Gentlemen

I would like to know what type of boots you use for backpacking and hunting. How much insulation do they have? Gore Tex or? Other selection criteria’s you have for boots.

All comments are appreciated

Cheers
/JOHAN

Johan, tough to reccomend boots to someone as conditions vary widely depending on the area hunted and time of year. Also, what works for my feet may not work for yours. The problem with insulation in a boot is it holds moisture and is difficult to dry out on multiday trips. That's why removeable insulated liners are best for real cold, either mountaineering at 8000 meters or snowshoeing in the rolling forests of Maine.

Where are you planning to hunt and at what time of year? What temps are you likely to encounter? What is the terrain like?

I wore Cabela's Alaskan Hunter by Meindl on my Dall sheep hunt in the NWT this summer. Very comfortable and no blisters! They probably saved me from breaking an ankle a couple of times.

I did not encounter a lot of water on the trip. They provided good traction on rock and snow.

I will use them on my next trip.

I second the Mendl's. I use the Canadian Hunters with 200 Gram thinsulate and I use Smartwool socks. Best boots I have ever used in 30 years of hunting.

What does every one think about the best waterproof boot. I have heard from people that hike alot that gortex is not breathable enough and and strait leather boot trated with waterproff oil is better. I personally like gortex.

There's no such thing as a leater, waterproof boot... I find goretex prone to leaking and too hot in warm conditions. I prefer a goretex sock. Beeswax is still the best way to keep leather from leaking and, better yet, a big rubber rand.

For cold weather and snow in the northern Rockies I use Schnees,made in Bozeman, Montana, 16" treated leather tops with felt liners and rubber bottoms with airbob soles. In good weather I have always used Red Wing leather hunters with good ankle support. I have waivered from non- insulated to 200 grams of thinsulate. I find the thinsulate wears out long before the boots. Grease with Mink Oil or Montana Pitchblend often!!!! Vibram soles.

I realize that they're not for everyone but I really like my Koflach plastic boots.....I have a pair of Hunters(discontinued) and a pair of Degre.....I dont use the booties that come w/them....most of the time a pair of fleece socks under a pair of Bama socks(low booties) work very well....the fleece socks stay dry all day. If it's colder, I add a pair of Smartwool liners under the fleece socks.....add a pair of Sealskinz socks, in whatever combination you like, and you're waterproof along w/the boots.....the boots are virtually indestructible and can be resoled.

They take a bit of getting used to, but they work well for me.

Joe

...There's no such thing as a leather, waterproof boot..., I must have said that 10,000 times when I was selling gear and fitting boots just before I retired. Beeswax is good, putting it on can be tricky and it can loosen rubber rands as can about any waterproofing used improperly.

For most wet hunting, Schnee's pacs with good gaiters work best and I have pretty much abandoned the several pair of very high quality leather climbing boots I own in favour of this combo.

For really steep conditions, Joe's system strikes me as a really good idea; I might just try someting like that once my Van Gorkums are paid for. I keep going to MEC, looking at the Degres and contemplating how they would work for me, especially on long trails into the alpine. A very interesting system.....

I have been using Schnees for over 10yrs--can't go wrong with them IMO--very versatile for mountains to prairie---chris

I think Schnee's makes one of the better rubber bottom/leather top boots. I prefer their non-insulated profesional/guide version in a 14-16" height w/ green Superfeet insoles, plasti-seemed and greased w/ Montana Pitch. I'll wear Smartwool liner and boot socks. This combo is good for me in most situations excluding steep climbing w/ heavy packs. I've had this combination submeged in water for long periods w/ out a leak. When the temps go below 20 degrees, I'll use the Schnee's pack version.

With a heavy pack combined w/ steep climbing, I think that the AJ Brooks Canadian Pro is one of the better tall boots provided your feet are not too wide. Gore-Tex is absolutely worthless for waterproofing in my book, but AJ Brooks uses it in this boot for the purpose of speeding up drying. They continue to believe in their technique of greasing the boot for waterproofing.

I'm convinced that we are different enough as individuals that what is perfect for one person may be absolutely abismal for another.

Gary

I have to say my danners have held up very nicely for 2 years of hard hunting on rocky terrain, lots of snow, mud, creeks. I have never gotton wet. I chose the 400 gram thinsulate but if i was hunting in very cold weather i would get the 800 gr. Hope this helps.

Ya'll are driving me mad! I will be going into the NWT in late September after moose/mt. caribou and cannot make up my mind on footwear. This will be a backpack hunt and hopefully more wet and less mountains! I have so many boots but have been told that one pair is it for this backpack trip! Better be right! In my mind I have given up on the USA brand of Lacrosse hip boots due to the 3-5 miles of daily walking. I have the LL bean 12" rubber/leather tops that are comfortable but do not think them high enough nor waterproof even with goretex liner. Looking at the Schnees but they as well are leather topped at 16" which is probably high enough but can I get them to be water proof enough to walk in 12" of wet? I am thinking non-insulated 16" variety such as the Guide boot? Still these are rubberized bottoms and will they work w/o blisters through maybe 30-40 miles in ten days? Guide says to "beware" all leather as they will not dry out in case of getting watersoaked. Damn leather boots I have are already heavy enough without five lbs of water weight added. All suggestions please.

If you can take waders and a pair of boots your set...I use the lightest cabelas waders in combo with cabelas/meindl 14 inchers.Moose hunting will be wet better have at least hip waders.

By the way, forget about Schnees if you have wide feet. The don't come in wide, and they try to tell you that everthing will be fine if you get the next size up. Believe me, everything will not be fine!

If I was going where it was wet, but not high enough for hip boots, I would buy some of those knee high Lacrosse or Browning rubber insulated boots from Cabelas.

Well the feet are not wide but the instep is very high which makes all types of "non-tie" waders, hip boots, knee boots extremely hard to get on and off. I have the old US made Lacrosse hip boots but have been told that walking for 5-7 miles per day in rubber can really tear ones feet up?

I've used full-leather Meindls for the last decade. Unfortunately they lost waterproofing long ago. I have very small feet, about size 5 1/2, so I'm always struggling tremendously finding a decent fitting boot. The Meindls I have are actually the lady's issue, which are a bit narrower. I usually end up buying lady's boots.... I guess I need to go look at new ones soon. I like the look of the LOWA (?) Sheephunters... but unfortunately they don't come that small, and as far as I know not in a lady's version...

Frans

[QUOTE]Originally posted by muygrande:
Guide says to "beware" all leather as they will not dry out in case of getting watersoaked. QUOTE]

Oh, that is so true! I took my aforementioned all-leather Meindls to Scotland, where we experienced the worst downpour ever, days on end. The boots were practically new, with plenty of waterproofing stuff rubbed into it, but after three days... they were soaked through. And they didn't dry overnight, nor in the few hours in the cabin between outings.

I like the Schnees Hunter model, if the going isn't too tough. So not for high country hunts, but they might be just the ticket for swampy hunts. Just waterproof the hell out of the shafts, and seal where the leather is stitched to the rubber. Haven't really used them on a multi day swamp trip though. I mainly use them in the snow and low temps, with plenty of big socks... for a real backpack hunt I would fear the support is a bit iffy.

Frans

Johan,

Because of your small footprint, take a look at Custom made Russel boots http://www.russellmoccasin.com/

Hope this helps,
Roland

For where you are hunting and the time you are going, I would use the Schnee's Hunter II insulated pacs and waterproof the tops with Pitchblend or Obenaufs. Take two extra pair of liners and lots of Ultimax and/or merino wool socks. This is what many of the guides in north-eastern B.C. wear in Sept. on wet days and I have found them to be outstanding.

I have had many boots, Meindls, Raichles, Kastingers, Galibiers, Vasques, Dunham's Tyroleans, Herman Survivors, Pierre Paris and Daytons and have sold/fitted boots for my living. I have yet to see a leather boot that will stay dry in northern Canadian conditions and, yes, I have been there, a lot.

Kneehigh rubber boots will kill your feet in any serious backpacking and the Schnee's will give enough support fot most backpacking, at least mine seem to work in pretty rugged mountain areas and have for 15 years. If, they are too narrow, try one size larger with Superfeet INSIDE your liners; this can be made to work quite well, but is a p.i.t.a.

As to Russell's custom boots, a pair is on my feet as I type and I bought them in 1988 and used them on a trip in the Muskwa area of B.C.; they were then retired to being my dog walking boots, enough said.

kutenay, very good post. Talk to me. Insulated vs unisulated in temps that will not go below 20ish in late September. Also can the insulated Schnee's be worn without the liner comfortably, say with heavy socks to replace the space of the liner? Good for you to confirm the rubber boot problem for serious backpacking. Thanks.

I seriously doutb that you could make up for the extra space by putting on socks instead of the liner. Of course mine are big to being with and I wear thin poplyprop socks and thick hiking socks in them. Wouldn't want more socks on my feet, that would defeat the purpose of removing the liners.

Frans

Frans, just did not know the thickness of the liners so you have helped with my question. Not having a great deal of experience with boot liners, I just had the question in my mind. Also if the liners in general fit within the boot well enough to keep the foot from moving internally inside the liner, etc. With a liner we have introduced a third variable as to comfort/blistering, etc. the boot itself, socks, and now a liner.

I am confused as to why you would want to remove the liners from Schnee's pacs, but, I think that you can do this, put Superfeet into the pacs and then use heavier socks to get a semblance of a fit. The vamps of the pacs are cut for liners, so, this will be a half-assed solution at best.

In temps from +50*F down to 20*F, which is roughly what you will encounter, the HunterII pacs with liners are comfortable and they fit my fairly wide foot quite nicely. I am about 8.5-EE in U.S.A. measurements and take a Euro. 43 with an S-2 last, this from my very nice Scarpa Concordia hikers, about the best fitting factory boots I have yet had.

These fit much like Meindl "Perfekts" from AJBrooks, another factory boot I like. This may give you some fitting ideas as my Schnee's, the older model, are size 9 and fit well over Smartwool Snowboarder socks. I am giving up on factory boots and going to Van Gorkums, fabulous boots from a real gentleman, but, they ain't cheap!

So, I would avoid the uninsulated pacs, I won't wear these after using a number of pair, as your feet sweat in them and then get icy cold at +45*F. I am used to cold and have the physique and metabolism for it and I cannot wear rubber, linerless boots without getting cold feet. I prefer the finest mountaineering boots with gaiters and good waterproofing for most situations and have used them down to -20F many times.

You should e-mail or call your outfitter, I am surprised that he has not sent you a list of gear, including brand names, as this is what the N.W.T. outfitters I contacted did. I cannot really aford to hunt there, but, their recommendations would be the way I would go, if I wanted to bust my ass to get the bucks to do what you are doing.

Schnee Hunter IIs, with Airgrip soles, two spare liners and plenty of socks with kneehigh gaiters from OR is what I would use. Not 'perfect", but, I think about the best compromise in terms of your objectives. Buy them soon to get used to them and "break them in" AND talk to the guys at Schnee's about fitting issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Roland1:
Johan,

Because of your small footprint, take a look at Custom made Russel boots http://www.russellmoccasin.com/

Hope this helps,
Roland

Roland,
Thanks for the advice on russels. Small footprint? Maybe so, my feet’s measures around 29,6 cm or 11,65 inches, no idea what that is in US size. Some brands of boots are a bit small in size

Cheers
/JOHAN

Kutenay, again very good info for this warm weather and warm natured Texan! I had asked about taking out the liner to see if I could use the boot in warmer weather. I am just about convinced, with your knowledge, that the insulated Hunter II in 16" is my best bet. I am a US size 10 1/2 so the 11 should be great. I will for certain talk to those at Schnees about my desires. I am sitting here laughing as I see myself in 95 degree S. Texas July weather and oh 95 % humidity "humping" our 2 degree "mountains"! When summer comes I will try to post a pic of the wrecks I have caused from the Texas motorists gawking as they pass me with my 16" insulated Schnees, loaded Kifaru pack and etc. Do you get a "funny" yet? Seriously, thanks for sharing your experiences with me.

Oh, as to why I have not followed my outfitters suggestions. I do not have them yet! Am making the inquiry but I get the impression they are trying desparately to finish up last years hunts and are just putting together their '06 program - at least for now I am giving them the benefit of the doubt and will for certain confirm with them before sinking the $300 into new boots/liners.

I would avoid the 16" boots unless you are over 6'2" in height; I am short but big and I have the 13", my next pair will be 10" tops plus GOOD gaiters as they are lighter and will tend to "ruck" less. This is the killer with pac boots and I have tossed nearly new Sorels, Kamiks and others when they abraded my Achilles tendon to the point where I was nearly crippled and took weeks to heal.

This is no joke, being air medevaced in Canada is not always possible and an infection in the tendon sheath can cripple you for life. So, get the shorter boots and carry a good supply of 2"x3" plastic Band-Aid heel bandages and USE them to pad your ankle area. Believe me, I damned near lost my right leg when blown off a catwalk in a January storm at 0:300, while on a Can. Coast Guard Lightstation; this was due to infection. I was medevaced in a Messerschmidt chopper in a full gale and it weren't fun!

So, take a bottle of peroxide, one of rubbing alcohol and footpowder and use this stuff to keep your "hooves" clean and dry. Do not "macho" around with this because some guide can do it, I have seen quite a few guys laid up due to a lack of good bush boots and footcare.

Glad to help, the N.W.T. is about the last REAL wilderness outside of Antarctica and a place where a guy can really enjoy wilderness hunting. I am going to go back, after 40 years, next year, but, mostly for backpacking.

Again, a great education for me. Although I am 6'0" and HOPE to be 190lbs come September, I do have a good pair of gaiters that should be just the ticket with the 13" boots. I do have all the foot "repair" items from a previous trip out of the flatlands, although it was mostly horseback and mountains. Also, I tend to "lose" much of my "machismo" when out of my element so my mind is made up that I will do the hunt at MY pace not that of my guide.

Is it not the toughness of your country that has kept it a REAL wilderness. I certainly plan on leaving it at least as pretty as I find it.

I think that you are on the right track and this setup will work for you in the N.W.T. I would make sure that you have the boots "broken in" by wearing them around the house/yard for a couple of hours per day, for a few months.

I think that the major reason for the relatively large amount of wilderness left in Canada, is the truely savage winters and long periods of darkness of our northern regions. The N.W.T. is not, on average, nearly as tough country as B.C. is or as steep/high as the western Yukon, but, the bugs in summer, the mindbending cold in winter, the dark and the isolation have kept settlement low. That's changing with discovery of the fabulous resource wealth of the area and the better quality of life through modern technology, especially communications.

I can remember phoning home to B.C. from Pine Point, NWT, 40 years ago and being just barely able to hear my family, now, you have video phones, satellite uplinks and whatever. It's all going fast, so, see it while you can as the next real boom in Canada will be up there and it will be huge.

Your reflection on the N.W.T/Yukon back forty years reminds me of pulling drinking water from a well at the home of my great grandmother some fifty years ago in what at the time was a fairly young state of Oklahoma. We sometimes want to stand in the way of change but generations have a way of assuring the very changes we felt were going to be wrong.

I don't want to knock a boot but, if you're buying Russell's, don't buy the models w/the glue on soles if you're hunting in the mountains....I've personally seen a couple of pair go belly up on expensive hunts....the soles just came off.....Russell's took care of them promptly after the hunt.....their service is as advertised....when you're remote, good service is a moot point. Just a heads up.

Joe

Frans, I am suprised the pople in Scotland didn't tell you about Wellies. I used these on two hunts with heavy wool socks and never had a problem, unlike my custom Russells last fall in Zim hunting buffalo.

for tough back pack hunting, I use plastics. They are warmer, stiffer, drier, last longer on rocky terrain, etc. THey are not for every one. I find them very comfortable to wear even on flat ground, as long as it is not pavement. Leather is far less stiff, no matter how good a leather boot you get. And after you cross the first creek, the leather is even more limber. The liners for palstics will dry in a tent if they get wet. I swear I think leatehr boots get "wetter" overnight when you go to put them on at +20°F the next morning!!!

I wear Scarpa Invernos. THese fit my body well and are very comfortable to wear. The Invernos work particualrly well for folks with wider feet (a common compalint witth plastics). I have weak ankles and could not pack out 100#+ of gear and dead sheep with leather boots over typical sheep and goat terrain.

quote:

Originally posted by ovis:
I realize that they're not for everyone but I really like my Koflach plastic boots.....I have a pair of Hunters(discontinued) and a pair of Degre.....I dont use the booties that come w/them....most of the time a pair of fleece socks under a pair of Bama socks(low booties) work very well....the fleece socks stay dry all day. If it's colder, I add a pair of Smartwool liners under the fleece socks.....add a pair of Sealskinz socks, in whatever combination you like, and you're waterproof along w/the boots.....the boots are virtually indestructible and can be resoled.

They take a bit of getting used to, but they work well for me.

Joe

Joe, I'm curious why you don't use the booties. Seems like it would take more than a pair of socks (and the bama booties) to fill the space in the boot. My feet sweat something fierce; I can't imagine fleece socks staying dry on my feet.

Do you have problems with heel slip?

Antlers,

The booties were just too hot and I began having cramps in both feet which I thought were caused by the boots in general....I got frustrated and, for what ever reason, tried the BAMA socks over the fleece socks....I use the same combo for my Xtratuf rubber boots. The boots felt loose at first but they weren't and I've never had a blister, or another cramp(go figure), and the fleece socks, are dry at the end of the day but the BAMAS are soaked...my feet sweat like crazy, too. I also use hip or waist stockingfoot waders w/the same sock combo and the Koflach boots for areas w/lots of deeper creek crossings but I leave out the fleece socks and add Smartwool liners....same results. I'll add that the BAMAS dry quickly....they're lightweight so I usually carry two pair on extended trips....the BAMAS were designed for use with all rubber Xtratufs in the fishing industry and damn near everyone else up here.

Like I said in the original post, they're not for everyone, but the plastic boots work for me. In the last couple of years, I've had a couple of serious foot injuries and, without the Koflach boots, I would have had to stopped hunting in all but the lightest terrain....leather boots just don't have the support that I(stressing I)need. I walk a couple of miles 4-5 days a week, this time of year, all in the deep sand and rock on the beaches near my cabin....if it weren't for the boots, I couldn't do it.

Joe

I am a big guy at over 6'8" and 250 pounds. I am super tough on boots and have to use them every day as a part of my job. In the summer they could get 10 miles a day and sometimes every day except Sunday. I have tried a lot of boots from Italian mountaineering boots to all of the popular hiking boot to Danner etc....Other than Scarpa and http://www.scarpa.net and my favorite Wesco http://www.westcoastshoe.com/ boots the other tore apart. I use the Scarpa boots in the winter, and yes they are leather and I have not had a leak on them yet. I work in an area that will go over 70 inches of rain a year and no leaks. The Wesco boots are my summer boots and I have them in two styles [lug sole and spring heel chalks]. They are 10 inch height in the lug and 14 in the chalks. Heavy, yes! Wear like a pair of old friends after you break them in. Four of us packed out 2 deer and a black bear from a wilderness area once and I had no problems, but my Danners the year before came unglued from the stress. They were nearly new. They replaced them and the new ones came apart too. I do not skimp on boots due to my size and my job. They are an essential part of my gear. I got used to the weight of these boots and will never go back for any reason. Wesco has a custom profile of my foot on file and build the perfect 13 ¼ mens in a C width. Scarpa comes in the Euro sizes and you can get a perfect fit easy.

Ovis, thx for the response; I'll give this a try.

Antlers,

I left out one thing.....I also use Ironman insoles by Spenco....they work well and last a long time.

Joe

muygrande-

some info from my experiences--

I have used the 13" insulated Schnees for our CA deer hunting season in July thru Sept in 100* heat with no problems---not hiking 10 miles a day, but at least 2-3 miles with some of it up some pretty steep hills--they've also seen use in Idaho, Montana, Nevada(Ruby Mtns), NWT and Sweden(Dec & Jan)---no problems whatsoever---the 2 pair of 13" were the older ones when you bought the next biggest size--now you buy your own size---

this year I bought the 16" ones, as in Idaho we had to cross some streams and the 13" were just a little to close for comfort last year---so now because of the size changes(you buy your size) and I'm a 9 1/2 I bought size 10's, they don't carry 1/2 sizes---I paid a price with blisters on the heels, balls(feet that is) and rubbing my Achilles tendon--they felt great when I got them and didn't think I'd have a problem as the others were just dynomite right out of the box---we were covering 10-14 miles a day with 2500-3000' elevation changes(some of it straight up and straight down)---lucky for me I had duct tape and moleskin, so I wasn't slowed down to much---now I'm not sure if this was caused by the 1/2 size to big or the 16" height--I'm thinking it was more of the 1/2 size to big, but kutenay's point has me wondering a little---so if you go up a 1/2 size buy one of those pads that you can slip in the boot to keep your foot secure, but still take the bandages, moleskin and duct tape to help out--I bought some pads, but haven't had to use the boots since, but I will and I think I'll be fine and you can bet I'll never be without duct tape, moleskin and bandages!!!--

the gaiters would be a must if not taking some sort of waders---

I would call Schnees and talk to them about their return policy--day you get some and you do your hiking and you feel the 16" heght(if you buy these) don't cut it--can you return them for some in the 13" height---and of course anything else you want to ask them--

Schnees can also resole your boots if and when they need it---chris