Been told I ought carry a handgun to ward off critters when hiking the mountains. Which of these would be best?

Depends what mountains Northern and Canadian Rockies I would prefer something bigger. AK mountains something bigger.

Southern Rockies or Appalachian 40 or 45 should be ok. If your worried more about two legged critters they well work fine. They well work on most 4 legged ones also.

If I was worried about the largest black bears I would carry a 357 41 44 mag or a heavy loaded 45 colt.

But there are some hard cast loads for the 45 that gives one more confidence in that. I load a 250swc at 875 that works well.

For the larger 4 legged critters I would like a minimum of 20 inches of penetration.

Most JHPs well not do that for you they are made for self defense against human attackers. giving between 10 and 14 inches. That well work for humans, small bears and canines{dogs coyotes, wolve types.)

I do carry a 40s@w a lot I know that if I have to use it on a large bear its head shots and a lot of them.

I would prefer my 41 or 44 with a good hard cast for bears I know that both well drive those bullets through a lot of bear.(been there done that)

But with the 40 or 45 if that all you have buy the best ammo you can afford, carry it. Be ready to shoot more then once.

If you don't live in area where big bears are present and want to stay with a semi auto get a Glock 10mm

Both of the above answers are excellent advice. Pick what you shoot best and don't look back!

Of the two you named I prefer the 45 ACP, in a 1911.

While I have carried it in Black bear and Griz bear country, I usually carry a 4" 44 Mag there.

I usually tote my 45 1911, have in the past carried a 45 Colt.I shoot bith frequently and am confident in my accuracy. Rethinking my strategy along the lines of Bear Spray. Read quite a bit about the effectiveness and am just getting into an interesting read in the RMEF magazine on it. Not looking to start a flame on the OP's question, just some additional food for thought.

If you will carry the pistol all the day ,think about weigth .Ihave many many pistols but all my proffesional life as a soldier instructor or PH i carried a glock 22 40sw .When you have to work you need a reliable ligth pistol .

Thanks guys. Ordered a 40S&W. My wife will learn to use it too. (Cannot use bear spray if she is with me due to her sever asthma.)

Someone posed this question a few years ago here.

One member suggested a Ruger 380. The deal was, if your party comes upon a bear, and it attacks, just kneecap your guide or someone you dislike and run like hell.

Obviously, this will not work if it is just you and your wife.

Use fmjs to reach the vital of a big predator .

I don't think there's much advantage between either mentioned. The 10mm is good, and a .45 can wear a .460 Rowland barrel easily.

Here's the thing. You have to draw the gun, fire it accurately, and more often than not, repeatedly. I'm slow to shoot a cylinder full of full house loads from a big revolver. Big revolvers are heavier. The holster you choose needs to be accessible regardless of what else you are wearing, including a pack.

I think if you give it some thought and practice you can do well with a .40 given access & accuracy. Look at Mag Tech and Buffalo Bore for heavy loads.

Two legged vermin die easy. Pick ammo based on the four legged variety.

Glock 10mm auto in one hand and a can of bear spray in the other. Research shows that the spray is more effective - from studies of instances where either a firearm was used or the spray in places including Alaska. The spray was more effective by a large percentage.

quote:

Originally posted by willieb:
Thanks guys. Ordered a 40S&W. My wife will learn to use it too. (Cannot use bear spray if she is with me due to her sever asthma.)

PRW - Spray is effective. Not arguing the point. Like anything deployment in a timely fashion is important. However some will likely not survive the spray any easier than the bear.

I know 2 people that have used pepper spray on brown bears,,both used the spray because the bears got way too close (not a charge) and reported that the spray was not very confidence inspiring at best. In both instances the bears moved off a bit and after a short time resumed fishing, not a huge deterrent or run out of the country type thing. I would use a firearm if seriously saving a life was a critera!!

The 40 can be a hell of a round very close to a 10mm if you have a long barrel . I am getting G35 and a thread barrel which gives me 6 inch's of barrel I should be getting a 180 grain bullet going between 1200-1250 fps. I also have no problem with the G35 same size as a 1911 which I have carried for years.

quote:

Originally posted by kev5000:
The 40 can be a hell of a round very close to a 10mm if you have a long barrel . I am getting G35 and a thread barrel which gives me 6 inch's of barrel I should be getting a 180 grain bullet going between 1200-1250 fps. I also have no problem with the G35 same size as a 1911 which I have carried for years.

I think you are very wishful in your thinking getting over 1200 out of a 6 inch barrel 40 S@W

Please post your chrono results when you get the gun and shoot it.

quote:

Originally posted by kev5000:
The 40 can be a hell of a round very close to a 10mm if you have a long barrel . I am getting G35 and a thread barrel which gives me 6 inch's of barrel I should be getting a 180 grain bullet going between 1200-1250 fps. I also have no problem with the G35 same size as a 1911 which I have carried for years.

I have the G35. I have to agree with the disappointing velocity with the longer barrel, at least in my gun. Some increase but nothing like the 25 fps per inch I was hoping for. I would still pick the 200 grain hard cast bullets, at nearly the same sectional density as 255 grain .45 Colt.

quote:

p dog shooter
one of us
posted 09 September 2013 20:18 Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by kev5000:
The 40 can be a hell of a round very close to a 10mm if you have a long barrel . I am getting G35 and a thread barrel which gives me 6 inch's of barrel I should be getting a 180 grain bullet going between 1200-1250 fps. I also have no problem with the G35 same size as a 1911 which I have carried for years.


I think you are very wishful in your thinking getting over 1200 out of a 6 inch barrel 40 S@W

Please post your chrono results when you get the gun and shoot it.

P dog, you have not loaded for a 6'' 40 have you?

You can get 1225fps easy with book loads and much more when you seat boolits out,
I do this with Glock all the time.

Bear protection handguns are over thought. Having been in situations with bear charges or close encounters I will tell you this.

The perfect, I repeat, perfect bear handgun is the one you have in your hand when the bear is there....not the one at home or at the store you didn't buy. Whatever your holding onto at that time is perfect!! Confidence in a crappy situation will save you more than kinetic energy will.

I carry a 10mm colt 1911. Is it the biggest? No. The baddest? No. Is it going to out penetrate all others? No. Do I need it to? No.

All I need from a bear defense handgun is to turn a bear from the charge, away from me. Ultimate goal is for me to go unharmed. My goal is not to drop the bear with one shot like a hero. I just need to come out ok. At the same time i want multiple shots from a gun I can operate well with one hand and recover quickly from recoil, but also that can kill a bear via central nervous system.

Pissed off bears shot in the heart or lungs still have more than enough time to tear you a new one. Brain and spine or all I need a gun big enough
To disrupt.

Different thought processes for different people though.

quote:

You can get 1225fps easy with book loads and much more when you seat boolits out,I do this with Glock all the time.

Have you actual ran your loads over a crony
please post the results

If I was concerned about being et by big preditors like Alaskan Brown or Grizzleys I would be packing a big rifle or at least a 44 mag. revolver..I would never trust a 40 or 45 ACP on big bear...

Other than bear country I probably wouldn't see any need for a pistol at all..I have no fear of Mt. Lions, Bobcats,coyotes and not much for wolves..but a 44 mag or 45 colt would still be your best pistol. A light rifle is always the better choice..I like a 30-30 or 25-35 Win. light, short, handy, powerful, and up close they out perform any pistol IMO.

All that so so advise is fine, but in reality I would be packing my 22. S&W 4 inch to protect myself agains agressive grouse and snowshoes, and you can eat them too.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

You can get 1225fps easy with book loads and much more when you seat boolits out,I do this with Glock all the time.

Have you actual ran your loads over a crony
please post the results

Sorry for the late reply, I don't get on here much and am new at this.

Yes, I crony almost everything.

These were shot in a g20 with a six inch LW conversion barrel and a four
inch LW barrel.
With 800X or Longshot powder 1250fps is easy and accurate with a cast 183gr
boolit, even a 4'' barrel gets 1160+ fps, 8gr Longshot is Hodgdons max.

When you seat the boolits out to max oal for the magazine you will get to 1300fps
with .5gr more powder.

I don't use the 10mm barrels much because in the g20 with cheap 40s&w brass and the
six inch conversion barrel you can beat most 10mm loads.

My brother-in-law used to take his young sons with him overnight fly fishing in the back country. He saw one two many bears, and beat me out of my S&W 329.

Now, of course, we have 1600 wolves they tell us.

I would be very happy with a 40 or 45 when it comes to wolves.

My perspective is from a Houndsmans point of view.

I bought a Super Redhawk in 44 with a 7,5"tube as my carry weapon for bushpig and cats.

In the end that gun got left at home because it just plain got in the way. I was happier just carrying a lightweight rifle on a sling.
Then I started carrying my Glock 23 in 40 S&W and have never looked back. It kills pigs just as well and is much easier to bring to bear and fire repeatedly. I have all the confidence in the world.

Now the 44 is a hell of a gun, but not in that package for what I was doing. That said, I bought the SRH in 44 because there are so many happy people who use them. They just did not suit my needs.

I will be buying a Desert Eagle in 44 to try it one day, but am very happy with my 40 for daily carry.
The rail on the bottom is great and I carry my gun every waking hour of every day and sleep with it under my pillow. A better defense option would have big shoes to fill, especially in a country where being a white person living on a farm makes me the most hunted prey in the country.

quote:

Originally posted by Hunting the Box H:
My perspective is from a Houndsmans point of view.

I bought a Super Redhawk in 44 with a 7,5"tube as my carry weapon for bushpig and cats.

In the end that gun got left at home because it just plain got in the way. I was happier just carrying a lightweight rifle on a sling.
Then I started carrying my Glock 23 in 40 S&W and have never looked back. It kills pigs just as well and is much easier to bring to bear and fire repeatedly. I have all the confidence in the world.

Now the 44 is a hell of a gun, but not in that package for what I was doing. That said, I bought the SRH in 44 because there are so many happy people who use them. They just did not suit my needs.

I will be buying a Desert Eagle in 44 to try it one day, but am very happy with my 40 for daily carry.
The rail on the bottom is great and I carry my gun every waking hour of every day and sleep with it under my pillow. A better defense option would have big shoes to fill, especially in a country where being a white person living on a farm makes me the most hunted prey in the country.

If you think that Super Redhawk was big and got in the way, the desert Eagle will be even worse! Your Glock is a great option and if you wanted a little more "horsepower" the Glock 10mm might be just the ticket. The Smith & Wesson 4 inch 329 airweight .44mag is also a great option if it is carried a lot and shot very little. The lightweight frame can recoil pretty fiercely and is not much fun as a daily shooter.

Another vote for .460 Rowland. It is designed for this purpose. You can practice with .45 ACP barrel in the same gun.

Near .44 mag performance with high capacity, reasonable recoil allowing one hand shooting (in emergency or injured) in reliable and not overweighted gun.

Many good loads available in USA. In my country, I have to reload (no factory ammo here). 250gr coated hard cast bullets (.451 sized) will do the job. Shoots well for me also Sierra 185gr JHP, 200gr FPJ, Hornady 230gr XTP, 230gr FMJ FN etc.

Jiri

Given the choice, I would go with the 40 S&W. I own Glock 22 for many years, so I know what it is capable of, particulary with the 180 gr FMJ flat point bullet.
The magazine capacity is also important factor and I am confirmed that shots towards bear's head would do the job anyway.

CNS shots are the only way to stop a large bear with a handgun. Bear experts claim that a 180 gr. load from a 357 will adequately penetrate the skull of a brown bear. IMHO the rapid fire and magazine capacity of a 10mm Glock would make it a superior defense handgun.
In a solid bullet loading it would also be good for harvesting edible small game. I've shot quite a few rabbits for the pot with a 357 and a 45 acp and with semi-wadcutters or round nose slugs they don't tear up as much edible meat as a 22 hollow point.
edited to correct typos.

Then there is the .45 Super.

quote:

45 Super is externally/dimensionally identical to 45 acp or 45 acp+P and is designed to be used in 45 acp semi auto pistols that have been fitted with stronger than normal recoil springs and a shock buffer, plus a couple other modifications. While you can shoot 45 SUPER out of some stock 45 acp+P pistols such as the Glock 21, HK USP or the full sized all steel 1911, you will batter your pistol if you do not have them modified to handle the extra pressure and slide velocity of the 45 Super.

The below velocities were fired from my Colt Gold Cup Govt. Model (5 inch) that was converted by Garey.

1. Item # 45S185-----------1330 fps (185gr. Jhp)
2. Item # 45S200-----------1235 fps (200gr. Jhp)
3. Item # 45S230-----------1131 fps (230gr. Jhp)
4. Item # 45S230FMJ----1133 fps (230gr. FMJ-FLAT NOSE)
5. Item # 45S255-----------1090 fps (HARD CAST-FLAT NOSE)

A handgun by its very nature is a compromise. A rifle is exponentially more effective, but we choose a handgun due to weight and handiness while performing camp chores, being in the tent, and so forth. Decide your application, then move towards the best solution, if just for peace of mind and as a last resort those will be better than nothing. Decide as others have alluded to what your primary threat is, here for us it's grizzly / brown bears. The humans don't register on the risk index as they're so rare and they are welcomed guests when encountered.

If your threat is more than 50% human, go .40 0r .45, and the lightest gun you can find (Glocks are good). If the place is wilder and big bears the concern, forget autos and get a real bear gun, a .44 Mag or up revolver. I've had both .44 Mag S&Ws and a .475 Linebaugh Freedom Arms, I've settled on the lightest S&W .44 I can reliably shoot fast, the Model 69. Handguns are more about packing than using, and bear spray is lighter and more effective than them anyhow on bears. So make it light. That's why the Linebaugh got the boot, far too heavy, I'd rather put its weight towards a Kimber Adirondack in .308, as it's 2/3rds of the way there in weight and exponentially less effective than even the humble .308 when all is considered.

Moral? Yep on 9mm / .40 / .45 for casual carry and piece of mind, as a work tool, no. Spray and a rifle will serve you best if bears are the worry (and a heavy emphasis on the spray), if you can't pack a rifle pack a light .44 Mag. My application is guiding coastal grizzly (browns) just south of the Alaska border in British Columbia, and flying helis the rest of the year outside hunting season. Your applications may be different and more human oriented so my thoughts may not apply, as I can't comment on the human issues with much credibility as we don't have them thankfully.

Neither of those are bear cartridges. A .44mag would be my minimum in a handgun. A rifle or shotgun would be better.

Brett