Guys, what does your blood trails look like with the 338's and 358's vs 6-7mm ctgs?

I suspect much better-and perhaps shorter.

Please tell me what bullets you prefer for deer and your experiences in the 338's and 358's.

Thanks.

So far I've only taken one deer with a 35. It was a small doe that was neck shot at close range. 350 rigby driving a 250 gr hornady rn 2700 fps. Entrance was silver dollar size, exit fist size and spine taken out. She dropped at the spot so no need to trail.

I have used the 7mm08 for over 20 yrs now and blood trails have gone from 0 to 50 yds max and very easy to follow. This year I switched to Barnes TSXs and the performance is outstanding on deer. Six deer has over an inch hole on the exit and only one made it 50 yds. In all those years I never shot one twice and never lost one. I can't imagine why anyone would want to hunt deer with a bigger gun except for ego. I sure can't see a technical reason for it.
Good Luck with your research.

Could have something to do with the brown bears that inhabit the islands we hunt deer on.

When you move up to 33 caliber you get a quantum leap in bullet hole size and of course subsequently blood trails if you
need to follow up.

I just shot a mule deer through the heart with a 30 cal. and had to skin the deer to find the entrance hole. With a 33 you usually can just stick your finger right in the entrance hole. No question where the hit was. You move up to 375 and probably 35 will do the same and on a cool morning steam will be spewing from the upside bullet holes just like a smoke stack. You can imagine whatthe blood trail would be like.

A 338WM loaded with the 210 Nosler Partition makes a heck of a deer round. You hit a deer through the lungs with that bullet and I'll be surprised if you really have to trail it at all and I promise you there will be plenty of blood. What do guys say, "Bang, flop"? That is my experience with the 338WM loaded with the 210 NP on deer and caribou size animals.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
Could have something to do with the brown bears that inhabit the islands we hunt deer on.

See your point. I wasn't thinking that far north. If I hunted deer on a brown bear island then I would up the size of the cal a little also. But strictly deer hunting in the lower 48 the big cals offer no kill advantage. Just a lot of noise. There needs to be enough power for a bullet to expand and exit.

6.5,
Your question makes me think you have stuck with the smaller cals, so here's my experience. Big holes mean lots of blood. That said the biggest hole I have ever made in a deer was with a 7mm Rem. Mag. I used a 120gr Hornady @ 3500ish. The exit had to be at least 3" wide, but that was the only exit wound I had on an animal with said load. Expansion was obviously explosive, but was very inconsistent. With my .338 I had nothing but consistency. Two deer have shown me a 1/2" entrance with a 1" exit. Both of these holes stayed very open, allowing blood to freely expell from the cavity. This is what you should be looking for, easy to follow consistent trails.Fortunately I didn't need the trails.
I believe the bullet played no small part, a 210gr Barnes TSX @ 2950ish, one at 120yds, one at 380yds(couldn't get closer on that bald prairie). Meat damage was minimal (both on the shoulder and you cold eat up to the hole), and neither went far (15yds and 5ft). I hope this helps. Good luck with the .33+.

i have a 35/284 rifle. i killed five deer from 45 yards to 235 yards with it so far and never had to be concerned about a blood trail. i think one may have made it about ten feet before he stopped.

I am sure this is an exception but....

I shot a little whitetail buck at 110 yards with 225 TSX from my 338 RUM--stright up the tail and out the front left shoulder.

NO BLOOD! (Mind you this was in 12" of snow so a single drop would stand out like a sore thumb)

Anyway, the animal ran about 50 yards and dropped. When I rolled him over a little blood was starting to come out the shoulder.

IV

I have never had a blood trail with the 12 White Tails, 3 Mule Deer, 4 Elk, and 2 Bear I have taken with my 35 Whelen. Every one of them literally dropped where they stood with a complete pass through on all animals.

One 8 point bull elk was shot front-on from 50 yards as it started to jump over a wind fall. The Whelen knocked him back over the wind fall, and the exit wound was near his ass hole. All bullets were simple Speer 250 gr Spitzers, behind 53 grs of IMR 4895.

That is why I hunt with medium bores.

Barstooler

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
Could have something to do with the brown bears that inhabit the islands we hunt deer on.

Precisely my dear Watson!

I was carrying my .338 stoked 250 grain partitions and hunting for deer when I took this pic this past November here in Alaska:



MM

Every time I have shot a deer with anything in the 33 to 35 caliber range the deer has died within rock throwing distance of the hit. Never paid attention to the blood, but I will next time I shoot a deer.

Blood trail with my 35 WAI is impressive- only thing is one or two deer lengths is as far as a deer goes after being shot, so tracking isn't a problem.

6.5BR
I use my old win pre 64 .338 on elk for precisely that reason..one shot, two holes that stay open and allow plenty of blood to flow. I use the Hornady 225 gr spire point exclusivly now in that firearm. With my Sako .358 win I shot one spike bull that dropped to a 225 gr Sierra bt. I found it to be a bit on the soft side for elk but it should be great on deer or black bear from a stand. I will use the Nosler 225 Partition in the .358 in the future.
Any of the bullets from 180 gr on up in either caliber, regardless of initial velocity should be absolute dynomite on deer size game and leave plenty of blood to follow if need be.
I shot one spike bull to rags in heavy timber with my .338 and had to track him maybe 40 yards or so...pretty much point and poke shootin, but it worked. I can't imagine a deer going far with either a 33 or 35 caliber hole in the right place. Good luck, BT53

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:

A 338WM loaded with the 210 Nosler Partition makes a heck of a deer round. You hit a deer through the lungs with that bullet and I'll be surprised if you really have to trail it at all and I promise you there will be plenty of blood. What do guys say, "Bang, flop"? That is my experience with the 338WM loaded with the 210 NP on deer and caribou size animals.

Mark

I get "Bang,flop" on elk with that same load!! It's a mystical combination, at least at the 3050 fps it gets in my .338 A-Bolt (26"barrel)

I'm enjoying this thread. Anyone else have experience with 338 WCF? Thanks for your experience. Packy

I have taken several Deer and Elk with a .340 Wby using a 225 grain or 240 grain North Fork and 225 grain Barnes XLC. Never had to blood trail as they all dropped. I have taken several Elk and African plains game with a .358 STA using 270 grain North Forks at 2850 fps. They all dropped in their tracks except the Zebra and he took three well placed shots, dropped three times then still ran until he ran out of blood. The blood trail looked like someone was pouring it out of a spout. I have never shot a tougher animal except maybe the Cape Buffalo. Good shooting.

In the 50-60ish deer I've taken with a 250-3000, I've never had a deer leave my sight after the shot. (shots from 10 yds to about 300, though most at 125 yds and less) Is a bloodtrail really needed that often while hunting deer with a high-powered rifle?

I've shot a number of deer with 35 calibers (Whelen and 358) and they generally drop in their tracks; however, when the did run with 358 hits, they generally went a bit farther than with the 250-3000 (on average)... go figure...

9.3x62

What bullet in the 250? Obviously it works. Ranges? Thanks as I wanted sometime in the future in playing with a 250 as I bored quickly of the '06 in a #1B Ruger-too heavy but good ctg.

Dwight, the 7/08 was my favorite caliber years ago and I never had any trouble with it, Mark my 338/06 SMACKED the heck out of deer with 200 ballistic tips-1doa at 200yds, shoulder shot, another rib to shoulder-3 jumps and down at 25yds, and a 3rd deer very small -lung shot silver dollar exit spewing blood as it ran by me making it 100 yards! Go figure, I think that 55lb......sad.....thought it was a bigger deer at a greater distance that morning but I had not shot out of that blind and did not know range early in the morning. I believe that little deer was not thick enough to absorb potential shock.

Max-what bullet in your 35/284?

Hey guys, I really appreciate all the feedback as its confident building hearing what works in the field.

Trust me I do not tout or advocate magnums having shot/killed many deer with 6 and 7br ctg BUT in the evenings, I fear losing animals that may run a little ways here in the deep south and without a blood trail, the frustration is too much at times-and I would rather take the punch of a medium bore if that would solve the problem.

One consistent theme on this thread is that the 33's and 35's seem VERY reliable at putting game down VERY fast AND leaving 2 clean holes in the animal SHOULD you need a solid blood trail.

Looking forward to trying more medium bores on deer-just for the confidence ESPECIALLY on evening hunts where bad light after the shot makes any trailing difficult. Here the game is skittish and often come out right at the last of legal shooting light.

Thanks a bunch guys.

Various bullets. Remington 100 PSPCL, 100 Silvertip, 100 Hornady, 115 Nosler BT, 117 Nornady RN, 117 Sierra BT, 117 Sierra SP, 120 Sierra GKHP, 120 Speer BT. Usually the heavier bullets at closer ranges (sub 125 yds) and lighter at longer ranges (sub 300 yds).

I may try the new 110 Accubond for fun, though I hardly think the extra bullet expense is necessary...

The 250-3000 is a notorious deerslayer...

6.5BR,

I have hunted with both a 35 Whelen and a 338 RUM since 1988 so I can share with you my experiences.
I have taken 17 WT Deer and 1 Black Bear with a M700 Classic in 35 Whelen. The first 4 WT were with the Remington 200 gr PSPCL factory load. 1 of these deer ran approx 30-40 yds with a solid lung shot. The blood trail was very heavy, a red carpet in the snow. I switche dto a Nosler 225 gr PT and recall having to trail one other deer and the blood trail was again very heavy and very short. 1 other deer ran about 20 yds towards me but fell over dead. All others including a 250 lb Blk Bear fell at the shot and never got up.
I switched to a M700 Classic in 280 Rem w/ 140 gr PT and was really disappointed by the lack of blood left in the snow on a solid lung shot buck. I followed the 40 yd trail better than half way b4 I could start seeing much blood. When the blood trail started to get heavy, the 8 pt lay dead in sight.
I have a M700LSS in 338 RUM. With the Nosler 210 gr PT I have taken Elk, Mule Deer and Black Bear. With the 250 gr PT, I have taken WT Deer. All have been DRT kills, no tracking has been necessary.
My summary is that the .338-.358 calibers hit very hard. Most game animals that are hit with a solid vital hit wiil not go far if at all. Any blood trail that you have to follow will most likely be short and sweet.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

JD338

I was impressed with the hole left by the old .35 Remington. There were only two blood spots tho: the one beside it, and the pool directly under the deer.

I used my 338-06AI on a big doe last week. First animal that I have had a chance to use this rifle on..the load was a 210gr partition over 59.5gr of IMR4350, velocity was 2775.

The doe was 200yds away and the bullet hit tight against the right shoulder..exited right behind the left shoulder. Exit hole was about 1", and the deer was DRT...never took a step. Meat damage was not as bad as I expected...1"+ size hole in each shoulder..but very little blood shot meat..

zeeriverrat

Most of my hunting has been done with 7 mags or 300 win mag . With standard bullets I had eratic preformance especially in the 300 alot of blow ups . But all that nonsense stopped when I started shooting Partions . Caliber in 50 cent out . I've been playing with 338's for a couple years now last year (04) I shot 200 gr. BT @ 2950 ( can't get it to group 210 Part.) out of a 338 Win mag. With that I shot 2 deer . Deer 1 rattled in walking 1/4 ing toward me 60 yards shot 1 no reaction , Shot 2 running 1/4ing past me no reaction , shot 3 right under me running no reaction . Didn't have any more shells in the gun. I could see glimps of him for about 150 yards as he ran through the edge of a clear cut . Shot 1 hit , lots of hair . shot 2 ? shot 3 hit just beside the spine exit between the front legs . He had a 3" hole on the entrance side from shot 1 or 2, no exit . Shot 3 was .338 in .338 out . He ran around 300 yards total . Lots of blood . Deer 2 broadside lung shot 130 yards. 338 in .338 out . Blood and hair at site of hit never found a drop after that. he went about 80 yards . This year 210 Partions in a 338 RUM @ 3170. deer rattled in 1/4 ing to me , in on point of shoulder out about at the diaphraim. .338 in 50 cent out . Folded up like an accordian. Love the RUM . Got a 300 RUM thats begging to be hunted with too.

Also want a good exit hole for the same reasons but a bit north of you.

Shot about half a dozen whitetail with the 200 BT out of a 338. Good exits and blood trails. Mostly they made it a few to 35 yards or so.

Switched to a 185 grain as I thought the 200 was a bit stout.

Have been sidetracked a bit with some of the newer bonded bullets in 7mm caliber. Thinking you could get the same results provided the mushroom stayed at 2x and you had enough retained shank to carry out quartering shots.

The 139 IBs I used this year out of a 7x57 did not exit on 2 quartering away shots but they did do a ton of internal damage and retained 2x expansion. Am pondering Barnes MRX or the Swift A-frame in 140g.

I have an amazingly accurate 338 win mag on a Rem M700 BDL. I have used either 200 gr Winchesters or 225 gr Remington loads in it for deer because of the accuracy and fit of the rifle.

I have never experienced a blood trail. Not a single one of the 9 deer I have taken with that rifle took another step...maybe it really is too much gun? My 308 have had many a blood trail that were 30-100 yards.

Most of the time a deer will fall in a few feet when hit with the 358 Win. I use the softer lighter bullets like the 200 gr Silvertip and now the 180 Speer.

But one large buck that was hit in the lungs at about 60 yds ran 40 yds before going down.

There was fresh snow there and I found a some spray of blood where the shot hit him and then nothing for a while til some spray came out maybe when they exhale.

I know that a hit on the edge of a vital area with a large powerful bullet is more effective than that with a smaller bullet. This is why I favor more powerful rounds.

Shot placement is not "everything". The size of the wound matters too and in fact a larger wound improves shot placement.

I haven't used my 338s much for deer but on bear I've gotten great blod trails and no blood at all. I think it has a lot to do with where the bullet exits from. My best blood trail was from a black bear hit with my .416 Taylor. The bear droped in it's tracks and the blood trailed out about 3-4 feet the other side so in this case the blood went farther than the animal. As far as deer are concerned my heaviest blood trail yet was while using a 270 Win /150gr Hornadys on a New York whitetail and their was not exit. Dang thing made it a good 100 yards down the mountain with no lungs and we still can't figure out how.

i have read alot of good things about the nosler accubond.

I have only shot one deer with a 338 cal and that was a 70 lb bambi.

It was with a 338-06 and 250 hornaday at 2450fps.

All I have to say is that that bullet placed between the eyes of that deer at 20 feet left no blood trail just brains all over the place.

quote:

the blood went farther than the animal

Thats what I am talking about with my 338 on deer and bear.

I have shot only five whitetails so far: 4 with a .308 (3 with Norma Oryx and 1 with Sako SSH) and 1 with .338 Win Mag 250 grains Woodleigh PP.

Results have been confusing. Three small whitetails have dropped on spot with the .308 and one ran about 30 metres before expiring. All shots behind the shoulder and 3/4 had blood around them as I found them.

The one I shot with .338 Win was almost what I would call a perfect shot behind the shoulder from 90-degree angle at about 40 metres. The animal jumped once and ran away very quickly with four others present. I went to the place where it had been, and there was no blood, no hair or anything else except tracks in the snow. I followed them with a torch as far as I could, but there were so much tracks that I couldn't really tell where the one I shot had gone. I called a friend to come and help me and together we searched about half an hour, when he found it from a frozen ditch about 70 metres from the place I shot it, stone-dead. The shot was perfect, 1" holes on both sides of a good-sized cow, lungs mushed and no blood anywhere around the animal. And there was snow all over. So, against all odds, the .338 had the most unimpressing result of those five occasions. But that's probably because of the bullet. The 250 grain PP is probably a bit too tough a bullet for whitetail, I guess.

I agree that 250 is not ideal but it did the job. Quicker kills likely with lighter bullets in the 338 but I am surprised no blood trail.

You did say 1" in and out, so perhaps it was WHERE the bullet went and how it may have lacked expanding much.

I've never had to blood trail anything shot with my 338-06 or 350 Rem Mag, be it deer or elk.

I shot two wh\tetails does over the week. One with a 35 Whelen and a 225 Nosler BT @ 2450 fps, and the other with my 6.5x57 with a 120 Rem PSPCL @ about 2650 fps. The Whelen-hit deer ran about 50s yds and then expired (and slid down a hill - ugh). The 6.5x57-hit deer dropped where she stood. 50 yds for the whelen and 80 yds for the 6.5x57...

The Whelen left a golf ball size exit hole and an impressive (albeit unnecessary for "tracking" purposes) blood trail in the snow.

Go figure...

I shot a Whitetail doe last week at 150 yds with a 338 Hawk - 200 grain Nosler BT. MV of about 2800 fps. Broadside - lung shot lower third of body. Complete pass through, 1.5" hole in exit side. Blood trail was impressive -- looked like some one poured it out of bucket.
Lung shot was on purpose as I wanted to minimize the meat damage.

9.3, interesting as I killed 3 deer with the 6.5x55 and the 120 RP CL, one spined at 110 yds, one neck shot 30 yds, another through the chest at about same distance. ALL 3 dropped where they stood.

That bullet is a good one for deer. My deer I shot with 260 and 129 did go a little ways, I believe it might be a little 'harder' than the RP 120.

I've only shot 2 deer with my 35 Whelen; both with 225 gr. Partition @ close to 2700 fps, both deer 100 yds. +/-. It didn't leave a blood trail, it left a blood puddle as they didn't take a single step. And actually I feel kind of silly using such a monsterous cartridge for whitetail, but I hadn't yet shot an elk with it and was dying to kill something with it.

6.5

The 129gr Hornady is a little on the hard side, you have to drive it at max velocities in a .260 or 6.5X55, to get good expansion.

I have used a 120gr Barnes X in a 6.5X55, on small whitetail does, and they expanded well killing the animals quickly. Obviously not needed for small does, but i would shoot a large buck at any angle with that same bullet and know that it would out-penetrate many conventional 140gr bullets.

I know this goes against the conventional wisdom but I have taken truck loads of caribou with the 6.5 Rem Mag and 120 Sierras, and many with the 350 Rem Mag with 200 Rem CL. On average the 6.5 kills them faster.

This is easily a statistically relevant result as between my wife and I we can take up to 10/year and I have been taking caribou since 85.

These are meat animals with an average weight of maybe 175-200 pounds.

The usual reaction with the 6.5 is collapse. The ususal reaction with the 350 is stagger and drop or a short run and pile-up.

On a broadside or neck shot the 6.5 also creates bigger exit wounds.

On a quartering shot the 350 has picked up enough resistance to expand enough to create a good exit. Penetration is also complete where the 6.5 120 Sierras won't exit at all on a quartering shot.

Anyway just goes to show you that the exit wound issue is more complex than the starting diameter.

On a related note 405 Rem hot loaded in my 450 Marlin to 1900ft/sec create incredible entrance wounds, and when the exit that's pretty impressive too.