Anyone carry one of these in their backpack?

I have been trying to decide how to solve the question on whether I should use one of the disposable mylar style, which have the advantage of light weight and compactness. They just don't seem to be very durable.

The other extreme seems to be the tarp style with reflective coating on one side. This is quite a bit bulkier, and takes up much more room in the pack.

Is the reflective coating a neccessity? Or is it just a nice thing to have? How much more heat do you get from the reflective coatings compared to uncoated?

I don't have much real experience with this stuff, it's only the last few years that I've started to make hunting trips in the West again.

I've carried one of these tarps in my hunting pack for years, with the only real possibility of using it being if I got hurt and couldn't get back to my truck, or got trapped out in the woods by really bad weather.

So far, I've not had the need to use one, and I'm curious about what really works, and what brand/models do you recommend?

Mark

I use an emergency "bag", can't remember the name of it, but it is very light (just like the silver blankets) and will keep you dry even in the rain. I don't think you will be "warm" but that's not the intent, it should keep you from hypothermia!

The SPACE brand blankets -- and your bag, trap -- will indeed keep you warm. That's the whole purpose of them -- to help one retain body heat. Even the light weight model will keep in up to 80% of your radiated body heat.

There are several different ones from the smallish, thin cheapie to the heavier laminated models. View and read about them at MPI Outdoors. -TONY

Mark,

Thought you might enjoy reading a column I wrote in 1990 after using one of the el cheapo Space blankets to get through a March night in the Mazatzal Mts. of AZ a few years earlier -TONY

ONE-DOG NIGHT


Thirty years have passed since my first venture into Arizona's great outdoors. During that time I've had both some good and bad experiences. Thankfully, most have been of the former variety.

One experience I never had was getting lost. Oh, I had times when I was slightly "turned around," but none where I had absolutely no clue as to my location. Consequently, I've never spent a night away from my main camp unless it was intentional -- with at least a basic supply of necessities. Like most of us probably do, though, I frequently wondered how I'd handle it.

My late grandfather indoctrinated me early about the perils of being unprepared if it becomes necessary to spend the night away from camp. So I committed myself to carrying matches, an extra candy bar or two and water in areas where it is scarce. Under the right circumstances a person can live many days without food or water other than in the hot desert. So the candy and water were simply feel-good conveniences. But the matches seemed the most important to me.

We often read stories about people getting lost and dying. These accounts continually upset me, especially when the victim had spent only a night or two in the woods. I always wondered how someone becomes a casualty in such a short time. Yet it happens too many times every year.

Most folks who get lost die of hypothermia, the medical name for exposure. Characterized by a rapid lowering of one's body temperature and uncontrollable shivering, it soon causes disorientation and a loss of energy. Death is the final consequence. Hypothermia frequently follows panic, a common occurrence when a person becomes lost. Of course, it's very disheartening because the tragedy can be avoided if a person keeps his head on straight.

About five years ago on a lion hunt with Joe Mitchell in the Mazatzal Wilderness Area near Rye, I finally found out what's it like to spend a night in the wilderness alone without any food, water or equipment.

Luckily, I knew where I was all the time. But my camera, a .357 handgun, a lighter, a candy bar, a light rain jacket and one of those small, silver, reflective Space blankets made up my meager supplies. About the only panic I had came with the realization of having only three cigarettes. I knew I had to ration them to make it through the night and part of the next morning.

Mitchell and I had cut a hot track early that morning and stayed on it for six hours. Eventually, that track crossed another set. The dogs, confused by the second track, split into two groups. So I trailed one bunch, while the guide followed the other. At sunset, my group of dogs was nowhere to be seen. I dropped off the ridge into the canyon where Mitchell had been about an hour earlier. He was gone, too.

Realizing it was at least a five-hour, mostly uphill walk to camp and thinking I could make it before midnight, I stumbled through the darkness along the meandering trail. It was a bad decision.

I lost the trail three different times when it crossed the stream bed, got smacked in the face by an unseen branch and had more than one prickly pear cactus deposit its spines in my shins. I decided hiking in the dark without any moonlight was not my thing.

Thoughts flowed readily, but panic was not one of them. Instead, everything I had read or been taught about this kind of situation came to mind.

I began looking for a somewhat protected place on the trail with enough nearby firewood to get me through the night. Such a place existed only a few yards up the trail. A downed tree, though rotten and and a bit damp, offered plenty of firewood, and the flame from my cigarette lighter revealed enough dry kindling nearby to sustain the wet wood. After building a fire ring out of rocks on some level ground, I gathered enough small wood to get a blaze started, broke the rotten log into smaller pieces and stacked them outside the fire ring. As the pieces dried from the heat of the fire, I would have a continuous supply of larger chunks to burn.

The warmth from the flames quickly countered the chill from the March evening. Hungry and weary from hiking around the up-&-down wilderness all day, I ate half of my candy bar and saved the rest for breakfast. I then cleared a "bed" next to the fire within easy reach of the drying wood. With my rolled up daypack tucked beneath my head and the Space blanket covering my torso, I snuggled up beside the now blazing fire.

A few minutes later, a noise that sounded like something walking through dry leaves came from the blackness. Just as I reached for my handgun, one of Mitchell 's hounds wandered into the light of the fire, and I let out a sigh of relief.

"Here, Jake," I called.

The hound moved warily toward me, then stopped ten feet away and laid down on a bed of fallen leaves.

"Suit yourself," I said, thinking it was nice to have company anyway.

I tried sleeping again but worried about Joe and what he would think. No doubt he might imagine the worst. Just then, the sound of rustling leaves made me look over my shoulder.

Jake, with head lowered, cautiously crept to where I lay, circled once and then lowered himself to the ground and pushed up against my back. Providing a bit of body heat for each other, my canine buddy and I went to sleep.

Over the next 11 or 12 hours, I woke often to rekindle the flames with a fresh supply of wood from the dead tree. And each time I lay back down, Jake wiggled his body closer to mine until he finally managed to get under the blanket, as well.

The next morning, after a five-hour, uphill hike, Jake and I reached the main road. I immediately heard the whine of an ATV. As the three-wheeler came around a bend, the driver spotted me and stopped.

"Are you Tony?" he asked.

"Yes."

He then told me he was Mitchell’s dad and had arrived the previous night."Joe called me and said you might be lost. He drove down to Rye this morning because he thought you might come out that way. Did you have a bad night?

"Well, I could use a cigarette and a sandwich. But other than that, I'm fine. I spent the night with a warm fire in front of me and a warm dog behind me."

The man smiled. "Oh, you had a one-dog night, huh?"

Thanks for the replies.
Tony, that was an entertaining story. And thanks for the link to MPI. I've seen their products before, just didn't have the website.

So, would you say that one of the MPI Space Blankets would be more to your liking than the All Weather Blanket? There is quite a difference in weight; 2oz. for the Space blanket and 12oz for the All weather.

Mark,

I have both actually. Although I occasionally carry the heavy one in my larger backpack when I KNOW the temps will be cold at night, it stays in my truck for the most part. I also have a heavy one in my boat because it could come in extremely handy if someone falls overboard -- even in AZ!

But I always have one of the small ones with me in the field, even when I'm fishing and especially when wading streams and rivers. It fits easily into a game or fishing vest pocket.

Here's an amusing tale about the one I had on the lion hunt. My wife had bought it for me as a stocking stuffer the Xmas before the trip. I chuckled a bit when I saw it and asked, "What I'm supposed to do with this?"

When I was packing stuff in my daypack to get ready for the hunt, she asked if I wanted the blanket just in case.

I rolled my eyes, and said, "Sure. Why not."

Now you know the rest of the story. -TONY

To me the Mylar backed tarps are not worth their weight. Literally. I always have two of the pre-packaged space blankets in any of my packs at any time. I've never had to use one but know those who have and they were elated by their performance. Space blankets are best used as a heat reflector if you really need one rather than something to wrap around your self. But I wouldn't hesitate to wrap one around myself if I did not have any other heat source.

Mark,
I have one of the older and heavier style space blankets. I find that it works pretty well with some qualifiers on that statement. Mine also will hold at least 80% of my body heat, but remember to weat a stocking cap to keep the heat from leaving through your noggin. I have found that it also retains XXX% body moisture as well. Plan to be clammy when you roll out in the morning. I have used mine on goat and sheep hunts in the fall and summer excursions in the hight country. I also have a forest service shake and bake for emergency situations. It about the size of package of Twinkies, but it would never stuff back into the package once opened.

I always get a giggle out of "stocking caps" they're toques!!!!

Thanks for the giggle

the chef

I have one of the older heavier quilted types of blankets. Carry it with me in my pack when ever I’m hunting. I’m not really sure how much insulating value they have. But I’ll say that it really helps break any wind there may be and they will keep you dry. It’s helped me through what would have been a cold wet night.

Gary,

I did a Google search to try and find some info on the test you mentioned but can't find anything. I'd like to read the info and perhaps weave it into an article. Can you provide a cite where I can find the test results?

Also, since the Space blanket is recommended to help prevent shock, I wonder how the test results will affect the FDA Medical Device No. 1220702 rating. -TONY

Hello;
Sorry Gary, Tyvek has no insulating qualities. It is simply a vapor and wind barrier.
Grizz

Where can you get those big plastic bags?

Thanks, gary. If you can eventually find the articles or actual study, I'd appreciate it. -TONY

I've got one of those orange bags in my pack and a piece of wet suit material to sit on. Got the bag at a local sportsman show from Peter Kummerfelt, a former USAF Survival Instructor. He does shows all over and sells the gear too. Just Google his name and you should get something

Here is the link to Peter Kummerfelt's website, OutdoorSafe.

m.s.;

i.m.h.o. while the mylar space blankets take up almost 0 space and weigh almost 0, they are worth about the same, 0.

the m.p.i. heavier space blankets can be used as a lean to/wind break, grommets tied together to make a sleeping bag, are windproof and waterproof, hypothermia blanket for the injured, can be used to keep your meat clean during gutting and loading your pack and as a singaling device for s.a.r. aircraft (orange or red side up out in the open).

they are well worth the space and weight and i take one with me everywhere i go.

This is what many hunters use in Norway, as a survival tool, but mostly for hunting and hiking because its so wery comfortable to use even during a short stop.
This product is also standard in our F-16s as a survival tool for the pilots if they have to bail out and end up a long way from the nearest populated areas.
Jerven for hunting and survival

F.W.I.W. I happened to talk to a rep from the red cross about those "space blankets" bout a week ago,,he said they're not worth a damn wrapped tightly around ones body,,apparently they're intended for making a small tent around ones self,and,lighting an emergency candle,,and if done properly,will sustain temps of 60-70 deg.F.,,That's what I was told,,Not what I know from personal experience,,Clay

i think the main benefit here is not retention of body heat but keeping the snow, rain and wind off you till rescue.

The single shot mylar jobs are okay in a pinch as long as they are not too old or if it is not too cold (not sure which). I opened one to supplement my bag halfway through a very cold (-20f) night and it came all to pieces. The inside of my tent looked like I'd been opening presents. The sturdier reusable unit with grommets always has a place in my daypack. It serves as a groundcloth, blanket, a small shelter, and to keep the venison from dripping all over the car.

Thanks Gary. Any info is appreciated.

Gary,

First off, it was nice meeting you in the press room at SHOT.

Now...

I got a bit of a chuckle tonight while I was watching the winter olympics. One of the ski jumpers had a nasty crash and had to be tended to by the emergency medical staff.

Guess the first thing they did?

Clue: They didn't wrap him in an orange trash bag. -TONY

Well, after being gone on vacation for a week, I see this thread has had some activity.

cold zero, what you had to say is pretty much what my gut feel has been on these. I liked the idea of having something available as a shelter, so I didn't have to try making a debris shelter or such in the dark.

I was really hoping someone would have an alternative that was as light as the space blanket and heavy duty like the tarp.
Mark

quote:

I was really hoping someone would have an alternative that was as light as the space blanket and heavy duty like the tarp

Tube tent?

Hello;
I don't know about this plastic bag idea. The coldest I have ever been is dressed in warm clothes, with my evaporating body moisture trapped around me. I usually go layered and dressed for the occasion, so I don't worry about this space blanket thing, which depends on the aluminum coating to reflect the heat back. I carry a 9x12 ft. light plastic tarp, 100 ft. of parachute cord and a half dozen of those litle plastic gizmos that snap ono the tarp and let you attach a line wherever you want. That and my emergency fire kit will handle just about any situation.
Grizz

Grizz I think you've got it right. I carry a very large bag that I can cut open and use for a tarp or else a tarp. Depends on where I'm going. Some things are so small ie:space blanket that they just aren't much use. It makes me think of the tuna can survival kits they have. There's just enough stuff in them to allow you to think that you have a bit of safety....but when the chips are down you've put faith into something that's worthless. Kootenay has the right idea, carry as much stuff as you need to comfortably spend the night if necessary. I'm going on a road trip tomorrow, I'm carrying a lot of warm clothes for myself and a sleeping bag as well, you never know. As soon as fall rolls around the truck gets a shovel in the back and a set of chains and they stay there.

the chef

I take three things, no matter what:

8' x 10' sylnylon tarp....quality because you don't know how long you'll be there if the weather turns on you and help can't get to you....14oz.

100' of nylon net top line....super strong/lightweight.

Couple of road flares....will aggressively start a fire w/the wettest of wood....a bit on the heavy side but utterly reliable.

Joe

I bailed on the pocket film tarp years ago and went with the poly-tarp, with grommets, refelective on one side and green on the other. I sit on it, haul it up in between trees when it rains to take a break while hunting, and also use it to keep boned meat clean until it's bagged and lashed to the packframe. I've napped under it a few times on cold/windy mountains, but haven't had to do an overnighter thankfully.

Mine was purchased at a Army Surplus store and measures about 6 ft X 6 ft open, but only about 9 inches X 5 inches X 1/2 inche in the bottom of my pack. I've gone through two in about 12 years. - Bill

This is very interesting info., however, it tends to be not quite applicable to survival in really harsh, cold, wet conditions as both of these gentlemen are from warm climates. The orange trash bag, sit on your pack (or whatever), wear your extra clothing and eat your candybar type of "survival" teaching will not always equip someone to cope with being lost in northern B.C. at the end of hunting season, for example.

One of the things I have noticed about most hunters on this type of forum is that they very seldom seem to know much about survival. I had to laugh at a self-styled "bushman" on a Canadian forum who boasted that his entire survival kit fitted into a small can in his pocket; this type of ignorance can get you killed here, P.D.Q.

I do appreciate Mr. Kummerfeldt's pointing out the problems assosciated with injury or incapacitation by ambient conditions; most "experts" seem to assume that a lost hunter/hiker is perfectly robust and can set a jolly old snare, catch a bunny, light a fire with flint and steel and on and on, ad nauseum.

I carry an emergency kit everywhere I go away from my vehicle and it will keep me alive for days, even if I have a serious injury. I deliberately planned for this possibility and designed the kit and bought the contents accordingly. I have cheerfully trekked in some of the most remote, air access only parts of B.C. with my emerg. kit and the current gear I have is the best ever....it works.

If, one does not carry emergency gear, know how to use it and develop the mental attitudes/toughness to deal with being lost, hunting may not be the best sport for such a person. I will post my list of gear for this tomorrow, for anyone interested.

Geeeez Gary - lighten up!!

Not everyone who responds to your meticulously researched and evidenced postings intends launching Jihad against the mighty USA!!

I have enjoyed a 'discussion' or three with Kutenay and despite being a self confessed ornery sod - he knows of what he speaks - and deserves respect accordingly.

Recall if you will the phrase - 'there is more than one way to skin a cat.'

Whatever works - works. Period! There is NO one way to survive any incident - and whilst every thing PK says has merit - he is by the nature of his role, being forced to generalise.

Kutenay has established techniques which are specific to the area and climate he enjoys(?).

PK is providing advice to an audience who may be forced into a survival situation in any theatre.

How can there be any query as to whether one or the other is 'right'?

FWIW I agree with points made by both - the tobacco tin survival culture is all well and good - however carrying adequate general tools will ensure things get done a lot faster in many situations. Any preparation is better than none.

I still subscribe to the concept of three line equipment. Minimal kit (essential) carried on your person at ALL times. More complete equipment carried in a day pack when hunting/patrolling from a base. Third line held in your main ruck.

When the stuff hits the fan - it ensures you are always in a position to do something.

Friendly regards

IanF

No, Gary, I am NOT ...full of crap..., at least you didn't think so when you repeatedly asked my opinion on boots, among other things. You may not realize it, but , your all-too common attitude is why so many people worldwide dislike Americans. You completely misunderstood what I was trying to say and insulted someone, me, who has helped you repeatedly in the past.

As to Kummerfeldt's experience,he is not the only experienced voice in this discussion, I have 50 years experience in this in western Canada and have worked with the Canadian Forces Survival School, the Canadian Coast Guard, the B.C.Forest Service and the Alberta Forest Service, as well as private consulting firms, so, I didn't learn my skills from reading books.

As to environmental conditions, western and northern Canada ARE colder, wetter and far more remote than Alaska is; the population of the N.W.T. is a fraction of the size of that of Alaska and the rescue resources are miniscule relative to those in Alaska. I went to the N.W.T, FORTY years ago and have also visited Alaska; I have lived alone in the bush in these places for as long as three months without a break, maybe you have greater experience than I do, but, I fucking doubt it.

I did not make any derogatory remarks about Kummerfeldt, who is a "Kenyan" or any other "American". I never referred to him as an "American survivalist quack" as your use of quotations implies; this is a godam lie and you are a pretty sleazy character for saying this. If, you can fucking READ, I called him ...Mr. Kummerfeltd" AND stated how much I appreciated his opinions....BUT, orange trash bags CANNOT keep people alive in severe conditions for very long, AS those of us with actual field experience know.

Boy, it never fails, anytime a mere Canadian dares to disagree with an American "frontiersman" he is immediately attacked by some asshole suburbanite who thinks that he is Davy Crockett....must be the "Disneyworld" effect........

Survival gear s a very personal decision. None of the 7 pilots I supervise carry the same things. I standardize their equipment the best I can, but they are free to supplement it with what they feel will surve them best in an actual situation. Some are minimalist and others like to carry the kitchen sink with them. Lucky for the heavy extreme they don't fly our light helicopters.

The trash bags are only a part of a complete survival system you can adapt to your environment. I carry 2 because they fit into my flight/survival vest and I firmly believe what you don't carry in the vest you wear is purely camping gear that you may not have access to in a ditching/crash situation.

We underwent recurrent winter survival training last week. It was only -13 F, but very survivable. My trash bags were cut open and used over a dead fall, under pine boughs and snow to form my shelter since the actual snow cover is unusually sparse this year and using more of a true snow shelter was not an option. We all adapted and the trash bags turned out to be a handy piece of equipment in this situation.

I like the orange because it can be seen. I fly/pilot S&R in remote places here and anything you can passivly do to be seen by the air crew helps us a lot in finding you, especially if you are injured and not so quick to use other more labor intensive signaling means.

All the info you can use to adapt your equipment to your specific needs is of some value. Like most advice - Take with you what you can use and disregard the rest. I find that I evaluate my gear at least annually adding some things and taking out others. Methods, equipment, and technology change pretty fast and why not CONSIDER alternatives. They may be easier to carry, use, and potentially prolong your survival situation.

Good luck.

Mike

I'm not an expert, If I was I'd get paid more. Just my $.02 worth.

I have no dog in this fight.....a "heavy duty" trash bag could be helpful in the short term.....we use them in our camp in a cold water refrigerator to protect the meat and one in the pack for emergency rain gear in case you leave your primary raingear in camp.....up here, if you're caught up on the mountain w/o proper gear, and you try to get down off the mountain w/your trash bag rain coat, it will be shredd in the alders and willows before you hit the creek bottom.....as a shelter, in a high wind situation, it will fail miserably unless you just wrap yourself up in it or are completely out of the wind....they really offer few long term options.

If you want to use the trash bags, please do....everyone I know, that spends long periods of time in the bush, uses different items that they believe in. I personally know one person that, if you ask, will tell you his mylar space blanket got him through a very bad night in the bush and saved his life....I, for one, wouldn't rely on one....but that's just my opinion. I certainly wouldn't rely on a trash bag, no matter the mils of thickness, to survive in heavy weather....of course, that's my opinion, too.

Gary, thanks for the posts as it gives others info to glean more useful info from...

Joe

Hey guys! Let's lighten it up please! I appreciate all your info and advice so far, it looks like a lot of good onfo could be gotten in this thread.

Kutenay, I would be very interested in the list of your emergency gear.

Gary, there's a lot of good info to absorb from your links.

Mark

I carry a 6x8 blue tarp for shelter, and three trash bags. The trash bags are not for shelter, in my kit, but rather bedding. You can fill them with pine needles or broom straw, etc and make an effective bedding area to get you up off the ground a little. The earth will zap your body heat. I have a space blanket (the thin one) too, but have never had to use it.

For my money I'd take an 8x10 siltarp for survival anytime..

quote:

Originally posted by kutenay:
....I will post my list of gear for this tomorrow, for anyone interested.

Hey, it's past tomorrow, where's the list?

For a better alternative to the mylar space blanket is the Heatsheet. Good preliminary eval here AMK blanket

They are about 5 bucks or so and look better. I bought one at REI and haven't had a chance to rig anything up with it yet.

The trade off with emergency shelter is trying to balance what you need in an emergency vs what you are willing to carry. There is no one right answer for every climate and every trip. While an orange bag may be right for a 3 hour hike in a relatively small state park, a trek in another part of north america would dictate a 4 season tent and sub-zero rated sleeping bag.

Match your gear to the conditions.

quote:

For a better alternative to the mylar space blanket is the Heatsheet. Good preliminary eval here AMK blanket

That link also leads here http://www.land-shark.com/ Pretty neat, if a fella has a little more room in his kit.

I went to a lecture by Kummerfeldt and really enjoyed listening to his lecture.

I would also enjoy having a cup of coffee with Kutenay and learning what's in his pack.

As mentioned by another reader, 30 people can attend a lecture, read an article and build a pack that will be different from everyone else's base on their needs and background experience. While I'm close to Canada, I know I can be in trouble anywhere, anytime and want to be prepared. I believe I've read that most people die of hypothermia around 59 degrees.

I have the heaver tarp that I can tie off to tree as a shelter and tossed out my space blanket after it fell to pieces in my pack. I also carry a HWY flare after seeing one in action during a howling snowstorm we were caught in while elk hunting in Northern MT.

I also have a heavy orange plastic bag that weights nothing in my pack. I like it for a wind/rain proof shelter. I think it is 3x6 and cost about $5 at local sports store.

I did pick up a foam pad to sit on also. Sitting on the cold ground is not an option. Costs about $5 at walmart and weight is minimal.

I've only been lost once in a 500,000 state forest in Northern, MN. You could not see for more than 100 yds in any direction. Having a compass and trusting it got me out after about 4 hrs.

Quality gore tex hunting clothes are a must when outdoors. Your wearing your shelter!

Good luck with your pack.

Kutenay, I would like to see your list as well. PM me if possible with the list.