In Nosler Reloading Guide Number 1 there are no loads for any 8mm cartridge, presumably because Nosler made no bullets in that bore diameter at that time.

In Nosler Reloading Guide Number 2, using a Remington 40X action with a 26" Atkinson barrel, Win cases and Win 8 1/2 primers, Nosler shows H-335, IMR-4064, Win 760, and IMR 4350 powders used. The fastest load is 52.0 gr of IMR-4350 attaining 2698 fps and it is the most accurate load with IMR-4350.

In Nosler Reloading Guide Number 3, using an unspecified action with a 24" Douglas test barrel, Federal cases and WLR primer, Nosler shows the same four powders used. The fastest load is 52.0 gr of IMR-4350 attaining 2700 fps and it is the most accurate load with the most accurate powder, IMR-4350 and it has a Loading Density of 104%.

In Nosler Reloading Guide Number 4, using an unspecified action now with a 24 Lilja barrel, Federal cases and WLR primer, Nosler shows the same four powders plus N-150 and N-160. The fastest load is 52.0 gr of IMR-4350 attaining 2698 fps and it is the most accurate load with the most accurate powder, IMR-4350 and it has a Loading Density of 101%.

In Nosler Reloading Guide Number 5, using an unspecified action with a 24" Lilja barrel, Federal cases and WLR primer, Nosler shows the same four powders, but dropped H-335 and added Varget (now shown as the most accurate powder). The fastest load is 52.0 gr of IMR-4350 attaining 2698 fps and it is the most accurate load with IMR-4350 and it has a Loading Density of 101%.

In Number 5, the 180 gr Ballistic Tip shows up, but the fastest load attains only 2669 fps (29 fps slower than the 200 gr load). Also showing up for the first time are loads for the 8-06 and the fastest load for the 200 gr Partition is 2628 (70 fps slower than the 8 x57 load).

Does anyone smell something fishy about all this? Nosler has used three different barrel makes, two different barrel lengths, two different primers and obtains essentially the same results. So much for beleiving everything you read in reloading manuals.

I have used 52.0 gr of IMR-4350 with the 200 gr Partion in a sporterized Mauser 98 as a back-up rifle for elk. I can attest to its accuracy (about MOA with a 3 power scope) but never shot it at elk. The listed velocity seems way to fast for me, although I wish it were true. My question is has anybody used this load and chronographed it for velocity and what did you get? What do you think of this apparently fictional data given over the years?

I'm sure you know this already, but every rifle is a law unto itself in terms of its velocity yield with a given component mixture. Having a chronograph, I have seen both confirmation and refutation of velocity data provided in the several manuals.

Your situation--MOA groups with the 200 grain Partition--even if the load only provided 2500 FPS, you are still matching the 348 Winchester's muzzle energy with that load, and improving upon it greatly as it proceeds downrange due to better ballistic coefficient. VERY few M-71's did MOA groups, I'm sure. The 348 was considered quite capable as an Alaska/nasty critter cartridge--and the 200 grain Partition has few peers in the "controlled expansion" venue.

My own view--if you can get 2400 FPS with that fine bullet from your rig, hunt elk with it. There is a lot more to game-taking than simply velocity--hit location being paramount. A 1 MOA rifle will enable good hits very reliably. I had considered one of the Rem 700 Classics in 8 x 57 using this same bullet, but the great results with the CZ-550 in 9.3 x 62 over-shadowed the need for an 8 x 57--Nosler 286 Partitions at 2425 FPS with only slight pressure signs at 60 degrees F. The test will come this summer in 100+ temps.

I basically agree with you on your comments. I am concerned with velocity not for velocity's sake, or even energy's sake, but rather trajectory' sake. I tend to want to set my sights with a maximum ordinate that I can tolerate for the game I'm hunting, say 4 inches with an elk, and setting the sights accordingly. To do this I need a reasonable estimate of velocity so that I can determine both the 100 yard impact point, the far zero distance, and the maximum yardage for minus 4 inches, and maybe the drop at 300 and 400 yards.

I tend to agree with your assesment of Noslers data although that isnt the first piece of data Ive seen reaching those #'s from an 8X57. In an old NRA book and an old bit of Norma data I see certian loads doing essentially the same thing, but I believe the cases where one does accomplish that from an 8X57 will be the exception rather than commonplace.



It seems to me that a lot of manufacturers will carry over old data in new manuals and It appears that Nosler did too, cant say whats up with the firearm variations though, its almost like someone just made them up..

In a good strong Mauser with a long throat and many 8x57s have long throats you can get 2600 FPS plus with a 200 gr. Nosler, at least according to my chronograph..I got it with a healthy dose of H414 and no pressure problems...The long throat is or near the equivelent of an improved chamber..My rifle was a Brno 21 with a 24 inch barrel and I seated the 200 gr. out as far as the 06 length magazine would allow and that is a bunch, which gave me quite a bit over book max with H414..I do the same with my 7x57 Brno M22F...

I chronographed all loads.

Most 8x57 loads in the books are way low because of all the old bad Mausers floating around today..Same for the 7x57 along with the M-95, 96 actions, so if you have a modern steel rifle on a good action, then you must work up your own loads in these two calibers...but be aware not all the loading books are on the low end because of this, but they mostly have a warning label attached..

The military barrels in 8x57JS will vary the pressure,mostly down,and thus the velocity.Ken Waters in his Pet Loads wrote about that.

Janus, I have tried that load mentioned in the Nosler manual and could not even come close to the posted velocities. The best I could get out of 52 gr. of IMR 4350 , Fed 215 primers with Speer 200 gr bullets is 2320 fps. That is with a 23 � " barrel. I tried various other powders trying to achieve the 2600 fps mark, but could not. The closest I got was with 51 gr IMR 4064 for 2545 fps. Next was with 47 gr AA 2520 for 2469 fps.

I also think that that IMR 4350 load is a little too optimistic.

Deputy Al

I certainly agree with your conclusions about using the 200 grain Partition on elk or other large game. I have a Steyr Professional chambered for the 8x57, and the 200 grain Nosler Partition is the bullet I exclusively use in it all the time.

I have had a different experience with the M71 .348 Winchester, though. I have had 3 of those rifles, & 2 M'86 .33 Wins and ALL would group 1 MOA or slightly better at 100 yards with 200 gr. bullets in their most accurate loads. I can't comment, though, on how they might do at 200 yards or beyond. As none of my M-71s were scope sighted, I never tried them for groups at 200 or beyond. With my none-too-great vision, 100-150 yards was all I felt really secure shooting at with my peep and bead combos. I dislike wounding even worse than missing....

AC

N.B.: If I can find my temporarily displaced binder with 40+ years of the loads for about 100 different calibers I have tried, I'll also post my 8x57 loads...there aren't many, but I have owned a couple of dozen 8x57's, 8 m/m-06's and 8 m/m-06 AI's...

Hart and Janus,

I would say that you gentlemen are seating your bullets deeper in the case than need be. Check out the throat length in your chamber by just barely seating a bullet in a dummy round and then pushing the bolt closed seating it all the way down as far as it will go. Eject the case and measure the length. Then seat your loads about a mm lower or so.

I may be wrong and welcome being corrected by someone in the know, however I have found 4350 and 4831 for example, will actually seem to appear to have lower pressure when compressed then when their is some air in the chamber between the powder and the bullet ( hence that explosive thing you always hear about, with downloads utilizing those two powders, but everyone applies to all downloads.)

By not seating my bullets very deeply at all, I have not only got what Nosler has posted in their manual, but have exceeded it with the same charge weight, in a 22 and 23 inch barreled VZ 24 , Turkish Mauser & K98.

Also I don't think you mentioned what kind of primers you were using. They don't always change things much, but I have seen instances where they can. I always use a large rifle primer in my loads,and also have used Rem 8mm Mauser and Federal 8mm Mauser brass.

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire