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one of us |
Hi As aformer tool maker I've experienced a lot with forging and hardning .I''l be glad if you talk about your experiences. Best regards Danny | ||
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Moderator |
Bruz, You anneal the file by heating it up to about 1850 degrees. The color is described as "cherry red", it will change from being a dull red to developing an internal luminosity, if that makes sense, mainly it is really glowing now but not an orange color. When it is that color you cool it down as slowly as possible, preferably overnight. A good way to do this is build a nice fire in a fireplace and put the file in the coals, then go to sleep. It will be annealed in the morning. Grind it with whatever you have, but if you have a bench grinder less than 3/4 hp be prepared to be patient. Cool the blade often, I like to teach dunking the blade in water and grind on the wet blade, when it heats up the water will steam off and you know it is time to dunk again. You can use all sorts of expensive stuff to grind with but the finished products depend more on the person. Now to temper you need some way to heat the blade back up to 1850 degrees then you cool it quickly this time, usually by dunking in oil. This will make the blade so hard it easily scratched glass, but it will also be brittle as glass, you can break it into pieces by giving it a whack onto a hard surface, so you need to temper it which crudely put adds toughness. To do this you first polish the blade with sandpaper then heat it to oh about 450, where the steel turns a gun-blue color. Actually I usually go to a straw-yellow color on the edge and then heat the back of the knife a little more to turn it a blue, so I have a harder edge and a tougher spine. Here is a poor picture of a knife forged from an automobile coil spring. The steel tempers similarly to the steel in a file, but it had a high chromium content which made it a bother to forge. | |||
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one of us |
If the file is made of L1 tool steel the annealng temp would be 1450 and the hardening temp 1500F. Annealing and hardening at 1800 would risk large grain formation .Tempering to color is not really satisfactory, much better for a thorough tempering process would be to put it in your kitchen oven for one hour. | |||
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Moderator |
Aren't most files made from 1095 steel? | |||
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one of us |
Hi Let me see the high carbon steels(1%C+) as in file are hard to forge and brittel after hardening and car springs (usually alloys with around 0,6- 0% C,7 + some cr and v) are better choice but you have to quench them in oil or air and are difficult to forge and harden propperly( because it needs a long time of warming 1 hour or so in order to solve cr and v carbides in the steel anf if you do this in air or not in vaccum owen your going to loose carbon in the steel and it becomes too soft) the best choice is a plain half away steel c around 0,6 or maybe 0,7% with 0,1 % vanadium quenched in oil or water and tempered in around 270- 300 degree celsius which gives a nice black colour. best regards Danny | |||
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one of us |
Many files are made of W-1, but more importantly... if not specified YOU JUST DONT KNOW. I have played with files and springs, but drill rod is cheap, and you know what it is | |||
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<Bruz> |
Thanks for the info... but drill rod is cheap, and you know what it is I don't ...what is it made of and what temperature does it take to anneal it? Where would one get some? I assume it is round, do you pound it out before you grind? Thanks! | ||
one of us |
Drill rod may be made of more than one steel but your supplier can tell you what it is. But drill rod often implies small diameter rod and you would need more material.You can get tool steel strip from your steel supplier or do a search for knife material suppliers such as Texas knife Supply.If you are making a spear the typical sword making steels O1, L6, 5160 would be suitable. | |||
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one of us |
Bruz, Mete... I get all of my steel from MSC and J&L. You can get tool steel in rectangular shape no problem, esp O-1 I have sheets of O-1 for small parts. I have no problem forging round stock. I used drill rod/ round stock as an example BECAUSE it is less expensive than rectangular stock. I have never used L6 but I think some LARGE band saw blades, used to cut trees in mills, were made from it. Is it easy to work with? | |||
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one of us |
The three steels I mentioned that are used for sword making O1,L6 5160, are all relatively easy to work with ,forging heat treating and final properties of hardness and toughness for spears.They have to be easy to work since some of the swordmaking is somewhat crude. O1 would be a bit better for knives since it has higher carbon. | |||
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one of us |
Holy Shiite! Glad I started reading this forum again. Am learning something. | |||
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Moderator |
Can someone post a pic of a spear head that would be a candidate for replicating? If possible a ruler or something else in it to show scale. Thanks, Mark | |||
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one of us |
Hi Mark If you visit coldsteel's site you can find some pictures. they have one which is made of formed steel sheet which I own it is made of medium carbon steel,but it is realy tough and sharp. regards danny | |||
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one of us |
go to www.atlantacutlery.com | |||
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one of us |
Guys, The point that one cannot be absolutely certain of the material in surplus stuff is very important. The steel and heat treat are the heart of the blade, and the heat treat depends on the steel. A good source of known materials is: Admiral Steel They carry stainless and carbon steels in reasonable form factors at pretty reasonable rates. As we began making knives we developed methods of heat treating that gave pretty good knives. When we acquired a hardness tester with good reference blocks we became aware that what seemed pretty consistent was less so than we believed. We went to computer controlled salt pots as a result, and the consistency improved considerably! | |||
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One of Us |
someone please correct me.....I thought files are case hardened?? There is one you might try. I'm betting (having been an engineer with a major league lawn mower company for 14 years) that all rotary lawn mower blades in the united states is 1566. It can be heated and flattened and ground to shape and rehardened. It's hardness isnt too hard such that it breaks and is still ready for some very rugged use. | |||
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one of us |
I always wondered what they were made of.1566 is a .66%Carbon 1.00% manganese alloy.Uught to be good for a number of things. | |||
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