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| One of Us |
I'm sure its been asked before but do muzzle breaks improve accuracy or just annoy everyone shooting next to me? God loves you | ||
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Yes | |||
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There are some muzzle brakes out there that reduce recoil significantly and don't increase the noise level that much. Vais made some version 2 brakes that fit the bill and have performed wonderfully. He sold his business and moved back to Greece but I think the people that also bought his suppressor business HTG, also have his muzzle brake patents. Do a Google on them as I don't remember the name of the new business but they are located in Idaho. | |||
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Ron Bartlett bought the Vais business some time ago when George Vais went back to Greece. Then Geroge came back and started his own rival business again and Ron sued him in court. I have not been following this and so don't know where it stands. Having said all that, I don't believe that the technology is all that sophisticated and there are many companies that make and fit muzzle brakes. I bought mine from GS Custom in RSA, had it fitted to my CZ 416 Rigby and love it! There was another company that came out with a brake that (videos showed) actually depressed the muzzle! Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Definitely make you a better shooter. Lets you concentrate on proper shooting form rather than getting the crap beat out of you. I always wear ear protection when I shoot with a brake or without. I have/had many Vias brakes, not impressed with them. If you have a Wby, in my opinion thier Accubrake does one hell of a job. Last year I had Triple River Gunsmithing put a brake on a 458 LOTT and liked it a-Lott. Did a great job and was a good looking brake w/thread protector for $135.00--bargain. KDF is one I wouldn't hesitate to use. Then the slotted brakes do a good job. My elk guns--338 RUM & 30-378 Wby both are braked and a joy to shoot. Many times, I can spot my own hits both here on the range and on game. After the 06 & 7mm Mag I have a brake on all my guns Phil NRA Life Member since 1976 philny1@zoominternet.net 877 485-6270 Visa/MC accepted , plus 3% We have to save the Earth, only planet with beer!! "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". Thomas Jefferson | |||
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Vias came back a bitter man. He lost his lawsuit and claimed conspiricy. I think he is a little off his rocker now. I don't use brakes, but Ron is good to deal with. Butch | |||
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I disagree. I've seen the documents in the Vais case and there are always 2 sides to a story. George later developed an improved muzzle brake and that is the one that is so good. Peter, I'm not sure but I was told that a muzzle brake that reduces the sound level is technically a suppressor and would require the proper registration and payment for the permit. | |||
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They annoy the person shooting next to you. I don't use the brake on my 338 wm. I don't consider the recoil heavy, but even if it was, I would not use the brake. | |||
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NO, they do not improve accuracy on their own. However, data does indicate that brakes provides more confidence by reducing the intimidating recoil on the shooter. In addition, extended brakes aid in flash suppression and most importantly for the sniper, distribute the sound waves produced by the blast in a multi-directional pattern helping to reduce a location signature. With a properly balanced brake, recoil can be reduced by (up to) 40%. | |||
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I have the Recoil Eliminator from J.P. Enterprises on my .300 Win. Mag. It works very well. I will say in my opinion the reduction in felt recoil lets you concentrate better on the shot thus helping you shoot better. Molon Labe New account for Jacobite | |||
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 I've designed and built or have had built my own muzzle brakes. If used early enough at the range they don't annoy anyone, cause no one is there. They are a God send to an old fart who has become recoil sensitive.  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Muzz;e brakes can improve accuracy. I have seen it many times. Muzzle brakes are a compromise as many things are. On high pressure rounds they will decrease felt recoil up to 50%. Kenny Jarrett puts them on all his custom rifles because they improve accuracy. They also increase noise and concusion about the same as they decrease recoil. Vias breaks don't work any better than others. If they have less concusion they also have less recoil reduction, nothing is free. I like muzzle brakes , but don't use them hunting because of the people that may be around without ear protection....Tom SCI lifer NRA Patron DRSS DSC | |||
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Magna Port seems to be a good compromise between taking the bite out of recoil without shattering your eardrums too much. ----------------------------------------------------- Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him. Proverbs 26-4 National Rifle Association Life Member | |||
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Teancum, Go to his website and read what he has to say. http://www.vaismuzzlebrakes.com/ He blames George Bush Sr. and the Republican judges for ruling against him. Yes, there are more than one side of the story. I hope he is moving on with his life and quit whining about a ad business decision that he made years ago or did he get greedy? Butch | |||
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On a medium bore? Why? | |||
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Ya I should have mentioned I am thinking of a 308 in a heavy rifle so recoil isn't a factor I just didn't know if it would make a rifle shoot better. I fully believe in muzzle brakes on big bores I have a 416 rigby barrel on my encore and it has the factory muzzle tammer/ muzzle break on it and its a joy to shoot. Thanks for all the helpful posts but I still can't decide but I have plenty of time for that God loves you | |||
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 2 Micro second exposure of gases on a 8x68S muzzle recoil brake. Result: It reduced the recoil impulse by 41% Warrior | |||
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Will, what 308 do you have? I have a Rem 700 HB in 308 and it shoots VERY well without a muzzle brake, so I have not need for one on it! Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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interesting i have seen several african outfitters do not allow muzzle brakes. Not sure i agree or disagree but i think there will more to follow | |||
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There are the owners of the latest muzzle brakes www.activecamo.com And there is the truth story www.vaismuzzlebrakes.com | |||
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I have shot several different muzzle breaks and KDF seems the best to me. All of them are LOUD including the Vais. However, I now use Magna Port. It takes the hard sla out of the recoil, and cuts way down on muzzle rise. It does not seem any louder to me than a regular unbraked barrel, and it does not kick up grass, dust, or snow when shooting prone. I have MP barrels in 300 Win Mag and 375 H&H. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Peter I don't have my 308 yet I just needed to now if it would be a more accurate gun with one but I know I don't enjoy shooting next to some one who does God loves you | |||
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Am I wrong to think if you need a muzzle break YOU NEED A SMALLER CALIBER?  | |||
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I wonder if we're confusing a "muzzle break" with a barrel BOSS? A BOSS will tune the harmonics in the rifle barrel to match the load, and yes they improve accuracy if you take the time to tune them. http://www.browning.com/custom...na/detail.asp?id=108 | |||
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I promise I know the difference between a muzzle break and boss God loves you | |||
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Had a 378 with a KDF and it was better to shoot than my 8x68 | |||
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I'm thinking the same thing and I'm a recoil wuss who regularly shoots big bores. Dean ...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men. -Edward, Duke of York | |||
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What is the mechanism for obtaining greater accuracy? | |||
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Only an idiot like you will say some thing like that, or an asshole like you. You mast be so stupid not to be able to read documents i have send to Senators. If i was liar and and stupid as you are, i was going to to that only, by sending false documents to senators it was going big problem, and only an idiot like you will not understand that. I have not getting against you the way i do now because happen to know Saeed wile i was in Houston, but there is so much from you that i was not able to take. By the way Bartlett was to close to loose his arms and his legs from multiple bullets. Just because i do not tolerate dishonesty. | |||
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"Real Vias" The tone of your post does not encourage me to do business with you.....even though I wish to give you credit for your products and am looking for the best brake for my rifle. Good luck, Dan | |||
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Yes, muzzle brakes are loud and do reduce recoil but no they do not improve accuracy by themselves. Reduced recoil may assist a shooter in being more confident with his rifle leading to better accuracy but there is not direct improvement associated with a brake. Barrel tuners, such as the BOSS system do improve accuracy by adjusting the barrel harmonics for a given load. Captain Finlander | |||
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George, I'm sure you are a very good gunsmith. You just need to get to work doing your gunsmithing and quit blaming everybody else for your problems. Life ain't fair! Butch | |||
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In a word, Yes! I have a muzzle brake (note the spelling) on my 416 Rigby not to reduce recoil but rather to reduce muzzle flip and bring the barrel back on target quicker. I really do not care whether it reduces recoil or not. Honestly, no one has explained to my satisfaction why a muzzle brake should reduce felt recoil. Anecdotal evidence says it does, but I have not noticed it. Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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I am sorry to be a pain but I am in touch with the owner of this photograph Do you have his permission to use it publicly ? | |||
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From the Vais website: Q. What makes the Vais brake quieter than other brakes? A. Our Vais brake has eight small holes drilled from the muzzle of the brake. These holes are drilled through all of the cross ports and terminate in a small expansion chamber just ahead of the barrel muzzle. This configuration very effectively vents most of the noise and concussion away from the shooter. And dug up from an old thread http://forums.accuratereloadin.../3221043/m/803107706 :
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Muzzle brake REDIRECTS BOTH the sound AND the gas...and most of the rest of the BS is SUBJECTIVE and mostly in the minds of the beholders. I make my own MB's and have tested several designs on a few of my biggies...the tests had NO scientific merit, I didn't set up the test under any parameters other that "which one hurt less". After a while I just started buying MB's from Harrel's Precision...for 30 bucks you can't beat them with a stick...they work and I can't tell any difference between those and a copy of "the Quiet Brake"...AGAIN...most of this is all SUBJECTIVE...only in the mind. The total bullshi* about getting a smaller caliber is just that...TOTAL BULLSHI*. I've been shooting bigbores for a while now, but at 70 years old with failing health, body falling apart and mother nature FU***** with me, the only way I can enjoy my big bores is with a MB. I can still shoot all my big bores standing OR from the bench, including my biggest, a 12 GAFH with 1000 gr cast lead and brass slugs, and not need to bed up or eat heavy duty pain pills for a month. I know there is a whole bunch of gorilla sized MOFO's out there dick waving, chewing nails for snacks and bending steel bars, but in the real world you are few and far between...the rest of us have to live with being average pissants. JalabiHunter...Very good test...BUT...if you want a REAL comparison test, stick the decible meter OUT IN FRONT of the gun without the MB attached, keeping the distances equal...that will at least compare the noise produced by the brake at the side to the actual sound produced by the unmodified rifle...THAT SOUND DIFFERENCE is what all the krap is mostly about. To do a more effective test you can add moving the meter away at differing distances to see what the sound level drop off is...that information will be of value also. If you have a MB, be considerate about your fellow shooters...in use, all you have to do is wear a set of active ear muffs and you can still hear that raging rabbit coming at you from the bushes, your shooting buddy running away screaming in terror, and NOT have hearing loss when you become the "Great Beasty Hunter" and blow that beast away.  Nothing like asking a question about MB's to bring out the green eyed monster in every shooter. Luck | |||
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I don't understand why you would want to know the decibel level in front of the gun with or without the MB. Who stands in front of gun to hear the noise? Measuring the noise off to the side and from the rear would be real world situations. I have never been bothered by MBs at most gun ranges. When there is a roof over the shooter that gives the sounds something to bounce off of, it seems to be much louder than normal. I will probably get a vias MB in the near future for one particular rifle with heavy recoil. | |||
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It's "muzzle brake," and "BOSS" -- an acronym, (Ballistic Optimizing Shooting System). | |||
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You said it, Simon1...at a range the roof etc is redirecting the sound just like a muzzle brake does, but at many different angles...the MB directs the sound/gas at a 90° angle or something close, depending on how the holes were drilled. It has NOTHING to do with standing in front of the muzzle and EVERYTHING to do with comparing how much noise is being produced by the MB and how much noise is coming from the unmodified muzzle. Remember...with a MB, PART of the noise and gas is being redirected and part of the noise and gas is still going forward out the muzzle. The suggestion was to get as much usable, useful and comparable information as possible... I have a 4" S&W Md 19 Combat Masterpiece .357 I had Magnaported. It does better with 140 gr and above bullet weights than with the usual 125 gr "SuperVels" I load for most hunting/self defense. The only problem is when practicing quick draws and close target drills the Magnaporting directs the gas and sound right back into my face and upper body...not a good thing when you're in the shi*....and no good with a scope...No problem with revolver at eye level. The same goes for several other "personal defense" shooters I know about, and I guarantee you DON'T want to touch off a 44 maggy in ANY short barreled revolver OR auto, unless you just can't learn from anyone who knows telling you the facts of life. As I said...talking about MB's...and EVERY gun forum has lots of "stuff"...will always bring out the crankyness. Read the posts, do the legwork and decide for yourself. Luck | |||
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Actually, the noise reduction/redirection to the fromt can have a benafit, IE: when you have several "4 legged targets" out in front of you (and multipal tags in your pocket) as IME deer can't seem to locate where the first shot came from, which leaves them more likely to stand around wondering why "Aunt Martha" is laying on the ground rather than running off. | |||
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