I have a Sako L691 in 300 Win Mag and the recoil is starting to bother my shoulder a great deal. I was wondering if anyone could comment if the .257 or .270 Weatherby's were much less sharp in this regard? I'm thinking about rebarreling this rifle.

Depends.

If you're having a problem at the bench, but would like to keep the ballistic advantage of the 300 try padding the butt with a small shot-filled bag when you shoot. Recoil of a 300 Win is not so noticeable in the field.

If you're getting slapped in the face by the comb, you may have a gunfit problem that will not go away completely with a caliber reduction.

Recoil quality ("sharpness") doesn't change much IMHO between magnum calibers from 270 to 300, but you may feel otherwise.

A less expensive approach might be to replace a wood stock with a synthetic. FWIW, I find a 300 Mag with the latter to be about the same as an '06 with a wood stock. Other simple things include benching with lighter bullets, reducing powder charge, etc.

But, if you have your heart set on a new caliber and just need to rationalize the decision..........by all means proceed!

Sam

I have both a 257 Weatherby and a couple 300 Win Mags. The difference in recoil between the two, to me, is night and day! My 257 is fun to shoot off the bench, 300 sucks! In the field, of course, I feel less recoil. But, there is a significant difference between my two!!

Corey

The .257 Weatherby that I shot kicked a lot less than even a 30/06 it seemed. But the little .257 is no 30/06 let alone a .300 Mag! That was a stock Mk-5 with a plastic stock. They are quite a heavy, long, clumsy rifle you know. But that excellent Weatherby stock helps also.

Few of us need .300 Magnums. I got another one last winter and I have been shooting it all year. Most of us can get used to the recoil which is terrific. That .257 Weatherby as noted above is a pleasure to shoot compared to the .300 Ma.

Myself, I have no use for Weatherby rifles or cartridges but some like them.

I don't own a Sako in 300WM but I have a Rem700 in that caliber. This rifle had the hardest recoil I have ever shot, worse than my 375, I replaced the standard stock with a FAJEN drop in from Midway USA and this rifle is now a pleasure to shoot. The reason I did this was the 300 was harder kicking than my 375 and about as bad as my 458, but the rem had a poorly designed stock which contributed to the sharp recoil. I also have a 1/2 moon above my right eye brow as a result of leaning forward in a bench position.. Another problem shooters encounter at the bench is they do not have the rifle elevated high enough thereby increasing the chance of an ill stocked rifle recoiling with a muzzle jump that causes the butt to go down under your arm pit during recoil. If you shoot it on bench in a upright sitting position (as if you where standing) this would prevent this occurence. You may also try a muzzle break which really reduces the felt recoil. Good luck.

Have you thought of installing a muzzlebreak, my Vais style brakes makes my 30-8mm Rem a pleasure to shoot.

Ive done much shooting/hunting with a rem 700 in 300 win for the last 7 years, killing everything from prarie dogs to elk with bullets ranging from 150 to 200 grains. I have found
that this caliber's recoil can be easily tolerated with some practice and a good quality stock.
After a year or so I replace the factory stock on my rifle with an HS precision synthetic stock,
and immediatly notice a decrease in felt recoil. This stock is straighter, slightly heavier and
and just seems to work better at absorbing recoil. I would try changing stocks or even
(I hate to say this) install a muzzle break before giving up the versitaliy that you have in
your 300 mag

How hard is the recoil pad on your stock?

My 300 Win Mag A-Bolt used to beat the crap out of me. After an extended shooting session, even wearing a standard Past Recoil Shield, it would literally leave my shoulder black and blue.

I feel like a complete idiot for not thinking of it sooner, but I recently replaced the pad with a Decelerator. Night and day difference. It was almost a pleasure to shoot after that. The Browning rubber pad must have been some sort of rubber/titanium composite...it was hard as a rock!

Of course now I just got the thing rechambered to 300 RUM.... I've already got a Past "Super Magnum Plus" recoil shield. This thing is 1" thick!

My opinion is there's no reason to try and be a tough guy. Trying to be Macho while sighting in and practicing does nothing other than risk developing a flinch. In practice, be a wimp. In the field you won't even notice the recoil...and you'll shoot accurately because the rifle didn't beat you up in practice.

Yeah, I love the .300 Win mag cartridge. Great for shooting steel plate targets. It does have a stock pad which could be a problem. However, I think my days of shooting Heavy Magnums are over. A muzzle break is out of the question as I find them too loud and they effect POI. I was thinking about turning the rifle into a Sendero type in order to gain weight and just use it at the 1000 yard range on plates.

Guy:

I once owned a Sako in 300 winny. I also found it to be punishing. I don't know if they have changed the stock design much recently, but mine had a very narrow comb and a small cross section on the recoil pad. You could get a very nice stock from McMillan with a straight comb, and a nice fat cross section (and a decellerator pad) for less than you would spend on a new bbl.

A 1 lb. heavier bbl. will produce about a 10% decrease in recoil energy. This is almost exactly the same as going from a 180 gr. load to a 150 gr. load. So, if you shoot 180's, you could go buy a box of 150's and shoot 'em. If that's enough of an improvement, then the heavier bbl. would get you what you want. My guess however, is that a better stock design would be more comfortable than the heavier bbl. in the stock you have.



FWIW-JimF

What? Okay, Id stick with the 300 Win Mag. For one, I dont notice a recoil problem and I have a 460 dollar Remington ADL synthetic. I can comfortably shoot the better part of a full box from my rifle before it starts to let me know when I pull the trigger. I have put 17 rounds through it in one stretch... off a bench. The bench adds alot of recoil to a rifle. When on a bench, your body leans into the rifle, not allow your body to rock backwards with the recoil. So when on the bench, the recoil seems alot stiffer. If you and going to change calibers (which I highly dont recrommend), Why not something like the 7mm Rem Mag?

Change the stock. Sako stocks just don't fit some people (I'm one of them). Get a McMillan. - Dan

Actually I find the fit of this stock to be perfect. I just have some shoulder pain from other activities like weight lifting and swimming ect. I have a Ruger 375 H&H which does not punish me as much as the 300 WM. I simply do not have enough flexibility in my shoulder as it must flex during firing and the connective tissues let me know what they think.

As an aside, I purchased this rifle a few years back and on that trip to the store a policeman accidently shot himself through the hand in the parking lot which caused quite a mess inside his little pickup and the parking lot (artery bleed ala John Belushi/Julia Child). I was the first person to respond and the doctors said that my actions probably saved the guys hand. So the store owner let me buy this SAKO at cost. So I probably should'nt complain too much.

"Save the liver! I'm remembering back when I was a little girl ..."

I thought that was Dan Ackroyd. Thanks for assisting one of the good guys in his hour of nitwittery. Yeah, it happens.

Redial
10-7

I used to have a Remington Model 700 AWR in 300 Win Mag. It was a beautiful gun, and I loved it. The problem was, it was quite light (under 7lbs), and had a real narrow stock. To say that it was punishing is an understatement. I would wear a magnum recoil pad, and still after 10-15 shots from the bench I was a physical and emotional wreck. In the end, I posted it for sale/trade here and traded it off. For what it's worth, the guy's first comments after receiving the rifle were: "Boy, she sure does kick."

Guy:

You just made a perfect description of a stock that does not handle recoil well. A 375 delivers about 30% more recoil than a 300 win. w/equal gun weights. It may feel OK when you shoulder it, but if it hurts more than a 375, then it does not work. There is no wayinheckfire, that an equal weight 375 will kick less than a 300 when both are used with std. loads.

"Fit" can be interpreted as how the sight lines up when you shoulder the rifle. It may "fit" and be comfortable, but miserable @ handling recoil.

(MCHS grad by chance??)

JimF

Well my Ruger RSM and my SAKO have similiar stock measurements. The Ruger is heavier and the duration of the .375 is more versus the 300.

Guy Kish mentions "duration" which I interpret as recoil velocity. Yes they both kick but the .300 mags seem mean. At least with the .375 your shooting a real bullet.

At any rate who knows a good shop for rebarreling this piece?

Since John Ricks has temporarily stopped taking on new work, I'd say send it to Pac Nor.

Me thinks the .257 Weatherby would be the answer to your question. Haven't fired one personally, but just can't see it a being a shoulder basher.

In situations like this I always suggest selling the rifle and buying a new one. The existing barrel is just fine like it is and has just as much or more value than a aftermarket barrel.

Plus the stock may not be the best fit for you either.

The Weatherby .257's that I have seen have long barrels and are somewhat heavy. But the one that I have shot twice now does not kick bad at all. That was with 117 gr factory loads which are quite hot also. That rifle functioned well and had a very good trigger pull. It grouped well also.

Guy, I really think Jon A is right. You can go rebarrel if you want for more accuracy, but properly placed lead shot and epoxy is a cheaper way to add weight.

Jon's approach was to put on a decent recoil pad, and he's right. My recollection is that the super-mushy super-thick Pachmayr shotgun recoil pad is the F990, and it's a marvelous demagnumizer. It's like you went and put marshmallows between you and the stock.

I like stocks with combs that are just high enough so your eye lines up with the lowest possible scope mount (objective just clears barrel, and a high butt. That way the rifle comes straight back with not much upward pitch. That way the comb doesn't slap you in the face.

If you have trouble believing in recoil pads, take a rifle with a nice hard steel buttplate (a lot of the military 8mm and .30-06 rifles are just right for this sort of experiment, however, the lighter the better), fire it a couple of times, and then put one of those ultra-cheap slip-on recoil pads on the butt, and then shoot it again. Almost as good as bubble wrap...the results are so good that one begins to think this must be cheating. The only thing that is bad about this is that the benefit is transferable: when we take our manly cannons down to the range, we don't want them to be TOO easy for our friends to shoot.

My factory SAKO definately does not want for more accuracy. However, the recoil pad is a good idea. Who does stock work?

I'm confused!

Could someone tell me what makes a stock better with recoil? and why would a synthetic stock(lighter) work better than a wood stock(heavier)?

I have a 7mag in savage and it kicks hard(for me)
It has a very light barrel and a synthetic stock. Total weight is light(for a 24" barrel). Easy to carry.
I also have a 30-06 adl with wood stock and I put a decelerator pad on and it seems to be much better. Just put my scope back on and am looking forward to giving it a better test(monday)
As I recall I don't remember my .270 kicking as much as either. Is this my imagination or should I just go back to the 270.
I have a shoulder mag pad and it is the only way I could say what my reloads are doing. I get real trigger punchy if the recoil is hard.
I would like to get good with rifle and I am not going into the field or practicing position shooting with a pad on.

thanks, Wimpie
Matt

Here are my observations.

First, a rifle that has a lot of muzzle flip will hit your cheek and upper jaw very hard. I am much more sensitive to that than I am to a punch in the shoulder.

A stock with a minimal drop @ heel tends to come straight back and hit the shoulder hard, but it spares the cheek and face a bit. A narrow comb intensifies the hit on the cheek and face. A wider and deeper footprint @ the butt, spreads the shoulder punch over a wider area.

So for me, a rifle with minimal drop @ comb and butt tends to spare my cheek and jaw. A fat comb spreads the hit on the cheek. Then, the wide, deep butt tends to soften the hit on the shoulder. Of course the best pad you can find helps a lot as well.

JimF

Ditto what JimF said.

Dittos also. And I think that's the main reason why synthetics "kick" less. Take a look at the drop on a typical pre-64 '70, or even older Remingtons. Most synthetics I've played with are pretty straight combed.

Sam

Have you ever thought about a recoil adsorbing rifle rest? I shoot a 300 Win from a Model 4 rest from National Match rifle Supports. Its like shooting a 22 rim fire. Sixty plus rounds at a session is no problem. Check it out nationalmatchriflerests.com jim

I have a muzzle brake on my model 70 in .300 Win. Mag. It was the only way I could handle the recoil. On the same note I shot the same gun in .270 Wby. mag. and it was not bad without the brake. When I was a teenager I could handle shooting my friends .257 Wby. So in my experiences both the .270 and .257 Wby. have much less recoil than the .300 Win. Mag. but I love my .300.

It is a maidens caress, nothing more.

1. I'm not too sure about synthetic stocks handling recoil better. I had a 338 wm in the new Ruger MKII with stainless steel and the new synthetic stock on layaway. Everytine I went to the gun store to make a payment I kept holding this gun and a few things bothered me

- The gun was light (7 lbs) - now I had owned a 338 before and some rifle mass does alot to tame that recoil

- The width of the comb at the top of the stock was relatively narrow - I've had sore cheeks from stocks like this before. A cheek piece adds some width to soften the impact

- Stock is short - now this may be more more than anything - but I usually lengthen the stock 3/4" (insert, ticker pad or both) or so to make sure I don't eat the scope or my thumb - especially shooting downhill from a sitting position - done this.

- Factory pad is very firm

- So the other day I went down to make a payment and there on the rack was a used Ruger MKI in 338 - metal was mint - stock had some minor scratches - but the gun felt like a 338 should. Killed the lay away and took this rifle home $350 including a
3X9 Bushnell whick I put on a 22 and replaced with a long eye relief Leupold 3X9.

- Off to the range and shot several rounds with a 270 with stiff handloads - 160 gr NP. Then saddled up to the 338 - not that much difference. Stock shape brings the recoil stright back. No its at the gun smith having new thicker pad put on.

I think this trend of going to very light weight magnum rifles is questionalble. When I'm out there hiking the hills I'm carrying a extra clothing, back pack. camera. binocs - ammo - food - drink etc - to cut 2 lbs of the rifle weight seems kind of useless.

So the answer is - get a new rifle with recoil that does not bother you - unless you enjoy that sweet caress thing - I do.

Bump

Ray,

that ain't no "...maidens caress...". That is one mean 400lb fat woman, bitch-slapping taking place all around your unworthy head. I find the 300's a really quick slap, versus a more sustained push from the .350+ calibers.
Recoil velocity is what does me in. I had a 257Wbee once, great rifle for sub-400lb plains-type game. Would NOT recommend it for elk or black bear and up.

guykish,

why not look at a 264WM? Much, much better elk/bear class hunting rifle recoil is not enough diference to talk about.

regards,

Rich
DRSS

I am no fan of recoil . As paradoxical as it sounds my go to all round hunting rifle is a Sako75 in 338 win mag. The reason for this is simple:grizzly bears.They are abundant where I hunt and I want something up to the task if and when necesarry. I have made two modifications which helped enormously. First I installed a Simms Limb Saver recoil pad and two, I had the barrel magnaported. The porting does not create the eyesore a muzzle break does. It greatly decreases the lift of the muzzle during recoil. I shoot the rifle one handed from the bench and I think it compares favorably to a 30-06 for recoil FWIW

quote:

Originally posted by Guy Kish:
I have a Sako L691 in 300 Win Mag and the recoil is starting to bother my shoulder a great deal. I was wondering if anyone could comment if the .257 or .270 Weatherby's were much less sharp in this regard? I'm thinking about rebarreling this rifle.

POSTED 4 1/2 YEARS AGO

quote:

Bump

posted by seafire today 1-19-2007

Seafire.....what are you doing?......the purpose of replying to a thread is help someone get answers to his questions and concerns etc.....if after 4 1/2 years Guy Kish still wants discussion he may say so himself!!

When I first started shooting my 300 Win Mag I felt that I needed a skinny sand bag over my shoulder for shooting off the bench. I shot with that sand bag any time I shot it off the bench but when not on the bench I didn't need it. I don't use that sand bag any more except for my 416 on the bench.

Please do not change the wood stock (if it has one) to synthetic. Put a limbsavers recoil pad on it and be done.

I have found that our Sako in .270 Weatherby kicked more then the .300WM.

Whoops, just realized someone brought this up from the dead!

nevermind!

+1 limbsavers recoil pad

Makes the 300WM kick like a 6.5x55.