Reading through my guides recommended gear for a mountain goat hunt to BC this fall a hiking staff/pole is listed as a "highly recommended" item. He specifically suggests Leika brand. Not being a serious backpacker I'm looking for some advice. Are hiking/treking poles a good idea? Is Leika a good brand? They have several models, any thought on what features I should be looking for in a good pole?

The trekking poles he means are "Leki" and they are excellent. Buy their "Mountain Trek" poles, or, my current favourites are Komperdell "C3 Ultralights"; these are not inexpensive, but, I use mine in the B.C. mountains continuously with totally satisfactory results.

I have a home made one it not all that light but is as tough as hell. Haveing a weaker one break stopping my slide down a slope. I really like a good staff.

I have Komperdells and use them when ever I'm out.....when it's really steep, on the way down, I prefer a single, stout, non-collapsible pole as I have had one of my Komperdells "unlock" at a joint on a downhill. If I'm hunting or scouting, I'm always using one or the other.

Joe

Is there something out there that can be used as a staff as well as a tripod for a spotting scope??

the chef

Don't you mean monopod ?? All you need is a 1/4x20 bolt on the top !....My hiking staff is an old ski pole that the basket came off of. It's well made strong stainless steel tubing with a carbide tip. It's covered with camo tape.

I use a 6 ft hazel wood staff, brought over from the old country, complete dry and very light. Once you get used to schlepping it around it becomes a great tool, a third leg of sorts... of course you sacrifice one hand ;-)

After a bit training I found it tremendous help getting across shale fields, or going up STEEP inclines with vertical rock on one side, rubble underfoot, and instant death down below. The stick helps my balance. Going down it is unfortunately becoming a must have, as it helps take the load of my knees. I've been halfway down a mountain, afraid to take the next steep, for fear of tearing a ligament, they were hurting so much. I just need a good way to attach my gun to the backpack, and I'll never be without the stick again.

Because of it's length I can also use it to stabalize my 10X binoculars. It just becomes an automatic motion to flip the binoculars onto the stick. I get a tremor-free image that way...

Ah, talking about it makes me yearn for the snow to melt off the peaks!

Frans

I used one elk hunting last season really helped,and for stream crossing made life a lot easier and safer..Mine telescopes down to 19in and can go in my pack when not needed

Iread somewhere many years ago what an energy saving it was- something like 20% with one 30% with two I have used a single for 11 years and wouldn't be caught w/o it. Have a knee that has had 3 surgeries and I perfer to use it on the other side. Once you use them you will not go without.

A hiking staff is something that once you use you wouldnt be caught without especially if carrying any kind of weight on your back. I am sure the LL Bean crowd has some real yuppyish hardware but for me its on old ski pole!

No I didn't mean mono-pod. I was wondering if there is anything that combines a staff with a tri-pod--maybe you'd have to add the additional two legs when you are ready to use it that way. I just really don't like carrying a tripod for my spotting scope although I do--it adds weight. Now if we had something that was-staff,tripod for scope and tripod for gun it would be a hit.

the chef

Great input. Any thought on which type of "handle" is the best. Looking online there are several varieties of hand holds.

Make sure the loop is large enough to get your hand with heavy gloves through, also mke sure the tip is carbide. I don't remember the mgf. of mine but I got it on sale at a bike/hiking shop that was going out of business. The price was $60 I think I paid $20!!

Swarovski makes exactly what "Chef" wants, they are heavy, pricey and I wouldn't have one as a gift, but, they are available for those who do desire them.

I was apparently ahead of my time when I made "trekking poles" back in the 70's... just got short ski poles and went down the trail! Heck, I even made a "hydration system" out of tubing with a clamp going into a water bottle in my pack but that's another thread! Many of today's poles are amazing. Some, however, are noisy so buy with care. Me, I use an old bamboo cane like you'd buy at the Pharmacy. Same height as a tall ice axe. Light and tough even if a guy's not eighty.

I've done a lot of martial arts training with the staff. It's not only good for hiking It was the choice of weapons during the middle ages for hand to hand stuff. Much more effective than a sword....but I digress.

the chef

calgarychef1

I've done lots of training with both. In a real fight I'll take a good sword any day. One does not hack hands ect off with a staff. A glancing blow with a staff will hurt a glancing blow with a sword leaves you cut and bleeding maybe missing parts.

The staff was the choice of the poor by law or who could not afford a sword. Now add a spear head and one has something.

If if were the choice of hand to hand why were sword invented a army would have been a lot cheaper to equip with staffs.

Back to hiking staffs mine is made out of a old hickory rake handle with a 3/8th inch steel spike the bottom foot is wired and reinforced with fiber glass. Not light but very tough. I never go on a packing trip with out one.

I am planing a take down alum one that will screw apart into about 2 20" parts and a 3rd one that well bring it to the proper length for me. It well have a 1/4 inch mount on top and the bottom well be machine to fit a cold steel bushmans handle.

p dog shooter;I am damn glad,Brian Boru and my Irish ancestors didnt read this thread before they drove the Vikings out of Ireland armed mostly with blackthorn clubs.w/regards

Brian Boru did NOT drive the Vikings out of Ireland, that is one of the biggest errors in popular Irish history. Boru, who was himself a usurper of the hereditry Celtic kings of Leinster and Munster which were kingdoms in what is now Eire, was KILLED by Vikings at The Battle of Clontarf in 1114 A.D.

The Vikings, the original Celtic/Germanic settlers, the Flemings, Romans, some Anglo-Saxons and the Normans (descendents of the Norse Vikings) gradually interbred to create the modern Irish. Dublin, Limerick and other Irish cities were founded and peopled by Norwegian Vikings and some Danes, as well.

The Vikings ROCK!!!!

Kute, you and I are living proof :grin:

I've done lots of training with both. In a real fight I'll take a good sword any day. One does not hack hands ect off with a staff. A glancing blow with a staff will hurt a glancing blow with a sword leaves you cut and bleeding maybe missing parts.

The staff was the choice of the poor by law or who could not afford a sword. Now add a spear head and one has something.


You must be reading too much info from the net, I've seen those exact words on at least 3 sites. Seems someone must have written them and everyone is repeating them.

I learned from an 80 year old man perhaps it was different training than you had, I dunno. I do know that finding him to train me was a stroke of luck. He also used swords but steadfastly maintained that a staff was better. I've used swords also.

-It takes time to draw a sword from its scabbard. I can strike 3 times in 1 1/2 seconds. Thats from a relaxed state with the staff at my side. Timed-- not estimated or some obscure quote taken from the net. I submit-you'd have a broken left upper arm, broken right ribs and a smashed head slightly after your weapon was drawn. Unless you intend on walking around with your sword drawn. That does change it a little. On the other hand if your weapon was drawn then I'd also start the fight with mine at the ready, therefore I could strike before you could withdraw yours in preparation for striking. That's one of the things about swords they almost always have to be withdrawn ie; moved back before moving forward. It telegraphs your move and intent before the forward swing begins.

With all of the blade in front of the hands it's easier to redirect the blade during it's travel or in a thrust. I'd say though that the sword thrust is the hardest to parry with a staff.

-Don't underestimate the devestation caused by deep contusions and fractures. Striking someone with a staff should be considered a crippling or lethal blow every time. In the case of glancing blows-a weapon held in two hands doesn't glance off as often as a one handed weapon.

- A sword has to be withdrawn before striking. A staff has 2 ends and when held in the middle (not always the case) one end is being withdrawn while the other end strikes. This makes striking faster. It also makes it easier to change directiond during the movement- an easy way to confuse your foe.

The density of steel does cause massive injury but the lightness of wood makes it faster to swing.

The age old saying that a sword can cut through a staff is correct-especially if the staff is used wrong to block and parry. Otherwise it won't cut through.

The staff is much better for blocking. A two handed sword is much better to block with than a one handed one. The Katana comes to mind. A katana takes much of it's moves from "stick fighting" because of the two handed similarities. A katana is probably better than European style swords. The handle acts like a fulcrum increasing the speed of the swing.

I can thrust my staff through 1/4 inch plywood it has great "sectional density" like the 6.5mm bullet therefore it absolutely doesn't need a spear point. I don't want a spear point getting tangled in my enemies clothing or stuck in his body. A spear point can be used against me if I'm not careful. It also makes the weapon more of a thrusting implement simply due to the fact that I don't want the spear end pointed at my body. This greatly limits the techniques I can do. Pikes are another matter but they have a different use.

A staff is generally about 5-6 feet long a sword is 34-40 inches. Therefore the staff has better reach, reach isn't everything. It's greatly overated but it is still a factor.

Why did they use mauls to crush the heads of the fallen wounded on the battle field for "clean up"-because the sword was too slow to kill hundreds of enemy soldiers.

Why did they equip soldiers with sword instead of staffs? You answered your own question - Only the rich could afford swords the rest used staffs. That doesn't make the staff an inferior weapon - it just makes it more available. Like modern times more people carried a staff. You don't see many swords on our streets. You do see a lot of sticks and canes.



the chef

calgarychefq Dream on.

Have you ever used a staff in combat or just played with them in training. Have you ever broken a arm or ribs with one. Have you ever hit some one with one and had them stand there and look at you like nothing has happen. Because they were so high on drugs they were not feeling pain.

I have seen people take full power strikes and stand there. I have seen people take full power japs to the ribs and keep coming sure they went to hospital after wards but they kept on fighting. I saw one man take a full power jap to just below the left eye socket it set him back a step but he came right back into the fight. Until two others jumped on him and took him to the ground.

The only advange you are giving a staff is you do not have to draw it. Whos saids the swordsman is going to wait to draw a sword until you get close enough fore a stirke. If one approachs a arm person and attacks him in surprise most arms well work agaist him.

I am sure in the dojo you both stood in a circle and had the swordsman sword in his scabbard and started. When you get struck, nicked ,jabbed ect by a training blade it doesn't leave you bleeding, lungs with holes in them, missing fingers ect. bleeding all over you nice staff and floor. How many times have you felt the sting of the training blade. For each one of them you just were severly cut ect in real life.

You parry a stike with your staff and the blade slides down your staff and contacts your hand oh what happens to your hand. Or the swordsman targets your fingers,hands and arms first.

No you can have your wooden sticks I'll take cold steel any day given the choice.

Personally a prefer a good fire arm. I can and do carry all the time.

Yes your right staffs cane are more accepted for carrying out in the open..

Like I said a hiking staff is a very good weapon. You wanna go hiking with your sword, go right ahead. You gonna look a little silly using it to try and balance yourself on the side of a mountain.

cheers

the chef

No I go hiking with my staff and one of my many hand guns.
A staff is a fair weapon there are many better ones out there.

This is off topic maybe we should farther it in PM's

Out in the Texas Big Bend there is a cactus called the ‘sotol’. When it blooms the stalk of the flower is this hollow fibrous stalk material, similar to bamboo but not hollow like bamboo- solid all the way through. It is very light and unbelievably strong. The stalks are the preferred hiking staff in the desert. There is a cottage industry harvesting the stalks and sanding them down, carving & wood burning designs into them. They are a popular item sold at the local gift shops in the area.

Many years ago I took my wife out there hiking and we were hiking in a canyon that had a bunch of sotols that had just finished blooming. I cut a stalk and cut it to length (even with the top of her shoulder). After we got back from the trip I sanded it down, put a few coats of clear finish on it, and wrapped the grip with nylon string. It’s her favorite hiking staff.



But a few years ago she went to a mountain spa in Mexico that has hiking and couldn’t take her sotol staff on the plane so she bought a ‘Tracks’ by Cascade Design. It’s a nice fold up staff, light weight, but not tall enough.
Your staff should be at least even with the top of your shoulder so when you’re walking down a trail and you have to step down- when you set the staff down to the next lower level it’s still tall enough that you don’t have to stoop too low.

No we shouldn't further it in pm's. I come here to give and get advice I have an opinion and you have a different one. Should we get into a private argument over it-nope. I'm not into pissing contests, we see too much of that shit in here.

the chef

Ok.

And then theres the old "Lee Enfield" alternative:

A SMLE with the original butt plate and a cut down stock can be a staff, ice axe (butt to cut steps, self arrest with muzzle), personal defence (10 shots plus one hell of an effective club)and ofcourse its shot more deer than you can poke a stick at.

My dad was a "professional hunter" here in the halycon days just before WWII, (one winter he and a mate shot 1200 skins between them, and that wasn't considered a big tally) and they used their SMLEs as detailed. Not really recommended with any rifle let alone todays fancy stuff . . .

Anyhow a point to consider is noise, I've never seen a quiet metal stick yet, and where hikers are common (almost said "game") you can here them for miles clicking along, and if it gets dropped, everything for miles arround will hear it. A wooden stick of something local and tough is best IMO, and if it gets left behind in a hot chase or broken its not $$ down the tubes.

Cheers

I use a staff all the time, beating around in the swamps of eastern Virginia and North Carolina. I'm always out by myself, and when carrying a pack, wading in water over hip deep, a staff will let you feel in front of you for snags, and keep you on your feet. Also great for beating the bushes for snakes, as when you're coming out of deep water, onto land. At that point, your face is at snake height, from the snakes perspective. If you are moving through soft mud, just push it down into the mud about 6 to 8 inches, like a miniature piling, and lean on it....a tripod is much more stable than a bipod. Also insurance that you don't step into someones 330 conibear.

Mine is a waxwood staff I got from Cold Steel. Much stronger and more resilient than hickory, It works even better if you put a nylon strap on top of it, fastened with a 2-1/2 inch woodscrew over a screw grommet, glued with epoxy, then several courses of tarred nylon net twine repeatedly tied with several constrictor knots.

When you put a lot of pressure on it (leaning on it when your feet are stuck)your hand doesn't slip down the shaft.

In loose rock in the mountains, like some others related, a good staff is hard to beat.
I have used ski poles, and they work great on hard ground, but are useless in a swamp.Also, most are fragile, compared to a good staff, and they cost much more. In cold conditions, wood is easier on your hands than aluminum. You can hold the wooden staff anywhere, but aluminum poles need insulated handles, or you're touching cold metal.

As far as an improvised weapon, if forced to, I would use mine just like a rifle with a bayonet. Besides, unless totally surprised, I would use something better for the job than a staff, or a sword..... like a 45 ACP. You can carry your staff almost anywhere, without raising any eyebrows.......try going into a store or other public area with a sword, and notice the reception you get.

Best regards, Jim

quote:

Originally posted by calgarychef1:
Is there something out there that can be used as a staff as well as a tripod for a spotting scope??

the chef

CC, Take a look at www.trek-tech.com and their "Shot Pod". May be just what you are looking for. Good hunting, EB

I have a cedar pole that I selected for it's length, diameter in regards to weight and strength, and used a palm sander and dremel to shape the handle. I've also notched it along a knot line so I can use it to steady my rifle on. Cedar is actually a juniper bush but it's been allowed to invade a grow without natural fire control so now we call them cedar trees, but the wood is extremely rot resistant and is very flexible without breaking. After stripping the bark and sanding I placed each end in a small can of polyurathane, letting it soak for a day or so, which made the wood much harder and resistant to splitting for the first three inches. If you have a small hand saw with a woodcut blade, sandpaper and your choice of finish you could find a cedar tree and cut off a branch to make your own according to what you need it to do. It's simple and a satisfying little project if you've got the time.

I hunt elk on north face steep and dark areas and as such have to pack elk out on my back. The best system I've found is two of those three piece "treking" poles. The good ones don't "click" much if at all.

I use one for balance while hunting and carry the other one folded up on my pack. When making my initial pack out I strap the rifle on the pack and use both poles for safety, 75 lbs. or more on the pack can be dangerous if you slip.
Though the eastern part of Montana is more flat and open I still find the sticks useful for packing out deer. I'm very concious of falling and breaking a leg since I hunt alone most of the time. When I first started guiding the old guy I worked for told me, " It ain't the bears that'll kill ya, it's a broken ankle."

I've also used them as a bi-pod for shooting, just marmots so far. I wrap the wrist straps over each other, looks a bit like the sticks the black powder guys use. This also works for holding a spotting scope or even binocular for extended glassing.

Has anyone used a Stoney Point Polecat? I've bought one that I was planning on taking to Alaska this fall. It has the rubber "V" on the top and three telescoping sections. Seems pretty sturdy to me, but I'm not going to a really mountainous area.

Redlander, I am going to NZ next week and I am taking my Polecat. Mine is the bi-pod with the tri-pod attachment. My thoughts are to use one leg for a staff and quickly attach the other leg with the third already attached when setting up for shooting if time allows. At this time it is just in the planning stages will let you know in a few weeks how it worked or didn't work. I think I can atttach the Y to the use pole and quickly screw on the off pole when necessary.

I hate to fart in church, but I read all about staffs for hiking and backpack hunting when I was planning my Dall Sheep hunt in the MacKenzie Mountains of the NWTs in 2004. I read to the point I couldn't NOT take one. I bought a telescoping metal staff.

It was a total waste of time, money and energy. I tried it numerous times the first few days on the hunt. It was a total nuisance. My Petzl head lantern was handier, and I was hunting in 24-hour daylight. At least the lantern is handy even around the house. The walking stick is still worthless.

I was 57 years old with bad knees, and the staff was nothing but a pain in the ass to fool with. I have good balance. I'm sure-footed. After the first three days, I found it was just slowing me down and distracting me. I left it at the next air strip we landed on, and enjoyed the last seven days of the hunt immensely.

The backpack hunt which was my first experience hunting that way, was absolutely great, probably my most memorable hunt in a 45 year career. A hiking staff for hunting just isn't my style. (Maybe I'll try them again when I'm 97.)

Kensco,

I hate to admit this, but you are braver than I. I'm glad I'm not the only one who can't figure out the hiking staff. I kept wondering why I never needed one or wanted one in the lower 48 rockies. And that includes sheep hunting.

I've used one for years while cruising around in the woods (makes a nice plot marker when actually doing timber inventories) and have found them helpful. I've never had the need while hunting here in Texas, but I wanted something to help negotiate the tundra and for a support in case I felt the need to take a longish shot. Thus the Polecat.

One downside to it was that it kept my hand full.

We touched down on the first puddle of water and a sow grizzly and cub burst out of the reeds. That got my attention. After the float-plane took off it was me, the dog and an unarmed guide on the ground. In addition to not getting any value from the staff it was in my way in case of another grizzly encounter. I had my rifle on my right shoulder or at port-arms depending how dense the brush was around us. We crossed other grizzly tracks the second day. I didn't want to get caught with my hand full, or a five-foot stick dangling from my wrist if we got jumped.

It didn't carry on the pack very well either, even when telescoped in. It will stay in my daughter's closet for the remainder of its natural life.

In regards to the pole cat they are nice to shoot off of, but don't stand up to being used as a walking stick. I used one last fall hiking into a canyon, by the time I reached the bottom the tips were gone and it would no longer extend.
I did get a Black Diamond set of walking sticks back a couple of months ago just after starting this topic. I used them on a half dozen hikes and never could see much benefit. They were a little useful in "pulling" myself up a hill. I found they were useless going downhill which was supposed to be the big advantage to a walking stick. If you are on a trail they are okay but if in brush they are a signicant hinderance as they are always getting hung up and messing up my stride.
I could see an advantage is going over a talus slope or similar terrain.
I don't think I will be taking mine on my goat hunt this fall. I was good to hear that others have the same feeling.