sako buggered it up it must have been born under a dark star!

I hadn't given up on you at all, in fact I thought you'd given up on me when as I haven't had a reply to that pm I sent back in June.

I have a hankering for a browning BLR in something like 338 Federal or 358 Winchester for driven boar at some point, A mate has bought one in 308 and it looks very handy for that sort of work.

I liked the idea of a larger bore than his because the work will be close up and the more energy and frontal area the better as far as i'm concerned.

The .338 seemed to be of the order of the older 358 but with slightly better ranging potential should the need arise.

Might stick with the tried and tested formula then.

Best,

Amir

I BLR in 358 Win would be perfect for what you re describing.

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
I BLR in 358 Win would be perfect for what you re describing.

The trouble is Scott they're as rare as hen's teeth on this side of the pond.

Even on the continent they are great demand by Ze Churmans, who snap them up within minutes of them being offered for sale it seems.

I'm hoping to buy my buddies rifle off him when he gets bored of it and rebarrel it.

I had a lot of accuracy problems with my SAKO 85S in 338 Federal, too. Turns out the action screws were loose from the factory. Interestingly, they also loosened up on the trip over to SA. Fortunately, the PH had a Torx driver that fit. Once tight, it shot fine although the point of impact changed a bit.

Im not particularly excited by the short fat concept. If I wanted a new case design I would much prefer something roughly the size of the 338 WM without the belt.

That being said, I wont likeley be getting either rounds mentioned as I am happy as can be with my 358 Win and 35 Whelen. I do find the 338 fed kind of intriging though. The one thing that gives me pause about that caliber is I hear that some are made with short throats and necesitate deep seating of heavy bullets. If that is the case then the 358 has a definate advantage over it.

I do like the case capacity and caliber combination of the 325 wsm. Seems like a very nice combo, in fact I think it may be the very best of the wsm's. Maybe Ill warm up to the short fat thing someday, but up to this point I just seee them as a turn off..

That is exactly why my wildcat, the 350 African Express, is designed that way. 338 capacity, standard length action, no belt, and 35 caliber!

I guess this is as good as a place as any for a first post. I have owned 338's in Federal, WM, and Lapua. All of them have been admirable performers within their limitations. My Federal being a Ruger Frontier 16.5" barrel produces accuracy in the range of a 1 1/2 to 2 MOA when used with Federal Fusion ammunition, have not tried it with premium stuff yet. I enjoy the low recoil and somewhat good terminal ballistics for the size of the rifle (short and light). Only problem is ammunition selection (only Federal produces) and if it will be available in ten years, although it is easily made from .308 brass. For short ranges with North American sized game, should be adequate at least. For animals of the ticker skinned and temperamental variety I would pass it by and move on to a better stopper, in both diameter and bullet weight. Just my $.02

Cheers
-Private Contractor-

quote:

Originally posted by RobertD:
That is exactly why my wildcat, the 350 African Express, is designed that way. 338 capacity, standard length action, no belt, and 35 caliber!

Sounds like a well concieved cartridge..


Welcome to A.R private Contractor..

The 338 Federal was dead on arrival because Federal was too stupid to realize that it was a mistake bringing out a new cartridge specific to one rifle, and a rifle 80% of the hunters they wanted to use them for couldn't afford or justify.

Had the 338 Federal been introduced in a Ruger, Savage, or Remington it would have made a bigger splash. However, it debuted in 1300$ Sako's. Now those of us here, are a different (insane some might say)story, but think about how many hunters you know, just plain ol' American deer hunters, own Sako rifles? Fractions of a fraction. How many own Savage, Remingtons, Winchesters, Rugers? Millions.

Of course its not a 7mm so Remington would have killed it off as well if they were the loan rifle maker.

I agree totally!

I agree with the poor choice of Sako for the exclusive introduction although I like Sakos. The 338 Federal is more of special run cartridge. It would be ideal in a special edition 77RSI, Rem Mod Seven, Win Featherweight, or BLR.

I have no need for either, don't even know why they came about..The .338 win can do anything either of them can do by simply loading it down, and it can do a hell of a lot more by simply loading it up..All this in the same size gun..

I'm miffed as to why they exist and I would bet dollars to donuts they are a flash in the pan..

One problem that all short action cartridges have is compressing the powder space when heavier bullets are used. If the 338 Federal had been specified to fit in a standard length action instead of a short action, a heavier bullet could be used and still have ample powder space behind it. This problem is highly compounded when working with lead free bullets, which is clearly in the future.

The 338 bore really starts to shine with 225 to 250 grain slugs but using a 210g slug is pushing the limits of what it can do and 190 to 200g is really the upper limit.

Consequently, I never really understood the reasoning behind a cartridge designed to be limited to light for caliber bullets. If I have this wrong, then someone please enlighten me!

It's kind of like asking which is the second ugliest girl at the dance. People enjoy the conversation but don't really care about the results.

One of my good friends bought a Browning A bolt in .325 WSM and he really enjoys it. He says it has a pretty stiff kick but I haven't shot it yet.

I purchased a Browning A-bolt stainless-synthetic in .325WSM. Got a good deal from a shop closing it's doors (too bad). Since it was a little light, I had a shop put a Limbsaver on the thing. Feels much better to shoot now. It really shines with bullets weighing 180 to 200gr. Practice with Remingtons and use Accu-bonds for game.

quote:

Originally posted by kiwiwildcat:
I used to have this really awesome wildcat, it was the 6.5 x 284 necked up to shoot bullets of 7mm...

Wow! I never thought of trying that one! I need to get one of those!